Opening bass season earlier.... A view from the MN DNR

[Mark Christianson]

I emailed the DNR the other day asking several questions regarding the current opening dates(specifically why Northern MN is earlier than southern MN), possible C/R regs if the opener coincided with the walleye opener, and so on.....
Here is the DNR reply:
At this time, we are not planning on proposing any changes to the bass
opener. However, this request and your recommendation has been
suggested in the past and discussed. To date we haven't changed the
bass opener due to wanting to give some protection to spawning bass and
hopefully give them a break from some of the fishing pressure. The
literature has begun to show that bass nests can have negative impacts
by pulling these fish off of them during the spawn. Consequently,
Minnesota has taken a very conservative approach to our regulations.

To answer your question about the earlier bass season for northern
Minnesota, this change was done when Minnesota was managing against
smallmouth bass due to them competing with lake trout. By opening the
season earlier, it might have been possible for anglers to harvest those
unwanted bass and help control bass populations in those areas of
competition. Although our management efforts have changed, the opener is
now tradition and would be very hard to change at this point in time.

[Guest]

Just goes to show you that the DNR is more concerned about TRADITION than biological fact. Pretty sad.

[Jig Master]

For the last three years when I have went out on bass opener my buddy and I have caught bass off of spawning beds. We don't fish for meat and every fish we have ever caught off a bed has gone back into the water. So why can't the DNR just open the season two weeks earlier and have it be catch and release only. Fish are already being hammered on the beds anyways and a bunch of guys go after them purposfully with crappie tackle anyhow.

[carlcmc]

no i support them opening the season after the spawn. that is smart management.

[Mark Christianson]

Then why do they open it before the spawn up north?

[Deitz Dittrich]

Many years, including this one... Bass season opens before spawn. Even with the seasons they have now!

[Mark Christianson]

Not just people targeting them with crappie gear....
I watched 4 boats the bass fishing the night before bass opener, going around the bay where my parents cabin is located.

And I don't want to hear they were pike fishing. 2 of the boats were using surface frogs, one of the boats was out well after dark throwing spinner baits in lilly pads, and the last boat was fishing with plastic worms.
I was [PoorWordUsage]ed, but just bit my lip.

[This message has been edited by biglakeba$$ (edited 06-09-2004).]

[Dan Wood]

I agree with others, the current opener isn't late enough if they really want to protect these fish during the spawn. They are still spawning in most areas of the state by opener. The season as-is makes little sense... May as well open it up for C&R earlier in my opinion.

I think the fish population can take it. The river has no season and gets pressured very hard during the spawn, yet remains an outstanding fishery.

[Mark Christianson]

Question:
On many topics out here it comes down to "If you don't like something, start making the efforts to change it."

OK, I want to make an effort to change this.

But how??? I emailed the DNR with my thoughts, and they replied that they are in no hurry to do any changes.

There must be someway to pull together and make a voice for change.
But how?
Go to St Paul and visit with the execs in the DNR?
Any thoughts on some methods or vehicles for change?

[BigMike]

I too am in agreement with an earlier C&R restriction... maybe even C&R later too (May 15 - June 15 C&R only???) to protect against spawning vulnerability. If it's spawning vulnerability they are worried about, you would think that would help.

As for making change, BLB - try emailing your DNR contact back and see what they would suggest as the first steps to seeing this changed. Maybe even contact your local State Representative's office for a direction to start.

I also think of the economic factors that may or may not benefit from an early C&R and I think that it would cut down on the ambiguity of "are they bass fishing or not" and allow CO's to concentrate on bigger issues as well as maybe draw more out of state fishing instead of MN residents paying to go out of state (like to going to WI for earlier opener).

I do understand some of the DNR's current position as even a few minutes off the nest can result in predators eating the fry, but as mentioned above, every year spawning happens at different times. Take this year for example, opener happened at or before the spawn which does nothing for conservation but make bass anglers wait an additional 2 weeks for opener. C&R could help prevent that from happening.

