Permanent Deer Stands

[Jack Pine]

I agree with Fisher Dave, the biggest threat to sportsmen is other sportsman. If you read most of these posts that attack others there seems to be an underlying theme…If you don’t hunt or fish the way I do or you inconvenience me, then there should be a law against what you do. You combine the anti’s and a bunch of selfish sportsmen and you get a pretty good sized lobby group.

But beware.. one of these days the way you hunt or fish will be in their sights too.

[BLACKJACK]

JACKPINE, you make a good point, the anti's keep chipping away, thats why they go after bear hunters, lion hunters, trappers, because they are a small group. Next its archery hunters, and on and on. Does that mean that even though I think that crossbows shouldn't be allowed in regular hunting seasons that I shouldn't say something about it, so we have a 'unified' front?

Back to the permanent stand issue, the eyesore part to me is minor compared to the issue of hunters claiming/squattting on a piece of land once they put up a permanent stand. The wood and junk from stands can always be cleaned up and hauled away, but once one hunter 'claims' a spot, nobody else can hunt that spot, even though its supposed to be open to all. Thats not right. And even if I'm 6' 5" and weigh 300 pounds and I go sit in that stand opening morning, you're confronting the hunter/'owner' of a stand thats carrying a gun. Who wants to ruin their opening day of deer hunting by doing that?

[can it be luck?]

Laying claim to a stake on public land, that's where I have my problems. Haveing prime spots monopolized year after year. WI. allows portables on public land, no permanents. However, I can think of quite a few that I know of on public lands. It's a law that isn't enforced too heavy, at least from my experience. Trying to avoid situations such as, "Hey!" You're in MY spot!" "Well buddy", "You've been bagging a buck off this spot for the last few years, how's about letting me sit there once?" "Heck no!" "Find your own spot!" "I did!" "Right here, move over please". "By the way, do you mind not pointing that gun at me?" .....I had one guy tell me I was fishing on "his" rock once! We were fishing trout and salmon on a congested stream. After sleeping in his truck for 6 hours, he comes out, takes a leak, rubs his eyes, and starts to b#*ch about me takeing his spot. He claims he "marked it" with a folding chair and his fishing pole! Guess what? He ended up with a new spot... About 20 yards away where his chair and pole landed in the woods! "Hey buddy!" "Watch out for the trees and squirrels when casting over there!"

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http://groups.msn.com/canitbeluck

[RiverKarhu]

It is really dismaying reading these posts - hunters argueing amongst ourselves about putting more restrictions on our sport. I know this is an old line, but we really need to stick together. You protect my way of hunting, I'll protect yours. Compromise, compromise, compromise, until you have compromised away the enjoyment.
Black: you mean by getting out at 4 or 5am, setting up your portable you are not "laying claim" to an area? Sounds to me like know you have the time and physical ability to beat most other hunters out to that sweet spot, and you want to take advantage of it - and them. Permanent stands don't "lay claim" to an area, they are public property. They just let other hunters know that someone else hunts here.

later

River

[wade22]

Ban 'em.
It's not about creating an eyesore, it's about the changing tempo of our sport. Laying claim to public land just because you've hunted it previously is wrong. Period. Any and all hunters who pay taxes have just as much right to hunt that area as the next guy. I don't care about precedence, or if you've bagged deer there in the past, or if you've worked hard to scout out the right area. Obviously the next guy worked hard to scout out the area too, or they wouldn't be there.
I've hunted my family's private land for 13 years (out of a permanent deer stand) and occasionally the surrounding public land too (out of a portable), which more and more people hunt every season. Our sport is changing every year, and this change needs to be embraced. There's going to be more and more hunters every year whether you like that fact or not. So my advice, constructive criticism, whatever, is either to find private land or get out to your portable deer stand on public ground early because more and more hunters are scouting prime public land and public land is for everyone who pays taxes and enjoys the sport of hunting. Again, this is NOT an issue of creating eyesores. It's about giving everyone who enjoys hunting an even chance of hunting on public land. Boaters who mark off an area of a lake on their GPS don't get upset when they see other people fishing that area. It's public. That means no individual can justifiably lay claim to an area simply because they hunt there every year. The idea that permanent deer stands should remain on public ground is exclusive and in my opinion, direly wrong. You don't pay exclusive money to hunt there, and neither does anyone else. Public land is established and maintained by everyone's tax $'s, not yours alone.
Anyways, that's my opinion on this issue. I don't think it will make a big difference either way if hunters remain diligent and courteous to each other.

[BLACKJACK]

I guess my previous post did show up...

[This message has been edited by BLACKJACK (edited 01-22-2004).]

[Bogsucker]

Tear 'em all down, if man was meant to be climbing around in trees he would have been born with a tail. I see absolutely no reason to have a permanent stand on public property, portables removed every night OK, I have no use for a treestand, except for when hunting bear.

[RiverKarhu]

Okay, let's go one step better. To make it fair and even the playing field, let's ban ALL stands from public land. Permanent and portable. It'll be fair for everyone. You want to take away my hunting method - I'll work to take away yours.
And I'm sure the anti hunting crowd will applaud us both for being "reasonable".

