Moss has not changed after all

[muskybuck]

I do not hate anybody. Cripes, the pack lose all the time, that's no big deal. I really would be embarrassed to defend Moss and all his childish antics. Do you remember that Thanksgiving game where John Madden tried to talk to Moss after the game? He embarrassed all of pro football that day, not to mention the Vikings and the Viking fans. How about almost running over a traffic cop cause she dared to get in the Great Moss's way? How about walking off the field last week? How many times have you seen the Great Moss run half speed in a pass route because he knew the play was not designed for him? It goes on and on and on. As someone stated earlier, he is the biggest problem the Vikes have, not the most valued.

[MJR]

I am not defending his antics, he is an idoit there is no question about it. Some of the things he does off the field get blown out of proportion quite a bit though. I am defending his talent and what he has done for the vikes. If you guys think he is hurting the team then I would say we need a new coach who can control his players.

Running half speed on routs he is not going to get the ball on will still bring the safety over to his side.

What did he do to Madden I don't recall?

Moss is no Jerry Rice, not even close.

[huskminn]

Quote:

---

Moss is no more a punk than 150 other players around the league, none of whom can match his athletic ability either!!! Its just the entertainment part of pro sports overshadowing the sport a litte, which is sad, but I don't think there is much we can do about it...

---

Lawdog, after reading some of your coherent posts in the Political forum, I'm surprised to hear your take on this.

There is something we can do about it: quit watching professional sports!! Quit buying the wearables!! Quit supporting these emotionally-undeveloped narcissists!! It's OUR money going in their pockets.

I wouldn't have Moss on my dodgeball team, let alone pay him money to "play" for me. His arrogance and deliquency has no place on any team in any sport.

I used to watch professional sports, but don't anymore (other than some golf and a little hockey when it existed). I am sick of the talk from the players, the media and the leagues.

You're right Lawdog, it is entertainment. The game has long since been forgotten. Even college football is becoming increasingly more difficult to stomach as the conferences have prostituted themselves to ABC via that festering group called the BCS.

I think you've got to peel back the layers down to Division 1-AA football before you actually see the game again.

[Guest]

The whole incident with the traffic cop was thrown out of court. She was just someone looking to make a buck and the oppertunity was there. If you read any of the eyewitness accounts, she pretty much instigated the whole thing and played it up for a potential pay-day.

T.O. is THE biggest jerk in all of football. I'd take Randy any day over that overrated punk. You dont see Moss trying to show up the opposing team every chance he gets or staging some goof-ball antic after every touchdown just for the fame and camera attention.

If Moss were a Packer you guys would be declaring him holier than Lombardi himself and he'd already have a street in Green Bay named for him. Try to deny that one.

[buzzsaw]

Well said Tom!!!

[otto_man]

i deny...

[pikehunter]

There is much to made of this, and clearly is wasn't his best decision, but I think Moss' rep gets beaten up a little too much because of some of the things he says ... and let's face it, he's just not very well spoken.

He'll make some bad decisions, yes, but he's also one of the team leaders in charitable appearances and does a lot for underprivelaged Twin Cities children. You never read about this because Moss doesn't want it publicized, not because the media doesn't like him. So I don't know if I'd call him a punk based on a couple things that have been blown up.

I would also venture to guess that most of us have left work a little early when we probably should have stuck around. I'd hate to have a camera set on me at about 4:45 today!

[juggs]

As a non-Vikings fan I have read every post on this thread and would like to give my two cents. Moss has talent to burn, but there's no way to quantify how many losses his bad attitude account for. It's obvious this team is terrific at under achieving and usually that's a matter of bad attitudes, lack of heart, or poor coaching. It could be a combo of all three for the Vikes. Red is paying Moss beaucoups money. Therefore, I tend to think that Tice, Culpepper and any other of the high profile types are holding their tongues and/or covering for his gaffes ("Randy's frustrated") right now for the sake of "team unity." The best thing the Vikings could do to have a chance, albeit slim, of beating the Packers Sunday and turning the corner toward the right direction for the years ahead is get rid of Moss. He could bring a lot of talent in a trade and the offense played pretty well without him earlier. Too many people want to look at sheer talent and forget that in a team dynamic, there's a whole lot more to winning than talent. Just look at the Packers when Lombardi came on the scene. Didn't they have pretty much the same personnel before and after? The difference was the attitude changed. Some fans are calling for Tice's head because he doesn't seem to discipline Moss. I think that's true to some degree. If I were coach, he wouldn't even play until he shapes up. But Tice is under a lot of pressure to win and knows he would be harshly criticized, maybe fired, for not playing his best player. Moss is a wild child and can only be tamed as much as he wills. I know I'll get responses saying you can't improve by getting rid of your best player but I strongly disagree. It's team game and Moss pulls the team down.

