Trolling for Muskies??

[EYEHUNTER10]

I am very new to muskies, but rather a die hard walleye angler. I had a few skis almost to the boat last year trolling jumbo leeches in deep water. I also had a follow when I had a big slab crappie on my shallow shad rap and had a muskie explode on the crappie at least 4-5 times bringing the crappie into the boat anybody have a method for trolling for muskies with cranks, or bottom/bouncers lindys?? Is there anybody who prefers to troll for them versus casting?? I will be trying Miltona, lobster, and oscar this year.

[scsavre]

When I was younger I used to troll but these days I pprefer to cast. Sometimes I troll after dark or if it's too cold to hold onto my rod.

Trolling seems to take away from the hunt. I like to get a follow and come back to it later, and strategize. It seems with trolling you just don't have as many options. And it's hard to use my favorite type of bait trolling TOPWATER. Even though I did see a guy trolling a topraider before.

I used trolling when I was young to find spots. Now that I know how to read a map and locate spots from that I prefer to chuck baits.

I sometimes get mad a trollers though. It seems like at times I'll get a real active follow and I;ll give the fish a break to come back to later. And some guy trolling will pull right up ontop of the fish and just go in citcles over and over again. I usually don't see that fish again.

Whatever works though thera are many people who do good trolling.

[guideman]

Trolling is for Girls!!!

"Ace"

[scsavre]

Right on. Thanks, I just didn't want to offend anyone.

[Fisher Dave]

I never got into trolling for muskies anymore than moving from one location to another on electric motor only lakes... BUT...

When I lived in Pennsylvania I learned that this was the primary way for people to fish them, including New York. I learned some of the methods from one of the officials from Muskies Inc in that area. He was very informative, and it was interesting to say the least.. especially considering the number of fish per outing they caught.

He described in depth the presentations they use on Pymatuning reservoir. This is a huge reservoir with a 10 hp motor restriction. They were real big on Bagleys 8" lures, some huge spoons, super shads, and a couple other cranks that have escaped me. They rigger with 120# test and extremely heavy rods and basicly trolled *wide open*(10hp limit) which translated to an average of 11 mph(on plane) on a light 16' boat(his words exactly). On that particular reservoir, 10 fish days were not uncommon at all, and I was told other numbers that I really have a hard time believeing.. but either way the source was reliable, and it was obviously effective with the numbers of boats out doing it.

Wheather you cast, troll, or pounce on it and do an alligator roll to catch it, a 50" muskie is still a big fish.

[TBone1]

I Believe.... Trolling is like road hunting, just my opinion though.

[castmaster]

to be consistently successfull trolling for muskies (or any species for that matter) takes as much skill as casting does. it is not the "easy" road some make it out to be. it takes great knowledge of where lures run, including at different speeds, and with varying amounts of line out. it takes as much knowledge about the structure being fished. there is alot more to it than simply driving around the lake!!

that being said, i still cast 85% of the time!

[Muddog]

I'm with castmaster on this one. I think the troller has a far better idea of what is going on on a given body of water. Schools of Crappies, bait fish, drop offs they all go under your boat at some time. With a GPS you know the lake like your back yard.

By the way the fish are on the out side points that face the wind today with the Bass on top in 10' of water and the Muskellunge on the points in 15'.

Ask a Troller. The statment above sounds like just a day on the water.

[scsavre]

I have a very hard time believing that someone trolling would know a lake better then someone casting.

I'd say that would likely depend on the fisherman.

I do know however that when I did troll I sure didn't take half as much info into account. When I am casting I know some lakes and some spots so good that when I see a certain rock or weed clump or any other marker I know that I have to turn left or cast 20 feet back or whatever. I have a couple of spots that when I see a special large rock with a couple of clumps of weed next to it I know that I am on my spot on top of a spot. Spots like this are where I catch half my fish each year. These spots have taken years to find, and there are many more out there. I never found any spots like this while trolling, and I am pretty good at understanding my electronics.

There is a time to do each I know. I just haven't run into the talented trollers yet.

Maybee I'll troll on the opener this year so I won't get tired or sore.

[Fisher Dave]

I didnt make my post trying to direct everyone to troll, I was simply stating that some people are very effective with that tecnique. It makes perfect sense to have some people out there with an extensive knowledge of trolling muskies.. because thats what everyone does in that area.. The exact opposite is here, everyone cast that is serious about muskie fishing, then again, theres a few that are serious and float a lot of live bait... There are pro's and con's to everything, not trying to start a debate, I'm just making the comment that there are different ways to entice the same specie of fish, and all can be very effective to the person who puts in the time to perfect it.

