New statewide Pike Regs

[merkman]

To let fishing completely fall apart for the benefit (is it even a benefit if fishing is ruined?) of a very small handful of trophy hunters who already have a summer time only catch and release only esox that genetically grows bigger than a northern pike seems pretty foolish to me.

The fallacy that you can have all trophies, for all species, all the time, is a bill of goods you are tring to sell the entire state of Minnesota even as the Mille Lacs fishery collapses in front of your very eyes for that exact reason. Trophy walleyes, Trophy Bass, Trophy Muskies, Trophy Northern Pike all living in one pond is not balance it is a pipe dream that simply does not work.

Now you are asking me to give up my rights and privileges as a Minnesotan for someone's pipe dream... no thanks... I'm not bitting. Now if you want to talk about balance and the fact that yes you can't have the biggest of big fish; and that is an acceptable tradeoff for the fact that we can still have fishing, then that is something to work toward. But when the end goal is all trophies all the time... no thanks... i will enjoy what is left of fishing before the trophy crowd totally ruins it... then hope and pray they turn their attention to something else within my lifetime so I can once again enjoy fishing sometime in my life.

Good luck out there.

-Merk

[Early Riser]

If the DNR changes anything, the tag system, like live4chrome suggested, might work. Limited tags are currently being used in the management for other species like halibut and sturgeon spearing in Wisc; and paddlefish snagging in other areas, if I am not mistaken.

Like Lunkercity noted, the proposed zero harvest of a pike of 30" would shut down a lot of activity in the NE. Most of the lakes I spear in the Gunflint area produce numbers of smaller pike for us for eating, but there are a few lakes on my list with real trophy potential in a very unique wilderness setting that I would like to continue to plan and dream about. Many years lake travel conditions make many of these spots practically unattainable. It really gets to be a struggle in deep snow with a snowmobile and sleigh just trying to get to a spot, to say nothing of cutting a hole, setting up a portable in slush and then spearing in wet conditions, while it may be well below zero outside. The new proposed regulations would not have any meaningful impact up there, which is one of several reasons that "one size fits all" regulations are seen by many as foolishness. In fact the more I think about it, the more I am convinced it will not come to pass as it has been proposed here….however, who knows these days!

[PurpleFloyd]

how about a tag system (GAFF) like alaskas charter boats have for halibut?

On a chartered boat in AK you are allowed 2 halibut. One must be under 29" and the other may be any size.If an angler keeps a fish over 29", and then catches another over they may buy a tag from the state for something like 100$ that allows them to harvest the second fish over 29" in place of the fish under 29" GAFF tag numbers are limited in #. the tags are really designed for the angler who keeps their 30# eater, then catches the 300lb barn door derby winner fish.

I could see something like this working in Minnesota. Perhaps a 20$ tag for a fish over 30", and limit to 1 or 2 tags a season?

Thus your Oops factor you get when spearing goes away, and if an angler really has to kill a big fish for some reason they can take one legally per year. The fish must be immediately tagged upon reducing it to your possession.

I feel a good percent of anglers wouldn't buy one, yet the option is still there. The key to making this work is making the tags expensive enough. They won't work if they are only 3$

Its not as good as the proposed regs, but might appease the spearing crew and the Must kill all pike crew as well.

I agree with you. I have said for years that the DNR should issue tags for fishing rather than just set daily limits and possession limits and then those who want to catch additional fish should be able to purchase additional tags for some fee that would be targeted towards paying for stocking programs. This would be the most fair way to ensure that only those who are blatantly poaching take more than they should.

[PurpleFloyd]

Biology tell us that big pike are a keystone species in any lake that has them. To take them out causes the whole ecosystem to shift towards more abundant, stunted fish of every species. Go take a aquatic ecology or fisheries class, this is taught as cold hard fact, not theory or opinion.They have the studies to show it.

You could say the same about Wolves and Mountian Lions ( Was going to type cougar but know that would cause someone to post a picture of some 50+ YO woman with too much makeup ) Yet I don't see a lot of the hunting population use it to defend their existence. (BTW, I do agree with you)

[live4chrome]

Fisheries management is a whole different ball game from the management of a deer herd. Its a bit more complex.

In the end, we can't continue to harvest big pike at the rate we have been. Something needs to be done, whether its a tag system, slot limits, or the new proposed regulations. With current regulations almost every large pike caught goes home on a stringer, in a live well, or in a bucket.