River

[Bogsucker]

let's not get radical here. The concept of a permanent private tree stand is simply not in compliance with the concept of public property. If a stand is on public property the stand must also be considered public.

I have built many duck blinds on public lands/waters that I have no expectation of having sole use of.

[RiverKarhu]

Whoa!
Nobody said anything about "permanent private" - we are talking about permanent stands. A stand on public land is a public stand.
I don't think anyone would argue that point.
River

[Kostoglotov]

My take

I just as soon stay away from some that has a permanent stand established in an area I’m looking to hunt. To me its common courtesy. On the flip side, I hunt with a portable and do a fair amount of scouting prior to season. Twice I have found a spot I wanted to hunt, laid out a ribbon trail 2 weeks prior to opener and come back on opener only to find somebody had put a permanent up right next to where I had marked and used the same trail I had laid out.

I realize that I do not own the woods but a little common sense would sure go along way.

[Buck12]

There definitely seems to be strong opinions one side or the other on the state's proposed ban on permanent stands. I currently rifle hunt from a free-standing permanent stand on Crow Wing county land. I voiced my oppostion to the ban at the county's meeting and may as well here too. The number one reason to hunt out of a well built permanent stand is SAFETY! Does anyone remember some of the terrible ice and snow storms we have had during the deer seasons? Imagine tring to climb up screwed in steps or even a ladder covered with an inch of ice. It is nearly impossible plus extermely dangerous. I also would like to introduce my grandchildren to the sport of deer hunting, which is easier and safer in the comfort of a roomy perm. stand. Oh yea I do like the comfort. Of course I hunt sunup to sundown. "Claiming" a peice of property is also a small part. I do believe senority does have it's place. This allows others to search or scout other areas which will cause less hassles with other hunters. If have a portable up in an area the majority of people will not even know it's there. I camo. my stands well. Anyways they will think the area is not being hunted and will hang a stand too close. Oh boy will that be fun, sitting in your stand and having someone come walking up only to realize you also are there on opening morning.
I am proud to be a member of the Minnesota Deer Hunter's Assoc. and am glad they oppose this ban. I hope they keep at it. For me, I'll have to adjust how I rifle hunt. I do bow hunt out of portable stands on the same land I rifle hunt so I know the pros and cons of both. Watch and see the number of accidents rise if the state imposes this ban.
Yea, I'd much rather shoot a deer with my bow, but the family tradtion we enjoy during rifle season can't be beat. I do hope the legislature will take the views of hunters into consideration over that of the anti's before acting on this proposal.

[Jack Pine]

I guess I am confused by some of the arguments used by those against permanent stands. First, I would like to say that I no longer use permanent stands and don’t have a strong alliance with either side of the issue.

I see complaints that a permanent stand lays claim to a certain spot in the woods & then these same people will be upset because they had clearly marked off an area in the woods with trials and ribbons and someone else had the audacity to use their spot. How is that any different? Ban permanent stands and that guy is not going away. If he has a good spot he is going to be there again next year with portable stand. I have seen the same arguments in the grouse hunting forum against ATV’s. Someone will rant about ATV’s taking over the trails and then be upset that someone had the gull to use a trail when I clearly had claimed that trail by parking my four wheel drive truck at the end of it. Again, how is that any different? There are anti ATV arguments used in this post. I guess maybe I am naive but are all these guys buying these condo sized ladder stands carrying them into the woods?

There are also some advantages to people putting up a stand and claiming an area. Two years ago, I had scouted out a great spot. Opening morning, I realized I was no the first discover this spot . I was surrounded by two other hunters in portable stands. In fact, because it is fairly thick woods, I did not even realize they were there until one of them shot a small buck right in front of my stand. If these guys had put up permanent stands, I would have discovered them while scouting and not wasted my opening morning hunting there.

I guess what I was trying to says in my previous post was that if the anti’s are lobbying your legislator against hunting and then you as a hunter are complaining about all the little things that annoy you about other hunters, it makes for a strong voice for those who would like to ban it all.

[Craig_S]

I've a perspective on this from other states. I've lived in a few and have friends and family all over the country. You gotta know that many other hunters in the USA think that MN deer hunting ethics are the worst. In the west, you'd be held in extremely low esteem for shooting anyone elses animal for them. Party hunting is generaly illegal, and considered highly immoral in most of the country.

Now the deer stand argument is going down the same road. My bro in AZ is laughing his but off.

Take the high road and help clean up our immage. Ban the Yupers and permanent deer stands.

Craig

[wallygators]

I don't know why everyone must arhue about such a stupid topic. Who cares if people hunt from portable or permanent stands. If they feel like building one on public who cares it is their right. If someone else feels like tareing it down that is their right.

if you don't like it move

[Craig_S]

Well, Wally, if permanents are banned, sad to say I don't think there's anywhere else in this country for big stand builders to move to!

