Extend Firearms Season in MN ......huh???

[WB make the CUT]

This sounds like a great idea.

Thoughts

[30 inch eyes]

I think it bites!

[Fall Morning Fanatic]

If you are speaking about the possible October season, then I would have to respectfully disagree.

That would be a terrible idea in my mind. First of all you would destroy the season for Bow hunters and drive nearly all of the bucks into a nocturnal pattern.Many of them are already.2nd these deer would be so skittish when the regular firearms season came around, that kill numbers would probably go down.3rd with many of the farmers crops still in the fields these deer would just hide out in the corn. Then many of our unethical hunters would drive farmers standing corn fields without permission and iritate the farmers. who would in turn not allow many of the hunters that they might normally allow hunting,Which in turn would again not reach kill levels that the DNR is looking for.

Now if you are speaking about an extension of the regular gun season then it may be a good idea. If they ad a day or so the each zone.

The best way for the DNR to control the amount of deer in this state is to REQUIRE that a doe be shot before a hunter can apply for a buck tag. Theie current system is backwards.And does not do anything for the deer herd, let alone the quality of bucks we have in this state.

But that's just my humble opinion.

fmf

[lawdog]

I have not heard of the proposal. What is being discussed?

I will say from many years of experience in Wisconsin since the inception of the October "T" zone hunt, we've quite frankly noticed no difference in the normal November hunt. A lot of self proclaimed experts pronounced it would ruin hunting, but they based this on nothing and they were wrong plain and simple. I do think earn-a-buck is the way to go in the badly overpopulated areas though. It wouldn't make any sense in areas such as here however, where we aren't overpopulated. The problem then becomes if you require it in some places and not in others will hunters move around to avoid it? I don't know, they'd still need a spot to hunt and I bet most wouldn't have one...

And, as a side note, if you think you can't kill a buck after guys were out chasing does in October, check out my avator which shows pretty well that isn't true!!!

[Riverratpete]

I'll throw my 2 cents in. I don't really think they need to move into the October season - leave it for the archers. What they need to do is extend the rifle season through the month of November into December until almost x-mas (Archery - 2 mos) (gun - 2 mos) 1. It'll spread out the people more. 2. they kill more deer 3. may make a better hunting experience for everyone. I like the way they currently have the lic set up with the bonus tags and whatnot so they don't have to dink with that.

[WB make the CUT]

If you are speaking about the possible October season, then I would have to respectfully disagree.

FMF I was being sarcastic. By the way cool nic, alot a good points in your post.

[Mark Christianson]

I think it stinks.

One reason is that I dont really feel like sitting in my duck blind in camo in mid October, and have people in nearby woodlots lofting bullets at deer.

Where I do most of my duck hunting, it is a lot of woodlots with water holes smattered throughout the area. Great for ducks and deer, and surely to cause some issues.

[WB make the CUT]

Lawdog

DNR: Early antlerless deer season possible

You can read about it at the Outdoor news web sight.

[lawdog]

Thanks WB, I'll go check that out...

[WB make the CUT]

What we need is a good old douse of Mother nature.

Whats going to happen when we have all the special hunts that someone formulates, we go out and kill, bambi, and here mom, and then get blasted with a real winter.

[lawdog]

I read the story now and it is basically the same as the T-zone and like I said earlier, we really haven't noticed ANY difference in the hunting in Wisc since T-zone came to our area a few years ago. There is talk we may even go to earn a buck there next year, several areas of Wisc. did this year already.

The issue with the weather, they kind of address in the article too because if they can change this by DNR rule, they can undue it if weather dictates.

[Fall Morning Fanatic]

WB,

Sorry about that. I did not know that you were kidding and kind of let go a little.

Lawdog, I agree with you that over population is not a problem in many areas of our state,heck many would agree that that there aren't enough deer. However you look at it, an earn-a-buck system would be a good way to help get the deer levels in most areas to what the DNR feels managable.