Myself, I dont fish muskies as avidly as I used to.. I used to hit the water hard day and night chasing these frustrating critters.. In time I started to go back to many of the old species I used to fish, and started spending more time chasing others.. I catch more muskies trolling shad raps these days than I do intentionally fishing for them... this really hightened my thought on the trolling when the subject was brought up.. I know muskies(of all sizes) love my #9 shad raps when I'm hunting walleyes on certain inner city lakes... why shouldnt I figure out a way to kick up the speed and upgrade the bait, or the same bait fished faster? Many of my fish come when I up the speed on the trolling motor to jump from one spot to the next... the 4 mph mark has tied me into many muskies by accident.

[RK]

Hiya,

I'm with Castmaster on this one. I'd prefer to cast, just because of all the fun stuff muskies do that you get to see, but there's definitely a time and place to troll. Sometimes it's the absolute most effective way to catch the things. Maybe just me, but if it's a choice between casting the water to a froth for little results, or trolling up a 3-4 fish day, fire up the kicker man...

On some bodies of water, at certain times of year, trolling's the way to go. Just depends. I troll open water quite a bit, throughout the season, and will troll a lot in the fall depending on where I'm at. Trolling can be every bit as precise and technical as casting if you're thinking about what you're doing, or it can be as totally mindless as blindly casting a shoreline if you're not. Just depends on how you go about it.

Don't know that I can say trollers know more about the lakes than casters, but I can say for sure that I've found many, many good casting spots while trolling. Cover a lot of ground, and keep your eyes open, and you'll learn an awful lot...

Cheers,

RK

[Muddog]

Ok.

I don't Know how much you know of trolling but i'll try.

First Use large lures. Supper Shad Raps, Spoons, what ever.

Start shallow and work deep. Find an area to work, be it a bay, under water Island or Bars. Start your troll near the out side edge of the weed line, you may see some inside turns in the weed line you may want to cast later. Troll to the end of the given area. Turn around and troll the same depth back. You would be supprised how often the fish will only hit if your; say, going east or north and not west or south. Now cast the pockets. Nothing? Move 5 feet deeper. Do the same thing. As you start moveing deeper you will find the,(Lets say 15'depth) will start to zig-zag. If you have a GPS make sure your leaving a trail. Stay at 15' as well as you can do this to the end of your trolling area. turn around and head back. This time play connect the dot with the inside turns and going over the humps. If your lure is not hitting bottom let out more line or find a lure that will hit bottom across the humps. When you get to the end you turn around and start back all over again. Work your way out in steps ending up with trolling the outside turns of the points.

Hopefully you were watching your depth finder also at this time looking for "Structure on Structure" and marking them with waypoint. If no hits or runs, go work the waypoints. If you had hits and no runs go work those area change color or lure. If nothing at all work another area. Not just any area. If you were just working the up wind side of the lake pick an area on the down wind side of the lake. Start all over again. Troll the area with drop-offs. then troll the area with a flat that starts in 3' of water and ends up in 20' of water 300yrds out. GPS on and Mapping.

This all takes time but if you pick up a fish at area #3 in 12' of water on a hump near the outside bend on the up wind side of the lake. You just made the lake 80% smaller. Just play connect the dot with all the spot like it. When you find the honey hole cast cast cast.

Or you can look for all the other boat and join in. It's up to you.

After a few years of this and good notes you will find out just how much the wind has to do with fish location.

Try using a bait that will fall to the bottom on the inside turns of the boat then picks up and gos the other direction of the end of the turn. This will get follower to strike also. Long rods and a zig-zag path will also work. Pump your rod, again a long rod works well for this, like a 8'-10' down rigger rod. With a spoon or bucktail hold the rod tip up for awhile then let the rod tip drop. A spoon flutering down and taking off again is just to much for the poor fish to handle, again a long rod for this.

Never troll in a straight line at one speed with out some pumping or lifting. You wouldn't cast and reel in at one speed all day would you?

[Fisher Dave]

Mud Dog... that is an awesome definition on proper trolling tecniques.. that is worthy of an article in itself.

I do LOTS of trolling, often time its for weedy walleyes... that would explain to you why I hit so many muskies doing it.. they share the same habitat. I occasionaly troll for large pike also, but most the time its to get the rider into some fish.. you know how it goes when there is a less than avid fisherman/woman in the boat.

