Jake Vs. Tom

[Captain B.R.K]

So what is the difference?

[Munk]

They're both Toms, however a Jake is a juvenile. I've shot both and they both taste great!!!!!!

[Ray Esboldt]

Yep. The Jake is a bird hatched the previous spring. The middle feathers on their fan are about 3 inches longer than the rest. Plus, their beard is 3 to 5 inches long. Finally, the colors on their head don't seem to be as vibrant as a mature Tom's.

And, by golly, if a Jake walks by me ten minutes into my Wisconsin season on May 11th, I'll let him have it. Too late in the year to let a bird walk.

[BLACKJACK]

Its like the difference between shooting a six point buck or an older ten point buck, some people want to hold out for the older, bigger trophy, some people consider any turkey or deer a trophy. As long as you consider it special, shoot whatever size makes you happy. Good luck.

[30 inch eyes]

the jakes are sure lighter to carry a long way out of the woods!

[Hotspotter]

Do consider that this year's jake is next year's tom, especially if you tend to hunt the same areas year after year. I'm not against killing jakes, though i choose not to if i have a few days left in my season, or if i'm hunting an area i'll be in the next year.

Last year, a buddy passed up 3 jakes. This morning, in the same spot, I called in a 24 1/2 lb.er with 1/2" spurs (last year's jake). Was it one of the ones he passed on? We'll never know, but it could be!

Joel

[Ray Esboldt]

jnelson,

I'll agree with you on the take a jake, let him walk theory to an extent. I like turkey hunting more than any other outdoor activity I participate in. I enjoy every aspect of it, including those long birdless periods. So, by no means do I want to jeopardize my future hunts. However, one tom can fertilize quite a few hens. Sure, they get old and die, but odds are good there's at least one if not a dozen younger toms waiting to take his place. I don't think bumping off one jake will jeopardize my future hunts, at least in the areas I hunt.

I figure on average I have one good chance to kill a bird a season. An early period hunt, I would pass. Period 5 in Wisconsin, I probably will shoot. What I'm saying is that odds of that one good encounter go down throughout the year.

Now, I've already killed a bird this year, so I'll probably ask myself the question again. Would I kill a jake the first day or not if the opportunity arose? I don't know the answer yet.

[Hotspotter]

Ray:

Well-put. I agree, in the areas i hunt too, taking a jake probably won't affect my next year's hunt; but it might. Moreso if you have a group of guys that all take jakes, or surrounding properties where people take the first thing. Like you said, the birdless periods are great too. "Opening Day" for me is around the fishing opener, but not necessarily if you know what I mean. Knowing how much excitement it brings makes me wonder why people would end their hunt so soon with the first jake that walks into range. But i understand. Work, family, etc. can meddle with your season. And it just comes down to a personal decision.

And lemme tell you, after 3-4 days of tough hunting with not much gobbling, rain, and all the rest, you can bet i'd take a jake. Isn't it the best when one comes in, and you're STILL trying to decide? That's excitement for you. Not only are you fighting to get him into range/position, you're fighting with yourself over whether or not to take him! I enjoy that aspect of it, and would never be disappointed in that decision.

Good luck in WI! Let me know how you do.

Joel

[Ray Esboldt]

I also think the more times I hunt, the more places I go, and ultimately the more birds I bag will eventually influence this decision. 5 years from now, I'm sure I'll look at the Jake or no-Jake decision differently.

[NELS-BELLS]

What is a legal Jake...minimum of 1" beard?

[brittman]

Passed on at least three jakes today. Two of them I could have grabbed with my hand, but the gobbler was right below the ridge behind them. Their "putting" sent everything scrambling down hill and away.

Yep I have shot a few jakes, not none in the passed few years. I liked to compare it too the spike buck passing under your stand - some shoot - others let it pass.

[Hotspotter]

Nels:

The turkey regs state:

The bag limit for the spring hunt is one (1) wild turkey with a visible beard.

So I guess as long as it's visible? Beards can be hard to see, but I've never seen one shorter than an inch and a half or two inches.

Joel

[brittman]

Seen plenty of jakes up close with no visible beard. The bright red head gives them away everytime.

[Hotspotter]

If I'm not mistaken, some red-headed birds can be hens. I could be wrong. Almost always they'll have the small greyish head, but I've been told and have seen red-headed birds without visible beards as well. My neighbor claims to have shot a hen this way. Bright red head, no beard at all. Yet I don't know how to tell, and I know he doesn't know, by looking between their legs.

And I've seen jakes with no "visible" beard, until shot. Then, somewhat buried in the breast feathers is a stubby little one and a half incher.

As a general rule, don't shoot unless you see beard. But can someone clear up the confusion?

Joel

[brittman]

I have watched these jakes go from blue-gray heads to bright red as they became charge up to my calling. You can also see that these birds have major caruncles (knobs at the base of the neck) - just like the Toms do, only smaller.

I have also had a jake with no beard gooble in front of me.

I rarely use a decoy in MN, but a few years ago I was hunting out of MN. I had five jakes and a Tom come into my field. Two jakes came in and attacked my jake decoy. I was laying prone just 10 feet away. One jake had a beard, one did not. The jake with beard returned to MN as part of a 2 bird limit.

Jake with out a beard in not legal. Hen with a beard is legal.

[brittman]

You can also see that a jake will have little buttons or even depressions on each leg where the spurs will grow.

Hens (to my knowledge) may occasionally have a beard, but do not have spurs.

The uneven tail feather fan described above is another good indication.

Maybe your neighbor was seeing red when he decided to pull the trigger. Some hens certainly have pink heads, but I have not seen a hen with a bright cardinal red head.