[Guest]

Juggs,

How do you know what he is like in the locker room and behind closed doors? How do you KNOW that he is a cancer?

Much of this is being blown way out of proportion by a media just chomping at the bit to bring anyone down if they get the chance. Yea he does stupid stuff, but unless you yourself are perfect, don't be so quick to judge.

Besides, getting rid of Moss and trading him for a defense is pretty much an impssibility before the Packers game....lol...wasnt the trade deadline in October or something?

[juggs]

The dealing with him before the Packer game would come in the form of reduced playing time or a total benching. Then deal him in the off season. I don't think I referred to anything he did off the field. The cancer comes in the form of saying he plays when he wants to, not blocking or running through his routes when the ball doesn't come his way, and walking off the field before the game is over. Anyone who has ever played a team sport knows how much of a detriment a self-absorbed quitter is. All I'm doing is criticizing him for what he has done that has been an obvious handicap to the team, whether it be in what he has said or what he has done. Those things are indisputable. His talent doesn't override his handicaps.

[foods]

i dunno if im the only who pays attention to these sorts of things but while TO is busy spitting on the cowboys star and grabbing a sharpie, moss scores a TD and walks over to a disabled kid most of the time and hands him the ball. not a punk move in my book.

-foods

[buzzsaw]

Heres the deal folks... It seems that Randy Moss' heart is in the right place and his teammates and coach know this, the problem is that his head always isn't and that is frustrating. I do not believe you will ever see the Vikings organization persue a trade involving the best athlete we have ever had don the purple. He is still a young guy that has a hard time expressing his frustrations in the correct manner.... how many of us are or have been guilty of this?? oh admit it, you've acted out in frustration the wrong way before and regretted it!! I'm certain he regrets his water bottle episode, his police/car deal and this walking off the field business. ESPN and Fox have exclusive interviews with him at Winter Park this week and they will air this before this weekends tilt. Take this in and see if you find him to be sincere in what he has to say for his actions... I know he makes alot of money but that doesn't automatically make the kid any smarter. Everybody wants to put these guys under a microscope and beat them up as much as possible because they make alot of money or don't play for your favorite team. Think about it... thats my .02

[united jigsticker]

Moss was as disapointed in the Vikes as I was. Doesn't mean I am not a fan, just means I felt upset by our contunual lack of production.

If you WEREN'T disapointed, then you are not a FAN.

Maybe Randy walked away because he was upset that they didn't put him in for the onside kick recovery???

I fully expected him to be out there for the recovery, and even if he was standing on the sidelines waiting to come back out, I'd still have wondered and been slighty upset.

Moss is a great athlete with tremendous talent.

It is true that he "plays when he wants to". However, I also believe from previous years and games that Randy is so gifted that he can truly outclass ANYONE in the league in respect to talent and ability at his own will.

One announcer put it best: "Randy is as fast as he feels he needs to be"

I bet if they lined up Moss in an 80 yard dash against some of the world class sprinters, if Moss had the right motivation, he'd beat them. But only by an inch.

Maybe that's his deal. If I had to race him, he'd beat me by an inch. Not because I'm fast either. Conserve energy, only do as much as you think you need to. That kinda deal.

Recall the KC game last year when he let his hair down.

Daunte threw him about a 40 yard pass up the right sideline, OVER threw him that is. You could see the OH SH!T burners kick in as Randy kicked in high gear and ran down the ball. Impressive!

Even though DAUNTE has some great numbers, I personally think he still holds the ball too long. Maybe Randy thinks so too. Seems Daunte throws it as soon as he's about to be sacked...Even if the line gives him 7-8 seconds.

[crappieflop1212]

I listened to a replay of the moss interview on KFAN today. I was really disgusted with Moss, and even more so with Tice. I understand being loyal and all that stuff, but come on. Any time Barreiro asked Moss a tough question, it was tice to the rescue. Then Moss went on to say he might walk off the field again, and it sounded to me like Tice supported that. Moss completly owns Tice. I guess that is the case with many professional teams (coach has no control), has to ask players if they will do what they are supposed to, instead of telling them what thier job is. I understand Moss has done some great things with kids and charity, but he acts like a baby at times. I you are a professional athlete, be professional, at least while your on the field.

For those of you who heard the interview on KFAN, I hope you understand what I'm talking about.

[Guest]

I listened to that live last night. He sure puts his mouth before his brain, but we all do that from time to time.

He's gotten better, but can you imagine what he would have said if this happened his first or second year?

I'll still take him over T.O. by the way

[buzzsaw]

I just heard the interview replayed on the PA and Dubay show.... That poor guy just can't speak....I'm embarrased for him! Heres what Jason Whitlock says about him.

