VW--Oooopsie

[delcecchi]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2015/09/18/epa-accuses-volkswagen-audi-evading-emission-laws/72400018/

 Environmental Protection Agency on Friday accused Volkswagen of installing software on 482,000 diesel cars in the U.S. to evade federal emission regulations, potentially exposing people to harmful pollutants.

The German automaker adopted what the EPA called a "defeat device" to trick U.S. regulators into believing that its cars met Clean Air Actstandards, the federal agency said in a statement.

The agency said the diesel cars that violated federal standard were the 2009-14Volkswagen Jetta, Beetle and Golf, the 2014-15 Volkswagen Passat, and the 2009-15Audi A3.

Those cars emitted nitrogen oxides, which can exacerbate respiratory conditions such as asthma, at up to 40 times the standard level, the EPA said.

Volkswagen admitted to investigators that it had installed the defeat device, the EPA said.....

It was software that turned on all the emission controls when it detected the test cycle.  Otherwise turned them off. 

[Jeremy airjer W]

I read that today as well!

[RebelSS]

Well, those sneaky Krauts!!!! Incredible! Shame!

[delcecchi]

18 billion dollar fine.  That could sting a little. Plus they have to persuade the owners to have it done when it probably will make the vehicle perform worse.

[RebelSS]

http://www.nbcnews.com/business/business-news/diesel-recall-likely-only-start-vws-problems-n430896

[delcecchi]

Especially since getting folks to have the work done when the only result will be the car runs worse and gets worse milage will be difficult. 

[JOHNBIGDOG]

Yes Jer,  this does affect my jetta. 

 

Not sure how I feel about it. Need to know more about the "fix" I may be picking up a Ford if fuel economy and torque are significantly reduced.

 

 

[delcecchi]

They don't have a fix yet.  Apparently leaving it in smog test mode all the time was unacceptable.  And they are up to 11 million cars world wide.  woo hoo. Get your stock cheap. 

[PurpleFloyd]

All they did was change the code in the computer to change the way some of the emissions equipment works.

Personally I thi k it is foolish to make a manufacturer tune their engines to be less efficient, lower power and to reduce the service life of the engine and related components.

Does anyone know how the vw systems work? Near as I can tell they may have programmed the engine to not cycle the exhaust back through an egr device that send the exhaust back through the intake to reduce nox. Can anyone verify this? 

If that is the case I support what they did because that action reduces service life of the engine and oil. 

[delcecchi]

Whatever they did increases the emissions above the legal limit.   In California you won't be able to renew your license plate tabs without producing proof that the recall has been performed.  

They didn't confess until California said they would not certify the 2016 models for sale in California. 

I take it you are not a fan of air pollution restrictions on cars. 

[LMITOUT]

They don't have a fix yet.  

The fix was installed at the factory.

Whoever is behind this should be celebrated, not condemned.  There should be elaborate parties thrown in their honor, parades in every city, and a national holiday named.  

F the EPA and kudos to VW for providing a product that consumers deserve for their money and not one that is neutered by unnecessary regulations championed by the tyrannical minority.

 

Bravo, VW...Bravo.

[delcecchi]

They don't have a fix that brings their cars into compliance with the law.   Perhaps it is as simple as disabling the test detection and running the engine in that mode all the time.  

I am sort of disappointed with those who cheer VW for their lawbreaking and cheating and fraud.  

If you want one of those cheater cars better get it quick before the fix is installed.  And be careful where you live.  Some places will require certification of the recall being installed to buy license plates or tabs. 

 

[LMITOUT]

They don't have a fix that brings their cars into compliance with the law.  

 

I am sort of disappointed with those who cheer VW for their lawbreaking and cheating and fraud.  

 

I'm disappointed with those who think it's perfectly acceptable to only have substandard vehicles to choose from that are saddled with performance restricting, efficiency hampering, life-shortening equipment courtesy of the tyrannical minority in their war against a boogeyman.

[delcecchi]

Now you are sounding like BigDave.   

[RebelSS]

Now you are sounding like BigDave.   

 Maybe he just bought a shiny new B'dub. 

[delcecchi]

It remains to be seen in which states having the recall fix installed will be mandatory.   I find the whole story pretty interesting.   

I plan on letting what belongs in Sillytown stay in Sillytown. 

Federal, and in the case of California state, emission controls are a fact of life. 

[swamptiger]

There is something wrong with emission regulations concerning diesels in this country.  Small, fuel efficient, diesel powered cars are very common in Europe, but almost non-existent here.

What's wrong?  Probably more to the story behind the story.

[delcecchi]

There is something wrong with emission regulations concerning diesels in this country.  Small, fuel efficient, diesel powered cars are very common in Europe, but almost non-existent here.

What's wrong?  Probably more to the story behind the story.

VW was cheating world wide.  Issue involves 11 million cars. 

Here is an interesting opinion piece. 

http://www.wsj.com/articles/politicians-hope-scandal-stops-at-vw-1443218767

Martin Winterkorn lost his job over the Volkswagen emissions cheating scandal, but his head should be the least to roll. Lord forgive us for saying something that could be misconstrued as supportive of Donald Trump: If the Trump phenomenon is a revolt against “stupid” elites, there is much to revolt about.

A consensus has formed, in a remarkably short time since the VW scandal, that Europe’s rush to embrace diesel cars was a colossal policy error. For a meaningless cut in greenhouse emissions, Europe got higher emissions of nitrogen oxides and diesel particulates. While claims of thousands of additional deaths from this diesel pollution are questionable, Europe now realizes it converted half its cars to diesel for no good reason. And this is just the beginning.

