Is Nathan still one of the best Closers?

[Pig_sticka]

Well after all the talk about Nathan this Nathan that he has turned it around. Not sure exactly on his numbers but I know as of his last week he has 5 saves, yes in 7 days. He has a 0.00 ERA and a 0.40 Whip. Maybe we should trade this guy

The pitching staff is doing a great, and with Crain and Rincon setting up Nathan we have a very solid end of the innings. If our bats get going we will be a tough team to play for the next half of the season. Crain had the numbers this year to be a All-Star also. I know he is just a setup guy but he has done a great job and has helped the Twins stay up top the wild card race. Right now we just have to be looking out for the surging Yankees, if we stay ahead of them we will have the wild card. I actually wouldn't be suprised to see the Yankees taking over first in that division and have the Twins needing enough wins to beat out the Red Sox or Baltimore.

[Windy City Walleye Hunter]

Hey Pig,

It is very interesting that the Sox and Twins mirror each other this year. Nathan has what, 24 saves, and Hermanson has 21, both with low ERA's. Crain is 7-0 or 8-0 with a pretty low ERA and Cliff Pollite is 6-0 with a 1.00 ERA (not too bad for two middle relief guys) Garland and Buehrle have just been a tad better than Santana and the rest of the starters and their defense has been solid. I think our bats have been a little louder than the Twinks so far. I guess the Sox finally figured after playing long ball for 5 years that the way to beat the Twinks was to become them. Snagging AJ helped big time also, he really handles a pitching staff. Just got back from The Cell, went to tonight's game and it was a beauty. The Big Hurt sent a 3 run blast about 450 feet into the night to win the game. Twinks are still battling so I got to get back to mlb.

YOU CAN PUT IT ON THE BOARD...YES

[Pig_sticka]

Twins bats are doing horrible right now, and the sox keep getting the big hits. Mauer and Morneau should be the ones coming through but who knows where they have been. Mauer with the limited time he has played he is doing decent though. Morneau eh kinda nice he got put into like the 7th spot.

Otherwise I mostly wanted to let everyone know Nathan is back on track and the worries that he has lost it is gone. Nathan is by far a easier to watch than "everyday eddie".

I watched one of the games against KC where he came in and closed and I couldn't help but get pumped up when he came in, it was pretty crazy in the Metrodome with his entrance music and his strikeouts.

[knoppers]

Windy City Walleye Hunter

you are right about the season so far. I would like to see the twins and the sox make it, but of course the twins to win the pennant.

I think if morneau ever gets his bat going, it will help the rest of our hitters.

the twins have the best pitching in the majors, the stats say not, but they will at seasons end.

its interesting to see if the sox can keep up there great picthing this year, I think garland will fold, but that B dude looks good.

twins vs. sox for the pennant, that would be awesom. sorry yanks and red sox and angles, this is personal.

[fishyguy]

Well Pig, since no one else answered your question directly thanks to Windbag hijacking this into another Twins/White Sox comparison, I will give you what I got.

Nathan's stats are comparable to last year when he was dominant, except for ERA due to that bad 2 game stretch he had. He has converted 93% of his save opportunities and has 44 strikeouts in 36 innings. I would say he is still one of the best as long as that bad stretch was just a hiccup.

[pikehunter]

Pig, I think you touched on something that hasn't gotten nearly enough attention as the Twins have struggled a bit offensively: Mauer and Morneau's youth and inexperience. It's become glaringly obvious that this duo we put so much faith into to bring us to the next level just doesn't have enough experience to do so. Particularly Morneau, who also apparently hits like a rookie, but prefers to act like a 10-year veteran in the clubhouse, which ruffles some feathers. The entire lineup was built around Morneau and the fact that the hitters in front of him would see more fastballs. Instead, he's hitting seventh and pitchers just don't fear him.

Mauer has performed admirably for his age, but I think it's fair to say we might have expected a bit too much from the twosome. We've pointed alot of fingers at third, and the middle infield, but we knew we were not going to get a great deal of hitting from those positions. Morneau, however, we just expected so much more from. But, like was said earlier, if these two get how in the second half, we'll be set.

[riverrat56]

I'm not big into stats and all, but does someone have the stats on the twins pitching like runs given up, ERA, and quality starts vs the sox staff? Trying to get at the fact that if the twins staff had the soxs bats, the pitching stats would be crazy.

[Pig_sticka]

Post deleted by Pig_sticka

[Pig_sticka]

NAME G GS W L Sv Hld IP H ER HR BB SO K/9 P/GS WHIP ERA

Twins 5 5 1 4 1 1 43.0 45 21 9 4 26 5.44 1558.8 1.14 4.40

There is the pitching stats against the Sox. Doesn't look great in the Win-Loss department.

But one huge thing because the stats are all in favor of the Sox. Our bullpen has been lights out on the Sox. If you put Mulholland out of the mix we have a ZERO era. And even Mulholland has a 0.50 Whip and only gave up one run. So if the starters just do alittle bit the bullpen has crazy numbers against them.