[Lost]

I've been questioning this same thing a lot myself. I think the opener for bass should be the same as walleye and northerns. I mean, earlier opener in northern part of the state and Wisconsin's opener is earlier than ours, but are these fisheries suffering? I haven't heard any complaints about it.

I guess we could start with a petition? Or maybe get some established organization to help us out, such as B.A.S.S.?

[Mark Christianson]

How about the MN Bass Federation?

Any of you folks out there?????
Help!!!!!

[smallie_hawgin]

BLB,
Probably the best way to make things happen on this type of topic would be some type of petitionand/or HSOforum etc. Then when say all the fm bassers get on board with a concept reg like a C&R from walleye opener to June 30 or something similar bring it to the attention of all the area managers, regional managers and finally the head folks in fisheries. Then it is a matter of also contacting the state reps for your area. But be cautious, our state has a long history with political influence on biology, so sometimes if changes are viewed as politically motivated rather than grass-roots, some folks may be reluctant (ie bilogists). The best approach is to have a common grass-roots effort from a large voice like FM, and other common folks. Keep up the work, iut might pay off! I know I will do what I can to help.

[united jigsticker]

Here's a question I pose:

It'd be interesting to know what the success rate is for the Bass getting back to their own beds once removed via angling.

If you drag a fish 30 yards by reeling it in, how long does it take for them to find their way back to the nest they came off of?

I am betting a fish could swim a mile from the nest and then go right back to it, but once you pull it away scared and thrashing and then remove it from the water, mess around a few seconds, and put it back, how long, if at all, does it take to regain it's bearings?

I guess they would only know with electronically tagged fish.

------------------
Good fishing,
UJ
[email protected]

[Mark Christianson]

I know just the guy....

Smallie_Hogger, where are you????

[BUSHWAC]

United Jigsticker- Lets not forget about the time it takes to break out the camera and take a few pictures of those fat pigs that just got sucked off a spawning bed!

[smallie_hawgin]

On the nest abondoning and return issue: Smallmouths and largemouths have both been studied pretty extensively. Both from radio telemetry and from external tags. In each case that I have read about in the Journals, the fish return quickly to the beds. Even in the extreme case of tournaments removing fish miles from beds. (Although the time to return was probably too long.) The key factor in Central MN is the presence/abscence of other predators on the eggs and fry. In the case of the Miss and smallies there really is not much of a predator base to inflict any harm to nest while temporarily displaced for a fight and a photo. In the case of say Sylvia Lake in Wright County, there are so many bass there that even if the abundant small bluegill get a few it won't hurt things. The greatest impact of allowing a C&R reg while very rare, would be to a fishery where bass recruitment is low and and bluegill or other nest predator density is high. Either way the cases where bass recruitment would be negatively affected would probably be few and far between. Hope this helps.

[Mark Christianson]

Hope this helps????

If this isn't clear and concise, I do not know what would be.

Thanks very much.
And if anyone can dispute your facts, I would love to see where they get the data to fight it.
Great job SH!

Let's start making our movement. You know where to find me.

[Duffman]

Facts????
What Facts?????
Looks like opinion to me.

[Mark Christianson]

I'll let smallie_hawgin respond to that.

I will say it is fact right out of official studies that have been done.

Feel free to expand on that smallie_hawgin.

[Dan Wood]

I have read studies as well that show bass return to the same area they were caught when relocated by tournament fisherpeople. This takes time in some cases for the fish to get back miles away from where they were caught. This was a pretty extensive study and had some good information - fish were tagged and tracked.

Taking a bass from their bed and relocating to tournament headquarters during the spawn, is not going to help the bass population for sure. They may make it back, but the eggs will be gone by predators (if they had spawned). If not, it could disrupt their spawn (I'm not sure they would find another spawning area in time or not, maybe they would).