If carbon dioxide is a problem, cars were never the solution. Cars and light trucks account for less than 8% of global emissions; U.S. cars and light trucks account for less than 3%. U.S. car makers are being required by government to spend hundreds of billions on fuel-mileage improvements in the name of global warming that will have virtually zero effect on global warming.

(snip)

Expect, even now, a decorous investigation of the VW scandal. Don’t expect a full exposure of the panic when the company realized it could not hit the U.S. emissions targets for nitrogen oxide, plus the Obama fuel mileage requirements, plus customer expectations for price and performance in an affordable sedan.

A private study, carried out by West Virginia University and the International Council for Clean Transportation, set off the scandal in the first place. The study focused on three diesel vehicles: two modest VW sedans and a much larger, more expensive BMW SUV.

The BMW was a full 1,600 pounds heavier—thus naturally suited to diesel, with its low-revving torque—and carried twice the sticker price, helping to accommodate elaborate clean-diesel technology. The BMW’s mileage was good, not spectacular, and the vehicle met EPA’s nitrogen-oxide limits.

It’s easy to imagine BMW whispering in somebody’s ear that VW’s claim to have generated low NOX emissions, high mpg, excellent drivability, at a small sedan’s price point, just didn’t add up. And it didn’t.

(snip)

I edited out as much of the opinion/political stuff as seemed possible.  Some still remains.  Try to ignore it if you can.    

Note that VW cheated to meet European standards too.  Diesel seemed like a way to meet the fuel economy and CO2 goals but couldn't meet NOx without cheating it turned out.  At least that is the way I understand it. 

Now is the fun part.  VW has 11 million cars in violation of emission standards world wide.  It may be impossible to fix them so as to meet the fuel economy and the emissions standards.  Get your popcorn and enjoy the show. 

Edited September 28, 2015 by delcecchi

[RebelSS]

Ruh roh.....

 

[swamptiger]

 

VW was cheating world wide.  Issue involves 11 million cars. 

Here is an interesting opinion piece. 

http://www.wsj.com/articles/politicians-hope-scandal-stops-at-vw-1443218767

I edited out as much of the opinion/political stuff as seemed possible.  Some still remains.  Try to ignore it if you can.    

Note that VW cheated to meet European standards too.  Diesel seemed like a way to meet the fuel economy and CO2 goals but couldn't meet NOx without cheating it turned out.  At least that is the way I understand it. 

Now is the fun part.  VW has 11 million cars in violation of emission standards world wide.  It may be impossible to fix them so as to meet the fuel economy and the emissions standards.  Get your popcorn and enjoy the show. 

Here's the part you should have highlighted:

 

If carbon dioxide is a problem, cars were never the solution. Cars and light trucks account for less than 8% of global emissions; U.S. cars and light trucks account for less than 3%. U.S. car makers are being required by government to spend hundreds of billions on fuel-mileage improvements in the name of global warming that will have virtually zero effect on global warming.

 

So consumers got stuck with the bill for hundreds of billions for no good reason. 

[LMITOUT]

 

Federal, and in the case of California state, emission controls are a fact of life. 

Defeatist attitude if I've ever saw one.  Sad, really.

If carbon dioxide is a problem (It's not), cars were never the solution. Cars and light trucks account for less than 8% of global emissions; U.S. cars and light trucks account for less than 3%. U.S. car makers are being required by government to spend hundreds of billions on fuel-mileage improvements in the name of global warming that will have virtually zero effect on global warming.

Nailed. It. 

#boogeyman

 edited out as much of the opinion/political stuff as seemed possible.  Some still remains.  Try to ignore it if you can.  

Yep, stick your head in the sand and pretend everything is just hunky-dory. 

Unbelievable.

[delcecchi]

Defeatist attitude if I've ever saw one.  Sad, really.

Realist is more like it.    We still have a wool and mohair subsidy although it was repealed after 40 years, in 1993, it was reinstated in subsequent farm bills.  We still have sugar quotas to subsidize farmers.  To think that the argument that the CO2 cars emit is too small to matter and so shouldn't be regulated would actually prevail is ludicrous. 

Maybe, just maybe, at some time in the past it could have been headed off, except the auto industry  cried wolf about CAFE and emission controls so many times that there is no credibility on the issue. 

Go on beating your head against the wall.  Maybe when Gary Johnson is elected president he can bring back big carburated V8s that get 11 mpg by executive order.    

 

So consumers got stuck with the bill for hundreds of billions for no good reason. 

Well, to the extent that was the excess cost of the small diesels, yes. 

I was trying to not make it a political thing but to communicate information about VW.  Clearly I misjudged a little. 

Edited September 28, 2015 by delcecchi

[LMITOUT]

 To think that the argument that the CO2 cars emit is too small to matter and so shouldn't be regulated would actually prevail is ludicrous. 

No, the argument that CO2 matters is what's "ludicrous".

Maybe when Gary Johnson is elected president he can bring back big carburated V8s that get 11 mpg by executive order.    

Not waiting for that to happen.  My gas guzzling 392CI V8 will be here next month. 

[SkunkedAgain]

I'm disappointed with those who think it's perfectly acceptable to only have substandard vehicles to choose from that are saddled with performance restricting, efficiency hampering, life-shortening equipment courtesy of the tyrannical minority in their war against a boogeyman.

Well the choice you are presenting seems to be between having a cleaner environment vs less productivity out of our cars. Lmitout you are in a shrinking minority. Enjoy the view.

[LMITOUT]

First of all, nice strawman argument...a flawed one that conflicts itself as well.

Secondly, No I'm not.

Lastly, If you disagree with #2 that's fine.  I'll enjoy not being one of the kool-aid drinking useful idiots in the alleged "majority".