[8-Ball]

Blew it today. Hung a 2-2 fastball right down the pipe to Sweeney. See ya!

[SledNeck]

Nathan as an all-star is a joke

[buzzsaw]

He looks like he's going to hyperventilate every time he is about to make a pitch. In his defense, Sweeney is a complete stud.

[TNFL]

Nathan is still leading the AL in saves. I agree with Buzz, if it not for all the guys on roids, Sweeney (who I don't think was on roids) would be one of the top players this century, 2000-present.

[PierBridge]

Quote:

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Nathan as an all-star is a joke

---

You must be confused....Did you mean Latroy Hawkins?

Nathan is very deserving as an ALL STAR that's why he's going to the big show.

[Pig_sticka]

Every closer blows saves, look at any pitcher in the majors. Compare his blown saves to his save total and he is doing pretty darn good. That is why there are hitters in the games getting paid millions. I could see if just the pitchers were getting paid then ok Nathan stinks haha. But there are guys like Pujols, Sexson, Jones, A-Rod, Sheffield(on n on n on n on) Not every guy is going to strikeout, not matter how great they are. If I could pick 3 guys in the whole majors to save for the Twins, Nathan would be one of them. Rivera, and Gagne(when he isn't injured) are the others.

[juggs]

I say ANY closer as an All-Star is a joke. Now every year there are more than one on each roster. Don't you think it strange that when Joe Nathan was with the Giants he was a nobody. Then the Twins make him a closer and he's a star. The same was true with Eddie G. and pretty much every other closer. They're all failed starters who can flourish only out of the bullpen. It's so much easier to build a season one inning at a time. Try going seven or eight every time out, facing the same guys three or four times and see how they do then. One inning to hold a three, two or one run lead is a joke. If a pitcher can't come in fresh and hold a team for one inning every time he isn't of much value. The save has become the most overhyped stat the game will ever see since the long forgotten game winning RBI. The "real" closers were guys like Gossage, Sutter, Fingers...who would come in in the seventh and finish the game. Still, I don't think any of those guys are Hall of Fame worthy simply because they didn't put in enough innings to make that much of an impact.

[buzzsaw]

Interesting! I guess since you put it that way Juggs I kind of agree.

[juggs]

In case you couldn't tell, I have a little chip on my shoulder when it comes to closers. Saves this, saves that. Nobody seems to think about what a save really is or means. It bugs me to see starters go 200+ innings (a whole lot more than that back in the day) for a season, then the Cy Young or MVP goes to somebody like Gagne. Then I get the dry heaves.

[pikehunter]

Well said Juggs. And I agree. There's a reason you put a hard-throwing guy without great stuff in that situation.

That said, getting out of your first inning of work scoreless seems like a miracle for any Twins pitcher lately!

[buzzsaw]

Juggs for President!!

[Windy City Walleye Hunter]

Juggs,

Unfortunatly, Closers are kind of like nuclear bombs, you would rather have one and not need it than need it and not have one. I too am old school baseball, and I think that today's game is drastically different and doesn't really need to be. Back in the day, there was a 4 man rotation and a starting pitcher was expected to finish what he started. Now the flavor of the month is pitch count, 5 man rotations, "get me to the 5th inning attitude, 6th, 7th, 8th and 9th inning specialists (remember the Astros before they broke up the trio). I remember back in the day when I watched a pitcher for the White Sox, Wilbur Wood, pitch both ends of a double header. Granted he was a knuckle-baller but he still was out there. I used to especially love watching him flutter that snake up there at around 58 mph for 7 or 8 innings and then bring in Goose Gossage to clean up the game at around 100 mph. That used to put a stain in the skivys of the batters. Anyway, I guess we have to take the game as it is today so we have to recognize specialist's even if they only pitch one inning, heck look at the last player picked for the American League, no homers, 17 RBI, batting around .289 and the only thing he does is steal bases. That's my two cents on the subject, let the second half begin! Windy

[juggs]

Thanks but no thanks, Buzz. I'm too politically incorrect. Amen, Windy. Especially about the game not having to be different. Heck, I remember the three man rotation. The old Milwaukee Braves had a saying, "Spahn and Sain and pray for rain," because they didn't have a good third starter. I believe if starting pitchers would throw more innings they wouldn't spend as much time on the DL. Nolan Ryan pitched something like 27 years throwing over 100 mph and spent hardly any time on the injured list. I looked up Cy Young's career numbers once and he had two, mind you, two seasons of over 400 innings and his career went on forever. That's the only way you can rack up over 500 career wins after all. There's no doubt starters have the best arms on the staff. Leave them in, I say and let relievers only be used when a starter tanks or doesn't have it.

[bigbucks]

I agree they're not necessarily the best pitchers on the staff, but then again, maybe they're a guy that couldn't give you that much as a starter, but coming in at the end can shorten a lot of games to help other starters. In essence they give a team a better chance of getting by with a little lesser starters. I think they're a product of the expanded league & a dillution of the talent pool, not to mention all the pumped up hitters.