The problem is with many of the hunters in this state.They go out every year boasting of shooting the almighty 10 pointer. Then they shoot the first antlered deer that walks by, even if 19 does had already crossed his sights.Then they go back to work on Monday and brag up and down about how they "GOT THEIR BUCK". I can't honestly blame them because that's how it's done here in Minnesota. And the state has done nothing over the years to change it, or to help hunters recognize that they would actually have an opportunity to harvest that 10 pointer if they shot a doe this year and let that little 4 pointer walk by.

If there were a rule that forces you to take a doe. We be talking about turkey season right now.

Now having said all of that I will admit that I am a bowhunter, so that is why I am so biased. And am scared at what the extra pressure in my area would do to my hunting area. I get alot of treaspassers and cannot be there 24/7

Sorry guys had to vent.

FMF

[WB make the CUT]

I need some help on why some think earn a buck is a bad thing?

[lawdog]

The complaints I've heard about it are a couple different things:

1: I only want one deer. Some people just don't need the extra meat and I guess they don't support the food shelf donation type programs. They of course though still want to kill their buck. Even if its a forky they really think its better?!?!?!?!

2: I don't get to hunt enough to pass up a buck. This one actually effects me in Wisc. I'm there for the opening weekend and have to leave Monday to get back to work. I will hate having to pass a nice buck if I haven't shot a doe yet because in two days hunting I may only get one chance. But I will do it and won't b#$ch if that's the law and its what's good for the deer. Just really hurts when you are paying that hefty out of state license and might have to let him go too...

3: The old standby, "You can't tell me how to hunt or what I can kill.": I love this one. Its total talk and has ZERO influence but some guy's bring it out EVERY time someone talks about a rule change just to show their ignorance I guess.

[tripper]

Not that I am against earn a buck but it would put a crimp in the hunting in our little area. All though the fields around the area we hunt are full of does and fawns in the fall 8 out of 10 deer we see come rifle season are bucks of all ages and size. We know meny of the people that live and hunt around us and they are saying the same thing and wondering were all the does go. I know some of you wish you had this proublem to.lol But hey we would like to take some of them does out.

The problem with a lot of these rules is that we all tend to come up with the ideas because of what it is like in the area we hunt or what we personaly want out of the hunt without knowing or understanding how it may affect the other guy a few miles down the road.

I see some of the reasons lawdag listed as legit if you take the time to think about the other guy.

1. Some people I know only hunt for a big buck and it is the only deer they want. An earn a buck rule would force them into shooting somthing they don't want in the first place before they could go after the big one. Now what do they do with the deer they don't want? Not all food shelf area's are set up to take deer. Here again you are thinking in terms of what can be done if you live in the cities.

2. I don't get enough time hunting. For meny this is most likely true. I think if you did a study that you would find most MN. hunters only hunt MN. For one reason or another they can not go out of state to do any hunting or maybe they chose to keep the $ they spend on hunting in state.

3. As I said I know people that hunt only big bucks now you want to force them into shooting something they don't want and may not be able to give away. Now the guy is stuck with meat he didn't wantbecause he will only eat one deer a year and out being able to go after that big buck.

Lawdog I do not think these people would like being called ignorant just because they already do what you want to do but don't seem to have the same savey for finding big bucks.

[BLACKJACK]

I'm against an early doe season for several reasons:

1) I think you'd end up still getting some small bucks shot and left to rot ("I didn't see any horns") or big trophy bucks shot/poached because a hunter wouldn't pass up the buck of a lifetime. I'm also concerned about this happening if 'earn a buck' becomes law.

2) Mid-Oct gets warm, I think you'd see a lot of spoiled deer carcasses.

3) I don't think it would be very effective in the agricultural part of the state because in mid-october you still have a lot of standing crops. Most years when they're doing the pheasant forecast for the opener its almost always 'hunting was slow because of standing crops'. This could lead to hunter/farmer conflicts that we don't need.

4) A mid-Oct season would interfere with other seasons like duck and especially pheasant hunting. If I end up choosing between peasant hunting and doe hunting, I'll pick pheasant hunting every time, especially if it coincides with our annual SoDak trip. I think lots of other hunters would also have a conflict, and in order to get a good deer harvest you need hunters in the woods moving them around.