This is trivial though, if they opened the season for C&R, it would mean that fish need to be returned to the water immediately. This includes tournaments - no weigh-ins of fish during this time. If you pull a fish from it's bed and return it back to the water, it will typically return. I've seen it many times. I've hooked fish and lost them, only to come back the same day and catch them on the same bed. As long as you keep the early season C&R, you shouldn't have the relocation factor to deal with. I would be in favor of making it C&R only from the regular opener until the current opener. I wouldn't like to see the C&R extended beyond the current opener at this time, because it will turn people away from MN tournament fishing if they need to wait until mid June to hold a tournament. Once tournament fishing evolves, as I believe it will, I would be in favor of C&R 100% of the season. With all of the gamefish in MN, I don't think people need to keep bass ever.

I saw on T.V. footage of the first ever BassMasters Classic. 30 years ago I think it was?? Anyway, they all brought their bass in on stringers! We have come along way, and you can be sure things will keep changing for the better. Livewells were the first real improvement for tournament fisherpeople, digital cameras and camcorders the next in my opinion. The future is a pure digital weigh-in. Big screen T.V. at the weigh-in instead of scales and baskets...

[Duffman]

I guess ya missed the results of one study;

Targeting nesting males, even when a catch-and-release spring season allows it, affects recruitment.

A negative relationship exists between the time it takes a male to return to its nest after being released and the rate of nest abandonment.

When a male takes 10 minutes to return to the nest, the eggs and fry are typically preyed upon more than 90 percent of the time, and over 90 percent of such nests are abandoned.

When males return to the nest in just two minutes, more than half the nests are still deserted.

Or a second study;

In 1996, a three-year largemouth bass tracking and displacement study was initiated in conjunction with Dr. Mark Ridgway of the Harkness Fisheries Research Station (MNR) in Algonquin Park. The purpose of the study was to determine the effect of catch-and-release angling practices on the movement of largemouth bass populations. Sonar and radio tags were implanted into 50 largemouth that were then displaced at various distances.

The study was completed in 1998 and proved the following: Largemouth bass have very small home ranges (less than 1 km2). Of the fish that were displaced, 79% did not return home and no largemouth (in the study) returned home after being displaced more than 8 km. Mark Ridgeway’s report is due to be published in the North American Journal of Fisheries Management and will be posted on our HSOforum soon after.

[Dan Wood]

Duffman,
Part of the point on this is that the fish are typically still spawning during opener as-is. AND, how many of these fish are caught by crappie anglers during the current closed season anyway?

Part of the reason bass lay up to 40,000 or more eggs is because predators do get some of these eggs. If all or even a high percentage of these hatched we would have a serious over population and a stunted or weak fish population would likely result. Predators will get some of the eggs regardless, if it isn't an angler pulling the fish off the nest it could be another fish, turtle, etc. It may be true that predators will get some of the eggs if you pull a fish up off it's nest (your assuming this is a male that is being pulled off the nest). Your also assuming the fish has deposited it's eggs. The time that the male is guarding the eggs is pretty short - 2-5 days typically. The females are the fish tournament anglers are targeting. When they are on the nest, they have not yet deposited. They leave the nest after they lay eggs. The males stay to protect the nest during this short period.

[Duffman]

Mr. Wood.....
"Part of the point on this is that the fish are typically still spawning during opener as-is. AND, how many of these fish are caught by crappie anglers during the current closed season anyway?"

Don't you really mean; "how many of these fish are caught by bass anglers pretending to be crappie fishing during the current closed season anyway"

[Dan Wood]

Here is a study that shows if they are released within 3 miles of capture site they have a much better chance of returning. I can't find the initial study, this appears to be less convincing.

---------
"Finally, analysis of movement data showed clearly that fish released at their capture site generally stayed there (66.7%) while those displaced were usually caught elsewhere (only 25.4% of that group stayed where released). Fish were caught up to 19 miles from their release site. Bass also showed a clear homing tendency if released 3 miles from the capture site. Forty-five per cent were caught back at their original capture site. Only 12.5% and 6.7% made it home from release sites ranging from 5 to 7 miles and 11 to 12 miles from their capture locations respectively."