Randy Moss isn't the only NBA player masquerading as a football star in Paul Tagliabue's NFL.

That's the beauty and brilliance of the NFL, a league that has done a remarkable job of hiding the fact that it has just as many petulant malcontents as the NBA does, as well as more performance-enhancing drug cheats than Major League Baseball and Olympic track and field, combined.

This wasn't the first time Randy Moss walked off the field early -- or acted like a malcontent.

No one should be all that surprised that Moss abandoned his Minnesota teammates near the end of their seventh loss in 10 games last Sunday, walking off the field as the Vikings lined up for a last-ditch onside kick with two seconds to play.

Randy Moss, self-absorbed?

This is the man who thanked Marshall University for offering him a home by skipping the press conference called to announce his early entry into the NFL draft. This is the man who told the world that he routinely takes plays off, and plays only when he wants to play.

Randy Moss is no Avon Barksdale. Randy doesn't love the game. He loves what the game can do for Randy Moss. And with two ticks on the clock and the Vikings trailing by three but still with a (Contact US Regarding This Word) good chance to back into the playoffs, the Redskins' game had nothing left to offer Moss. So he headed for the locker room, seizing the opportunity to be the first man in the shower and grab a clean, unused bar of soap.

Surprised? Heck, Moss had done it twice before last Sunday. This latest early exit received national attention only because Minnesota is in the middle of another predictable meltdown and Vikings coach Mike Tice is in jeopardy of losing his job.

Everything gets magnified during a 3-7 slump. We also tend to lose perspective.

Yes, Randy Moss is a coward and a punk and has the leadership skills of a five-year-old Girl Scout placed in charge of Navy Seals. Moss is not a winner. He contaminates and undermines everything with which he comes in contact. Dennis Green, the man who ignored Moss' rap sheet, looked like a genius for drafting the freakish wide receiver when he caught 17 touchdowns, averaged 19 yards per catch and ignited the Vikings to a 15-1 record in his rookie season.

But three years later, partially because of Green's inability to control Moss, the coach lost control of his team, and then lost his job when the squad fell to 5-11. Green, as talented a football coach as there is, tried a full-out NBA approach to coaching in the NFL. He shared the power with his two most talented and influential players -- Moss and Cris Carter -- and it blew up in his face.

I mention all of this to make the point that Randy Moss isn't alone as a cancerous pariah lurking in the NFL waters. Tagliabue's league, with its salary-cap-driven reliance on huge signing bonuses, is developing uncontrollable superstar malcontents at an NBA pace.

Moss walked off the field before the end of the Redskins game because Vikings owner Red McCombs -- at the behest of Green -- gave Moss an $18 million signing bonus (and a $100 million contract) just before training camp opened in 2001, which just happened to be Green's final miserable season in Minnesota.

It's impossible to motivate, discipline or control a young man with Moss' attitude and personality once you've handed him lifetime financial security and surrendered the only piece of leverage you ever had over him.

You can't cut Moss once he's holding $18 million of McCombs' cash flow. You really can't afford to cross him or tick him off, either. You can only beg and pray. NBA coaches -- who deal with teenage and 20-something, shoe-deal-emboldened, guaranteed-contract-fortified multi-millionaires all the time -- have begging and praying down to a science. They call it Zen. And when the Zen doesn't work, they retire and write books about it.

NFL coaches are playing catch-up. They're just coming to grips with the negative influences of gigantic signing bonuses. The league used to threaten and manipulate super-talented jerks such as Moss by threatening to waive them, which would void their contracts and end the stream of money. The NFL wasn't encumbered by guaranteed contracts.

Now, $20-to-$30 million signing bonuses are making un-guaranteed contracts work just like a guaranteed deal. And that brings out the NBA in NFL players.

Priest Holmes is one of the good guys -- and even he has caused his team headaches.

It's widespread throughout the league. The NFL is masterful -- with its petty fines for violating all sorts of petty rules, such as the league's uniform policies -- at hiding the fact that it has little control over its players, particularly its high-profile stars. Take Kansas City Chiefs running back Priest Holmes. He's a legitimately good guy. But Chiefs coach Dick Vermeil and team president Carl Peterson have no idea what Holmes is going to do, day to day. None.

At metaphorical gunpoint (Holmes threatened to sit) just before the start of the 2003 season, the Chiefs gave Holmes a contract extension and more upfront money. (He deserved it.) Holmes shattered the NFL's single-season touchdown record and then disappeared during the offseason and contemplated retirement. He changed cell phone numbers and broke off all communication with the organization. When he finally re-emerged after two months and many frantic phone calls from the Chiefs' brass, Holmes told the team he wanted to rush for 2,000 yards this season and needed to cut down on his number of receptions to do it. (If you check the stats, you'll see that NFL backs who have approached or surpassed 2,000 yards have never been a big part of their team's passing game.)