5) As an archery hunter, I would hate to see the deer riled up so bad in mid-october by hunters driving woodlots and flinging slugs at them from 150 yards. They'll turn nocturnal in a hurry. My experience has been that it takes 2-3 weeks for deer to settle down afer the gun season. Not that they're impossible to hunt with a bow after gun season, just tougher and not as much fun because you're not seeing the deer numbers.

I see a lot more negatives than postives in an ealry doe season. If deer numbers are a problem, make a special season in Dec. No conflicts with crops, other seasons are winding down, the DNR knows about what the harvest has been and can cancel the extra season if necessary.

[lawdog]

Quote:

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Lawdog I do not think these people would like being called ignorant just because they already do what you want to do but don't seem to have the same savey for finding big bucks.

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You have some kind of talent for taking things out of context... I never said anyone was ignoreant because of the way they hunt. That's just stupid. The only people I called ignorant are those who's only argument is "you can't tell me how to hunt or what I can shoot". Its a stupid argument since all those things are already told to us and besides its not really an argument at all when talking about problems that have arisen while those rules were in place to say that "this is what we do and it works" when obviously it hasn't done what the DNR wants to address. If you can't see what a weak pathetic argument that is, my guess is you are the type that uses it!

By the way Blackjack, I think having the doe season after the regular season may be a good alternative for them to consider...

[bigbucks]

I'm with you on this one Blackjack.

The earn a buck in a lot of ways is just ridiculous. If you said you had to shoot a doe before a buck in our area (2 & 4 day seasons), that would just set it up so that half the hunters would kill most of the deer. So your party is out hunting. One guy's shot a doe already, who's going to have to be posted anywhere you think a buck might come out? The guy or guys who've already shot a deer. The other thing that will happen is people who are party hunting will just use the buck tag of the guy who's already shot the doe & the law will accomplish nothing.

We don't have that many deer in most parts of the state where getting a doe is that easy. If there are places where it is, then I understand that, & then making it that way there maybe makes some sense.

I could see extending firearms season or making an antlerless only firearms season after muzzleloader & then extending archery season through January or February. Muzzleloader & Archery hunters could still take bucks if they have tags, firearms hunters couldn't. Why wouldn't that be fair? If there really is too many deer let the archers gain the advantage of hunting yarded deer. Why not, the idea in this discussion is to kill more right?

[Mark Christianson]

I'm basically with Blackjack and bigbucks and their assessments.

We hunt zone 4. In 2 weekends of firearms hunting, and 3 weekends of muzzleloader I saw a total of 3 deer this year. My Dad saw 4 or 5 deer in the same timeframes. Too me, thats not an overabundance of deer with that many hours in the field. Now I realize we are on one farm, but in general it was pretty poor around us too.

Just 10 miles away near the parents cabin, it was another banner year for the hunters in that area. Its thick with deer over there and has been for years, and it needs more taken out. Car/deer kills are way too common in that location. On any given evening, you can almost expect to make a short drive around and see many deer.

I think there are areas that need more micromanaging of the deer herd and some early or later season additions/changes are a good idea.

But, our DNR probably isn't about to get into a micromanaging our deer herd. Thats an issue with me, because just making a blanket statement that says there are too many deer, and we are gonna do this change in this area, isn't what I want to hear.

I don't want to hear area 411 has too many deer, and we are going make changes to take more deer out. In certain areas of 411 there are too many, and other parts of 411 don't seem to be booming. I want more deer in our given hunting area in fact.

But, the answer isn't going to be micromanaging the herd. Dang it.

[cyberamish]

I would definately be against any kind of early season addition but would love to see maybe another week tacked on the end of rifle season. The early season idea would interfere with bow hunting, upland bird hunting (I wouldn't want to bring my dogs out during a deer season), and waterfowl hunting. If they added it at the end of the existing season who knows, maybe we might actually see some snow again.