Those with permanents on public land obviously have the most to loose here. Question is is it fair and ethical? I read that someone suggested paying for the privelage (I really don't think you have a right to use public land for yourself) of building a permanent. I like that.

Craig

[Guest]

Interesting take Craig. I've always been fascinated by the regional differences, and how folks from other areas tend to look down their noses at the practices of others. For instance, I was aghast at the common western practice of what can only be termed "pick-up truck" hunting - where folks tend to get out of the vehicle to shoot (sometimes not even then) and to put the animal in the back of the truck. Other than that, the "hunt" is conducted from the cab of the truck. Discussing this over a couple of cold ones at a watering hole one evening, I was flabbergasted to hear that a couple of the "pick-up hunters" considered organized deer drives to be rotten and unsportsmanlike. Kinda cool, huh?
How about shooting turkeys with rifles from long distances? Eastern "traditional" type turkey hunters shake their heads in disgust, while I have actually had ranchers deny me the use of a shotgun on their land - because they don't want stray pellets hitting non-target birds. True story!

As far as permanents, I have a couple on private land, but don't bother in public areas. Besides, I prefer stalking to sitting. In some areas in the Arrowhead I know who is hunting a particular area - who has stands and who doesn't, and do my best to avoid wrecking things for others. If I know someone always hunts a particular ridge overlooking a swamp, I'm going to leave 'em to it. Its a big country, and there is no need for me to horn in.
Like the guy who drops a marker on the lake over the fish he has located, and expects to not get run over, other folks deer hunting deserve at least some common decency and respect.
Maybe it all comes down to people needing to exercise politeness, understanding and a little less attitude.

[Craig_S]

That's for sure Pete. If everybody was a little more courtious, there'd most likely not even be a discussion here.

True story: I have a private shack with some public lands nearby. On the last day of the season, I sat in a permanent that wasn't used all year. At exactly legal shoot, a fellow and his 7 year old daughter walk up and say "gosh, Fred told me I could sit in his stand. I'm not familiar with this country and have nowhere else to go". I climb down and tell them to have a good hunt. But, was really a little miffed that I had to ruin my last hunt for the season. I sat there for an hour in the dark then had to saunter away. Old Fred has so many stands, it's impossible to predict who may show up when and where. I shouldn't have to worry about it, but I'm actually more concerned I'm going to mess them up than geting the most out of my time. I guess I just feel I shouldn't have to go through a bunch of social hoops and just want to concentrate on my hunting.

Craig

[Craig_S]

And Pete,

Sure, you can look at the worst side of any group - it's sort of human nature. It's juicier that way.

So be assured, outsiders are looking at the worst side of us.

Craig

[eyecrosser2000]

What do you guys think about trout fishing vs catfishing? Or, for that matter, fishing trout with live bait vs flies? Or, how about shooting grouse on the ground vs on the fly; or with or without dogs? How about using dogs for driving deer? Or using a dog to find a deer you know is dead but cannot find? What about lead sinkers killing loons? And, we might as well talk about if Ford trucks are better than Chevy!!

[Mark Christianson]

Cats for sure.
Live bait for trout.
Grouse in the air.
Dogs to find deer would be cool.
Ah, sinkers don't kill loons.
Lastly, my Chevy sucks. Toyota Tundra for me next!

[Fisher Dave]

Cats are better.. sunfish are still the best bait(not legal in MN).. is legal in many states... bullheads are legal here.

Live bait for trout..(these might be good cat bait too)

Dogs to find deer? I dont have anything against it, but I'm sure it would cause some concern with others hunting in the woods.

Grouse .. take them where you can get them(considering safety for others and dogs).. I'm not going to tell my kids they cant shoot them on the ground.. or rabbits if their not running. They still taste the same.

[Craig_S]

I'll take anyfish when the getting is good

I use both bait and flies.

I've hunted deer with hounds and both methods have their place.

I prefer all my upland birds in the air, but when the getting is slow, and I want supper, I'll make meat.

Chevy for traction, Ford for comfort.

Point taken though. There's lots of ways to skin a cat. And judging one for methods can be unfair. All in all, I think I'm pretty tolerant of others.

Craig

[wannafishto]

Couple years ago, my father and I put up a portable ladder stand on a section of public land where we have hunted for several years. I shot a doe and we were tracking her when another hunter confronted us saying we were making too much noise. he actually threatened my father (72 yrs old) with his rifle! this guy said he had been hunting there for several years also. We left without recovering the deer, and called the local police. They said it was my word against his, besides they said, the guy is a TEACHER at a local school and they just could not believe he would act that way! Turns out, this guy also was the same one who drove by my father on a nearby dirt road several times before the confrontation yelling profanities out his car window at my father. Seem like the idea of someone thinking he OWNS public land is catchy these days. This guy then put up a HUGE permanent stand right where we like to hunt, and this is a year AFTER the DNR passed the law saying they are no longer allowed. I mean, some people are really getting out of hand. Tell you what, that guy better hope I never find out his name. He won't be a teacher for long if I do...wonder what he's teaching our kids!!!