Its up to us to decide the future of our lakes.

The average size of our fish has dropped so much in the last 27 years I have been fishing in Minnesota, Im afraid to see what it will be like in another 25. Lakes full of hammer handle pike and 6" sunfish. Thats already what the metro is.

Im all for harvesting fish, but it must be done responsibly If we care about the future of our lakes.Its not as hard to release big fish as some people make it out to be.

[AWH]

It looks like Merkman is making a desperation Hail Mary attempt with that last post. So the northern pike problems that are common in the majority of our lakes are a muskie issue? That's funny stuff!

Aaron

[delcecchi]

It looks like Merkman is making a desperation Hail Mary attempt with that last post. So the northern pike problems that are common in the majority of our lakes are a muskie issue? That's funny stuff!

Aaron

Nah, he is saying to allow the spearers to stab the big pike because anyone who angles can muskie fish instead.

[20lbSloughShark]

Nobody here wants all trophies all the time. I can't believe you can catch so many small pike in MN, and think this is acceptable. We might as well cut down all the trees because this state will never be fully forested again. I am completely against the proposed regulations for the whole NE part of the state, but the other 2/3 are in desperate need of attention. Northern pike are the top predatory fish in MN, and the health of the population directly affects every other fish in the lake. I want healthy lakes, and opportunities for everyone to fish them. Those two things can't happen without compromise. I have yet to see a better plan than slot limits.

[merkman]

I want healthy lakes, and opportunities for everyone to fish them. Those two things can't happen without compromise.

[merkman]

It looks like Merkman is making a desperation Hail Mary attempt with that last post. So the northern pike problems that are common in the majority of our lakes are a muskie issue? That's funny stuff!

Aaron

Only if the renaming of the minnesota muskie alliance to the minnesota musky pike alliance its funny to you.

When they successfully garble up the northern pike responsible harvest in Minnesota as much as they have with the summer time only catch and release only muskie fishery and then have to change their name to the minnesota muskie pike sunfish alliance then it will be totally laughable.

There are WAY more pounds of sunfish harvested in Minnesota than there are northern pike afterall.

.

[20lbSloughShark]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that you don't darkhouse spear.....

Wrong, but its pretty rare that I do. When I spear, I stay off slot limit lakes. When I want trophies, I angle. I wouldn't hesitate on a 30"+ fish while spearing however. I am willing to give up some angling privileges, but I have not seen a plan to do it in an effective manner yet. I'm willing to work together, but I have yet to see you post any proposed idea.

[merkman]

Wrong, but its pretty rare that I do. When I spear, I stay off slot limit lakes.

Cool

So if Minnesota went to a statewide slot broke into 3 zones with a slot limit on every lake in Minnesota where would you darkhouse spear (other than another state of course)?

I harvest 18 to 25 inch pike primarily from winter kill lakes in central MN.

I have little to no interest in harvesting 30 + inch fish to eat.

Yet with the proposed changes (a 22 to 30 inch protected slot region wide) I would not be able to responsibly practice my sport of darkhouse spearing anywhere near my house.

I will not risk an arrest record for darkhouse spearing a 22.25 inch pike after a failed underwater tail pinch nor am I interested in throwing dead fish back in the lake no mater the method they were killed by.

You consider slots the best solution... i certainly don't.

No thank you.... I'm not drinking the kool-aid.

-Merk

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[AWH]

Merk, you wouldn't be happy if you didn't have anything to complain about. You make that abundantly clear with every post that you make. I'm sure that Muskies Inc, the MMPA, and anyone associated with muskies in anyway owes you a personal apology for caring about the fisheries as a whole, and not just one species or each person's "right" to harvest anything that they want if it's done "responsibly".

Aaron

[merkman]

Merk, you wouldn't be happy if you didn't have anything to complain about. You make that abundantly clear with every post that you make. I'm sure that Muskies Inc, the MMPA, and anyone associated with muskies in anyway owes you a personal apology for caring about the fisheries as a whole, and not just one species or each person's "right" to harvest anything that they want if it's done "responsibly".

Aaron

have a nice day arron

sorry to offend you by not buying what you are selling.

.

[AWH]

Yet with the proposed changes (a 22 to 30 inch protected slot region wide) I would not be able to responsibly practice my sport of darkhouse spearing anywhere near my house.