[Mudcat21]

Bring on the early season. I live in one the county's they are considering for the doe season. There are way too many does in my back yard and I shot 3 last year. I will pass on a buck the majority of the time and wait for those delicious does. Will be a tough decision between the duck blind or deer hunting!

[tripper]

I hunt zone 1 and would be against an early season also mianly because it would interfer with the best hunting time, at least around here, that the archery hunter has.

I don't hunt with dogs but do understand the concerns of the bird hunter when it comes to that. Another thought is, Would it open up another conflit between bird hunters and early season deer hunters because the guy on stand has dogs running around him?

On running the season into Jan. or Feb. how meny bucks would get shot for does because they have already droped their horns. Two years ago a freind shot a buck in late Nov.

It was around forty yards from where the deer was hit to where it died and in that distance he knocked both horns off in the brush. I can't speak for the metro area but further north where I live we have noticed that a lot of bucks are droping their horns earlier then thought.

Things can be so different in a short distance in this state that I can understand why the dnr has a hard time trying to keep up to everybodies desires on deer management.

Heres a thought for some areas that have a short rifle season. Slide in a handgun season between rifle( shotgun) and black powder. Right now if you hunt with handgun you have to do it with the rifle hunters.

[cyberamish]

I hunt zone 1 as well, and I would hate to think of losing a week or two of grouse hunting with my dogs. I do not bow hunt but firmly believe that the bow hunters deserve to have that season to themselves, if you open up an early firearms season then you bring the blaze orange clothing reg into play for everyone.

[lawdog]

Without belaboring the should we or shouldn't we have this issue. I do want to respond to this recurring comment about other seasons. You could easily bird hunt while deer hunting is going on in this special season. First there won't be EVERYBODY out there so it won't be like the regular pressure. Second, if you are worried about the dogs, put one of those upland Orange safety vests on. As for Ducks, everyone has (or could have) a gear bag and if deer hunters are in the area, just put up your orange hat or something so they see you. Most will move on then or even if they don't, they'll at least see you are there. When I duck hunt during the deer season, my orange hat is in my box and I get it out when I see hunters and while going back and forth. Its not that big of a hassle.

Granted I'm in a slug zone, but I've hunted pheasants with my dogs while deer hunting is open many many times without the slightest bit of concern, and I've hunted ducks a few times too.

In my opinion if the area you hunt was so unsafe your dog couldn't be in it even with orange on, then you should be really thinking about whether you want to be deer hunting there either!

[hunt4food]

I hunt in the East Metro area around Stillwater so I could be affected by this change. I have not really decided if I am for or against it yet. I feel that in the metro, the over population issues will not be cured by extending a season either before or after the regular season. One issue I see that hasn't been brought up here yet is the lack of permission to trespass on private property. I have spoken to people that know I deer hunt and they often say to me "I hope you shoot them all this year!! There are just too many." Well, those same individuals own 5 or more acres of land but they would never consider allowing myself or anyone else to hunt on their property. They like seeing them in their own back yards, but aren't too happy when one crosses the road in front of their new SUV. I read an article in a small local town newsletter a couple of years back written by a person who was trying to get a variance from the city for a higher fence around her property to keep the deer out because they were chewing off all her plants and flowers. Her comments went on to say "the hunters just aren't doing their job." I would have liked to give her a call and tell her that I was "for hire" come November and would be happy to help her with her deer problem for a small fee I say the DNR needs to educate the public more about this problem and explain that the only way to decrease the population is to let us hunters on their property. Even the ability to do some drives would help. I have seen deer head right on over to private property and huncker down in peoples back yards and hide where you would think a rabbit would not be able to hide. When people tell me to "shoot a bunch of them", I always make it a point to ask if I can hunt on their land now. It is very rare that I am granted permission and these are people I know and work with. In Stillwater Township for example, it is legal to hunt deer on as little as 5 acres. That's where lots of these deer go as soon as hunters enter the woods. I am sure many of you have also seen this. so how can we solve that problem??