[brittman]

OK one last post.

Here is the NWTF page detailing the differences between the gobbler and hen.

http://www.nwtf.org/all_about_turkeys/

[bigbucks]

I hear you on the short bearded jake thing. My first turkey, which I shot last year. I was going to say had a 1" beard, but it might be 1 1/2, it's pretty short. We've been hunting where there aren't that many birds & believe me any legal bird we're considering a trophy. My cousin got a jake this morning, that was with another one & in 1 1/2 days of hunting those were birds 2 & 3 that we saw & the other we think was a hen we saw from the road while driving to another spot.

We're still learning & think it's fun, but at this point I'm certainly not willing to dedicate 5 solid days to hunting them. Vacation is limited, just as are "play days" away from the family. I'd rather bowhunt or fish walleyes. Maybe as there gets to be more birds in the area that will change, although I doubt it.

[Captain B.R.K]

Wow- I didn't know this would bring some much chatter....great!

I asked because when you see one male turkey, guys say "ah that's a jake or that one's a tom." Posing the question what is the different between a Jake vs. Tom.

My turkey I got this year was 19.2lbs w/ a 8" beard and don't know the size of the spurs. Did I shot a tom ?

It's interesting to see toms of various sizes from mine (19.2lbs) all the way up to 25-56lbs. I shouldn't be ashamed I don't think with taking a little lighter weight turkey. BUT then again who's to say there is an average size for a turkey

Thanks all for the response!

[Fishook]

If you are looking for the best eating turkey, a jake is hard to beat. Generally, a jake will likely weigh in the 10-14 lb. range. While there are always exceptions, I can not believe someone bagged a 56 lb turkey (unless it was white and in a pen). I have seen a couple of 28 pounders here in Iowa. My point, nothing wrong with your 19.2 which is, most likely a two year old bird. Another way to differentiate a jake is by their gobble. You will know when you hear one because they are trying so hard but just can't quite get it out correctly. It will make you laugh but don't move too much - there could be a big tom right behind you!

[Nova]

Captain, that is a fine bird. almost certainly not a jake. It's not all that light of a bird either...when those boys get to breeding they burn a lot of fat...could have been a 24 pounder at the start of breeding and he is just very active. Congrats on your TOM.

[Ray Esboldt]

Brandon,

That ain't no Jake you shot. That's a darn good bird.

I am sure the more experienced eye could have told me, but the 20 lb. pound bird I shot didn't look any bigger or smaller than any other Tom I've seen. There was no way I would have passed on my bird or yours.

Despite all the talk about Jakes vs. Toms, if it has a beard, it's certainly worth putting the bead on the base of its neck. Now, thanks to JNelson, I'll have to think about pulling the trigger on a little guy.

[kingr]

I don't think you can classify Jakes & Toms by weight though. For instance, my cousin shot a 19# bird with a 4" beard and numbins for spurs this year. That to me is a jake that found someones bird feeder over the winter!!

I shot my first bird this year which was a jake, and I'm very proud of myself. My first time out and I bagged one... but now that I've experienced the rush of calling one in will I shoot a jake next time? Probably not, because I really debated shooting this guy, but who knows! Just think to yourself before pulling the trigger, am i going to be proud to tell the story of your hunt if I shoot this animal. If the answer is yes.....bang!!!

[Hotspotter]

Ray, you better drop the hammer on the first legal bird you see, or I'm going to be owing you a case of beer, and feeling bad about it!

BRK - As Ronnie "Cuz" Strickland from Mossy Oak put it: "Only a d***** fool passes up a longbeard." I talk to guys all the time about how they saw a "huge" turkey in the field, a certified 30 lber. And i've seen big turkeys too. But the best way to judge weight on a turkey is with a scale when they're dead. Now, you can compare birds standing next to each other, and judge relative size, but I have yet to meet a turkey hunter that can look at a lone tom in the field and say he's a 25 lber. And i have friends that pass on "smaller" toms to get "the big tom" they've been seeing. I think it's a bunch of nonsense myself for a few reasons:

A) Never look a gift turkey in the mouth

They pass up a 24 lber walking, because they see a 20 lber strutting....it looked bigger!

C) Why turn it into deer hunting with B&C, and P&Y and 180's class this and that?

D) Field judging birds is just plain difficult unless within close distances (<20 yards) for long periods of time with other birds to judge against.

Just my opinion on that one....

Joel

[TomBow]

My first bow bird was taken this year in Nebraska. It was a Jake, 1.5" beard, 1/8"(?) spurs, ok "nubs" and was very red as were the other 4 jakes in the bunch that came in together. As soon as the bird was dead, the red ran out of his wattles. My buddy asked me if he was a hen because of the non-red head on the dead bird. The beard was hard to see because it was close to the length of his chest feathers, but I could see it when he was coming in so I knew it was a legal beard. Wattles should tell the tale on sex identification, I've never seen a hen with Wattles, just a small skin flap under the chin.

As far as weight? I shot a bird 6 days after my wife's bird, last year. The beard and spurs were nearly identical in length, her bird weighed 20 pounds field dress and mine weighed 16 pounds field dressed. Based on this, I'd say there's a large range of weights in similar aged birds. On age, I'd say spur length will indicate whether it's a jake or a TOM, but beyond 2 yrs of age, can you tell the actual age between a 2 yr old and a 3+ year-old bird? Beard length should be less of an indicator of age because beards can be damaged by "beard rot" or being frozen and broken off. Hey, dat's just me 3/4ths of a cent, figured I'd throw in to this discussion. Best of Luck. My wife and I start chasing birds on Sunday and WE CAN'T WAIT!!!