Don't let the facts get in the way, Merk. May as well tell us that those proposals have a 20" to 40" protected slot. But that might be too blatant of a lie to sneak past people.

Aaron

[merkman]

Yet with the proposed changes (a 22 to 30 inch protected slot region) I would not be able to responsibly practice my sport of darkhouse spearing anywhere near my house.

[live4chrome]

Merk- I see your point in this region. I would be surprised if that wasn't amended to 10 under 22" and 2 over 22" with a max size cap. it would fix the issues with spearing but still do a pretty good job protecting I would definitely support that.

I have no issues with protecting the 30 plus fish regs in the me zone, which is where I live.

[AWH]

Not getting bent out of shape at all, Merk. As I've stated before, I just like it when discussions are based on actual facts. Something that you willingly stray from more than you stick to them. You like to talk about "sportsman against sportsman". But it sure seems that you are the one that likes to resort to that tactic, not others (until you push their buttons enough to get them to turn on you). Why else would you feel the need to use false information and extreme hypotheticals that you and everyone else knows have no chance in happening?

Interesting tactics that you have. And if you really believe what you say, I feel sorry for your level of paranoia that you have.

My slots? Do I support slots for pike? Sure I do. They have proven to be very effective on most waters where they have been used. Do I think they are the only way? Hardly. And I'm open to looking and listening to alternatives if they can achieve the same results. Who wouldn't? You say there has to be a better way. And maybe there is. But if there is, maybe we should work to that end rather than fighting with blatant mis-information. The biggest obstacle there is that we absolutely need more harvest of the smaller pike. How do you achieve that without somehow restricting (I didn't say eliminate) the harvest of the medium to larger sized pike?

I know you like to paint the picture that anyone that supports more restrictive pike regulations (when it comes to the medium to larger fish) are somehow anti-spearing and anti-harvest...yet another fallacy that you cling to with every step. But nearly every time that I have been on the ice in the last 6 to 8 years, it has been in a spear house. So do you think I am anti-spearing or want spearing to go away?

Stick to factual information, and I'm sure you will find many more people that you see eye to eye with. But you have to be willing to admit that it's not you against the world for that to happen.

Aaron

[20lbSloughShark]

I am neither for the proposed plan to split the state into 3 sections, or slot limits on every lake. That's why I like slot limits, they are only on a select few lakes.

[merkman]

I am neither for the proposed plan to split the state into 3 sections, or slot limits on every lake.

[DaMoose]

I personally don't see this working.

What I see this doing is people harvesting two over 26", then going home. To me this would defeat the whole purpose of the protected slots. My proposal would be: 10 fish under 22", with no protected slot, and 2 fish over 22". Only 1 of the over 22" can be larger than 30". I would also propose a tag system with only 1 over 36" per year per angler, no matter the harvest method. I feel that this would be a fair compromise for all methods. It would encourage the harvest of smaller pike, but not restrict the use of a spear, for the failed underwater tail pinch. It would also protect a large portion of the fish over 30". This is just my opinion, that I feel would be affective, yet fairly easily enforced. I would still like to see limited lakes with the 24" to 36" protected slot.

[live4chrome]

Good idea however the problem they have is that fish over 30" are so uncommon that it is very rare to catch 2 over 30" in a day, so the one over 30" reg does nothing to protect them.

[DaMoose]

It does do more than just the 2 over 26" though, as proposed a single person could take 2 over 30" or even 40" for that matter. Between Christmas and New Years, my buddy and I sat in the same spot everyday (4-7hrs/day) for a week. We seen an average of 10 fish per day, and in that week we only seen one under 30". We ended up only spearing 3 fish in those 7 days,1-25",1-31", & 1-32". The 2 over 30" we took, we missed judged, we were thinking they were 28" to 29".

[MontanaMax]

Still haven't heard what you would propose as a regulation to enhance the numbers of large pike in our lakes.

Have DNR do whatever they did in Mille Lacs for the walleyes there to pike waters statewide. All trophies and slot, no eaters.

[20lbSloughShark]

Mille Lacs? lets see, they did nothing in particular, allowed over harvesting, allowed all kinds of invasive species into the lake, watched the walleye population crash, and now that its back on an increase they tightened down the slot to an impossible level. I sure hope you were being sarcastic.