I have a bad right shoulder so my heavy casting days are over.. much of my fishing has hit a transition into trolling when its effective, otherwise its a less brutal presentation.. jigging, rigging, etc.

I'm just trying to reason within my mind if I should pick up trolling for muskies. A couple hundred dollars worth of lures to properly suit the purpose(still have rods), and a serious upgrade on the trolling motor to achieve a reasonable speed on my small boat for the trolling motor only lakes... Its a good question whether the additional success would justify the upgrades... might be the best thing that ever happened, might just be another tacle box and a really powerful trolling motor for future use.

Who Knows.

I might have to give this a try on Tonka and see what I can do... doesnt hurt to try with what I have now.. the outboard will suit just fine... when the season opens.

[delmuts]

good info mudddog

[scsavre]

Wow you guys sound like the real deal. good info Muddogg you should put that in a mag.

Using your gps is a great idea. I putting mine on tracking mode sometimes when casting. I always use it if I troll at night.

Any know why trolling is illegal in most Wisc. lakes. Atleast I think it is.

[markkstanley]

Fisher Dave, I haved trolled Tonka a lot. You can get by with some 2 to 3oz spinnerbaits, a Top Raider, a Big Jake and maybe a Suick. Yes you can troll topwaters and jerks and they are deadly. Pump the jerkbaits as you troll just like you would casting. S turns with topwaters over the weeds. Spinnerbaits work everywhere. You can replicate a cast with a trolling motor on almost any lure and the beauty is the lure is always running in the strike zone. The only thing you will miss is seeing follows but you will catch more fish on average than casting. Like Mudd mentioned you will eventually pickup some spots on spots that you would want to throw a cast or two at. Muskies are not bothered by motors either. I have caught a fair number 20ft back in the prop wash. Like you I can't cast all day any more but after several years of working on trolling techniques there isn't any action I can't replicate trolling. Well, vertical jigging openings in the weeds can't be done trolling but that isn't casting either. No offense to the casting crowd but trolling can be even more exact than casting and takes a lot more thought than you think. It is also very effective. Everything has it place and time. I mean some guys like golfing better than fishing. Go figure.

[Muddog]

Thank you. Your to kind.

When I was younger I studyed some of the best trollers around and read all of the works of great trollers like E.L."Buck" Perry and Carl Malz. In fact Buck Perry coined the word Structure. He invented the spoonplug and came up with a trolling style called spoonpluging. Most of what I wrote above I learned from Carl, Buck and My Dad. They all let me know that if someone said the fish are biteing on lake so and so, your already to late. 90% of the fish are in 10% of the water and it keeps moving. When it comes to open water fishing casting is just to slow to cover the amount of water you need to to find that 10%.

So now when I say I'm going fishing at lake So and So and someone asks. Are the fish biting there? I just say; I don't know. I haven't been there yet.

Some people here do not like trolling?

How do you find the fish when you go to a new lake? You can't see or hear the fish, so how do you start? If the fish arn't in the weeds what do you do? I would like to hear from some of you on this because I have no idea of how you do it.

For me I look at lake maps and on some lake maps I say to myself, Wow! Next good wind from this direction I have to work this bay. Then I buy the map. Kind of like a new game board. To me that is what fishing is all about. I can't say I crack the code to all lakes I fish but I'm dam sure going to try.

Well good luck to all on opening day and don't keep more then you'll eat.

[guideman]

Breaking down a lake without trolling is a simple matter of reading a map and knowing your quary.

You look for places that should hold fish and you go fish them. Nobody here is slaming trollers, I for one, just find it way to boring.

I also can't agree that a troller can replicate a caster, when it comes to presenting lures to the fish. Sure you can pull topwaters and jerks, but you can't fish where your boat won't go. Pockets close to shore, laydowns, shallow boulders, wood and a host of other complicated structures remain the domain of the caster and they all hold fish.

I have had some great days trolling however, I'll only do it when it's the only thing that works. I

also have a great deal of respect for guys that do their homework, and make trolling an effective

tool in their arsenal.

"Ace"

[tonyjor]

Now what's REAL fun is to get an avid lindy-rig troller (my boss/friend) and an avid crankbait caster(myself) together in the same boat and trying to work it out. Makes for a lot of lure switching for running at different depths.

[scsavre]

Guideman those are some good points,

actually everyone has had some good points.

One thing that goes with what guideman was saying about some spots you just can't troll. That is very true with alot of the fishing that I do in the Bemidji area.