A high-scoring, wide-receiver-deficient offense that had for three years been built around throwing 70 passes a season to Holmes then had to re-work its philosophy to accommodate its well-paid star. This year, in eight games, Holmes caught 19 passes before he suffered a season-ending knee injury.

You think Allen Iverson is the only superstar with a healthy disdain for practice?

"Practice! We talkin' 'bout practice?"

NFL players spend nearly every free second complaining about practice. Tom Coughlin spent the offseason bickering with his Giants players about practice, and I'm not sure if Coughlin has figured out even now that his team quit on him because of it.

Just like there's a little Allen Iverson inside every NBA player, there's a little Randy Moss inside every NFL locker room. As the signing bonuses get bigger, don't be surprised when all the Li'l Randys come out to play ... and take their balls and go home early when things don't go their way.

[Dan Wood]

Get rid of Moss and build a defense for next year - that is my opinion... The guy has all the talent in the world, but isn't part of what it takes to build a TEAM.

[Stratosman]

I think we need to keep Moss, I hate his antics as much as everyone else, but there are not many players that command defenses to change their whole scheme when they play against them. He is a big reason Culpepper is having the year he is, when he is on the field, the other recievers will have single coverage and even the safety cheats to Moss' side on occasion. And when Moss is single covered, look out. If we trade anyone I think we trade Bennet, too injury prone, Russel, is there a worse tackling defensive back in football, and Hovan, what happened to him? Work these guys and maybe others into a higher draft pick or something, we need linebackers bad. I like our D-line and it is very young, if we can keep them together that is. Get some linebackers and maybe a safety or a good corner. It's easy coaching from my computer though!

[juggs]

Thank you Jason Whitlock. Funny how everyone in the media saying anything about "Moss-gate" is negative but a lot of fans still support this guy.

[muskybuck]

Tom Herman I deny that I would ever want that punk Moss in a Packer uniform!!!!! He would be a cancer to the team. The Packer fans love the Packers for being what they are, not for winning games. They are a team owned by the people. Remember, the Pack in their history, have lost more games than darn near any other team. Its nice when they win but it is not the most important thing. Hard to believe isn't it?

[MJR]

So how did you feel when the pack signed Terry Glenn? As I recall the pack nation dubbed him as the second coming.

I think I hear the booing beginning.

I say Moss does 3 Lambert leaps on Sunday.

[fishyguy]

Musky,

The Pack fans, for the most part, have stayed with the team throughout, that is for sure. But it seems ironic that statement coming from you, since in previous posts you said your were a Vikes fan also at one time but couldn't deal with the frustration. I am too lazy to go look for that post so if I am wrong, my aplogies, but I believe I am correct.

Also, I know there are over 111,000 people holding paper that says they have stock in the Pack. These stockholders, have made an investment to financially support the team, for minimal resale value (only can be sold back to the team for a fraction of the original cost), no dividends to share in, and no increase in value regardless of teams financial status. Owners? I know technically they are called that because they vote for the Board of Directors, but voluntary financial supporters is probably more accurate. Do people really believe they own the team or is it just pride in the support of the team? If it is pride in the support of the team, that is cool, but owners, that might be a stretch of semantics.

[buzzsaw]

fishyguy... Great post!!! I know a few Packer faithful that hold "Stock" in their favorite team and are SOOOO proud, I say the same thing to them that you said only in other words... I think I like your verbage better!

[muskybuck]

Fishguy, I am still a Viking Fan. I am not however, a Moss fan or a Hovan fan. I have not been a Moss fan since I saw the interview that Madden attempted to have with him after a Thangsgiving day game. Since that time he has done nothing to change my mind. The reason I would not want Moss on the Packer Team is because right now they are a "TEAM". Moss would destroy the team part of the Packers. You saw what happened to McKenzie (sp) when he thought he was the most important player on the Packer "TEAM". Last time I saw him playing he was bench warming somewhere. The Pack suffered on the pass defense for a while without him (still are) but in the long run kept the "TEAM". I believe good backs like that are much harder to replace than Moss would be. There are plenty of good recievers around and if you need one you can get one. Look how the Packers picked up Rison right before the Super Bowl win and Rison caught a touchdown pass in that game. No, Moss would not be a good thing for the Pack. I do not think he is a good thing for the Vikes either.

[hawkeye43]

then maybe it time Moss and all the players to steps up and do what they get payed to do, play ball and be a leader on the team. There is no I in football, its a team sport so play as a team. Over the last 15 years its getting old when you hear at the start of the year how good they will be and all the same old thing, they stink. Too many big heads on the team.