In that area just like many other areas in northern MN the fish will actually move all the way into the Bullrushes in the fall. Catching these fish would be impossible in this 2-5 week span. I already have a limited amount of baits that I can cast in there.

I'm going to preampt this next reply. Yes I have tried casting and trolling the outside edge and drop off out from the reeds.

These methods will work prior to this transition but not while in those reeds.

And yes I will preempt again. No not all of the fish are in this part of the lake, there are deffinately other spots that yeild me many fish durring fall. However most of this spot is less than 6 feet deep. Still hard to troll. I caught over 25 legal muskies in the fall in these areas. Thats almost half my total # from last tear. Im not sure how else I could have gotten them.

I really don't see many people trolling in the Bemidji Area (best muskie fishing anywhere).

However my other home area Detroit Lakes I see more trollers then casters. And from what I hear they do very well.

As far as going out on a lake for the first time. I would almost think it would be opposite. If you troll all day or weekend and don;t catch. How does that help you locate fish. When I fish a lake for the frst time Im sure I read and study the same info and find spots just the same as trollers. The only thing is I hopefully get follows. Fish to go back to. Now spots that I know there are fish at.

I guess the real trick is mastering both. I usually get an extra 2 boated each year trolling. Maybe this year I can build off that.

[I'llTakeWhatiCanGet]

Quote:

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Any know why trolling is illegal in most Wisc. lakes. Atleast I think it is.

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Correct me if I'm wrong fellas, but I believe that its only the Class A musky lakes in WI that trolling is prohibited on. I couldn't tell you exactly why, but I would probably guess that it has something to do with the long-held perception of trolling that is being discussed here- that it is 'the easy way out.' I would imagine that trollers who really know they're sh*t can bring a lot of fish to the boat, but so can those who know just as much about casting. Is it possible that the law is still in place from years ago, before casting equipment and tackle was as advanced as it is today? It seems that most record fish from those days were caught trolling (ie Louis Spray, etc.), but those were also the days when it was common to pop a fish with a handgun when it got close to the boat . Maybe its just an outdated law, or maybe there's more rationale behind it. Anyone want to weigh in on this? I'm kinda curious now too

[markkstanley]

Most Wisconsin Class A lakes ban trolling - not all. Grindstone comes to mind where you really don't have a shot at fish if you don't troll since it is so deep and clear. Trolling was banned because it was deemed too damaging to musky numbers. Most guys back then trolled live bait and the kill rate was huge. And it was productive for those who dragged iron. I am old enough to remember the old guys row trolling. That was a very effective way to fish. Wisconsin is now considering allowing trolling on a number of currently banned waters since CPR has caught on.

And yes I do cast shallow laydowns, rock points and other small shallow or confined areas. But if I am fishing a deep weed edge or weed flat I troll. I think you have to become good at both to be really effective.

One issue that hasn't been raised is trolling in the dog days of summer. I think you can stress the fish too much and you have to be very careful. If I do troll it is with less than 50ft of line out and I back the boat down to the fish pronto to shorten the fight and the stress on the fish. I do the same casting by using the trolling motor. But trolling in high water temps can put more stress on the fish that casting will. So if you are able to please cast in late July and August. My two cents there.

[scsavre]

Motor trolling is trailering a lur, bait,or similar device used to attract fish from a boat being propelled forward or backwards by motor or sail.

Barron county permitted.

Bayfield permitted.

Brown and Buffalo some lake permitted.

Burnett permitted. Polk, Racine, Richland, Rusk, Taylor, Walworth, Washburn.

Other then that some counties allow it in some lakes only.

It says it is illegal if it doesn't state promitted. There are alot of lakes that don't say promitted.

Another question can you troll in certain tournaments.

[Muddog]

Just to throw in a reminder. With the spread of Eurasian Watermilfoil at the pace in which it is going, in 20 years it will be imposable to troll.

Save a Troller. Check your boat at the landing.

[Muddog]

When you are Trolling properly. The main thing you are doing is eliminating unproductive water.

One thing I would be interested in is; Do any of you let the wind decide where you will fish.

When making trolling passes into an area where I've taken fish or a hit and miss I able am to get a big picture of an area. As the years go by and the fish are landed the more the wind seem to have a bigger role. I'm not saying you need wind I'm saying on the days when the fish seem to be jumping into the boat the wind has blown the boat 50yds off the spot before the fish is at boat side. I'm saying fish here not just Muskies.

Have any of you ever had this happen or notice this.