Spielman should be fired

[PurpleFloyd]

All fine and dandy but the secondary has so many holes it seems at this oint that many DE's is overkill.

[FISHINGURU]

It's a whole new defense now, the Tampa 2 was easy to shred when only bringing the front 4 and everyone else dropping into a zone, it was also so easy for opposing QB's to read.

We are going to a 4-3/3-4 hybrid defense now with guys changing positions and rotating. It will be nice to see a real defense, I won't have to change the channel to see one.

To beat the great QB's you have to knock them off their spot and pressure them, all of them look like Blunder when they start getting knocked around and hurried. With having so many guys and bringing pressure from different spots they won't know where it's coming from.

Brady,Peyton, Bree's, ect, all look horrible when they are getting pressured and knocked down.

I hear ya though, you still need guys that can cover but when bringing the heat you don't need them to cover for as long. I think Rhodes and Smith are going to have big seasons this year, Munnerlyn is going to be solid and bring that tough hard hitting mentality like Winfield did.

This defense is going to play fast and be physical, I think Zim can turn this thing around and make this unit a top 10 defense this season.

[PurpleFloyd]

I guess that I am not following you. The Dungy 2 defense you are berating was designed to stop the pass, not the run. It relies on getting pressure from the front 4 which is what you are proposing we are going to see from the front 4.

I hope you are wrong about using a hybrid defense. To me hybrid means you aren't committed to one or the other and it forces the coaches to teach and the players to learn multiple concepts which increases the odds of confusion and mistakes. I am more a fan of keep it simple and let the players natural talent shine without making them think about what they have to do.

Hopefully what they do will work but nearly 5 decades of experience has made me very skeptical.

[BuckSutherland]

I will take the guard now. At least we can protect what we have. We invested heavily in Peterson. At least we should give him a chance to make the first guy miss. Pretty sure Vlad Duccasse isnt gonna do that. Go with Yankey from Stanford.

And we land Yankey in Round 5. I saw him as 3rd or 4th in many prospects.

[DrJuice1980]

Solid pick that we needed bad. Now get incognito and our line looks pretty tough.

[FISHINGURU]

I guess that I am not following you. The Dungy 2 defense you are berating was designed to stop the pass, not the run. It relies on getting pressure from the front 4 which is what you are proposing we are going to see from the front 4.

I hope you are wrong about using a hybrid defense. To me hybrid means you aren't committed to one or the other and it forces the coaches to teach and the players to learn multiple concepts which increases the odds of confusion and mistakes. I am more a fan of keep it simple and let the players natural talent shine without making them think about what they have to do.

Hopefully what they do will work but nearly 5 decades of experience has made me very skeptical.

The part your not following is with the Tampa 2 you rely ONLY on the pressure of the front 4, and if the front 4 aren't getting pressure your zone gets shredded. The LB's drop into coverage they rarely came in on the blitz. All the guys pretty much lined up in the same spots and did the same thing every play.

Safties stay deep, CB's play zone, the LB's drop deep, and then trying to get pressure on the QB with ONLY the front 4. We let anyone do anything underneath they wanted as long as we kept everything in front of us.

I guess you like the guy lining up in the same spot doing the same thing every play. Did you also like Mustpukes playbook? That was nice and simple and not very confusing either.

It will be nice to see creative defensive plays that get all your best players on the field at the same time. Guys are going to have to learn multiple positions and techniques because Zimmer likes to rotate and move guys around, if they can't learn then they should just stay home.

In this system we will be bringing heat from everywhere not just the front 4, we will be bringing it with LB's, CB's, and S. A guy might be on the left side, right side, hand on the ground or standing up, he might be playing OLB or DE.

In a Hybrid you can still be commited to a 4-3 but you will still run a 3-4,46, flex, ect.

It is a relief we were pretty vanilla on both sides of the ball and now we will be just the opposite.

[PurpleFloyd]

First off you have zero clue how they are going to bring pressure because all you have to go on is vague references to what they might do based on random interviews and rampant speculation.

As far as the T2 pressure, sure,the primary pressure schematically is designed to come from the front 4 but it was certainly not exclusive. Did you never watch a game or has it just slipped your mind that our LBs and DBs had blitz assignments in the defense?

Do you not remember seeing Jared Allen, Kevin Williams and Griffen dropping into coverage while a LB or CB rushed? They also had blitz packages that brought DBs and LBs at the QB along with the front 4. Before you call me out on schemes make sure you have your stuff together.

Right now the scheme is going to be less crucial than the coaching. The coaching has been the weakest part of this team and while I hope it improves they are going to have to show it on the field.

[zepman]

Agree on the coaching but the key to any "scheme" is it's players. That's what we saw the Vikes try and fix this past weekend.

[FISHINGURU]

I actually do have a clue, all you have to do is watch what Zimmer has done with all his other players and defenses, just take a look at the type of players we just drafted to fit his scheme.

We must of watched different games because the Vikings rarely ever blitzed or changed their schemes. Sure they did a handful of times a game whoopity doo. Not only that they rarely play any other coverage besides zone...hey lets only rush the front 4 and have everyone else drop into zone 90% of the time and get shredded, or better yet lets drop Jared into coverage on 3rd down and bring some slow piestain LB on a blitz a couple times a game!! I also remember waiting all game for them to bring Winfield in on a blitz and he would smoke the QB and then we wouldn't ever do it again.

Gets pretty boring watching an offense doing the same plays over and over and we do nothing to change it or stop it. No such thing as adjustments with our old schemes on either side of the ball.

Change the channel sometimes and watch how a real defense plays and uses their weapons. You thought we were going overkill on DE's and I was just trying to explain why, sorry this won't be the defense you have loved for the past 10 years that just sits back and gets shredded weekly in the passing game.

[YiGGiN4SLoBS]

Sorry Purple, but i have to agree with GURU on this one. There is a reason that pretty much every other team in the NFL has abandoned the cover 2. The other team knew what the vikes were gonna run before THEY knew what they were gonna run.

Id rather have a defense that switches up looks and personnel constantly and makes the opposing QB over think everything. Zimmer clearly likes rotating d lineman, i think thats why SPielman took so many DE's. Its worked for him too so i have no problem with it.

I bet your going to enjoy watching Zimmers "hybrid" d this year, wait and see. But then again, pretty hard to be any worse then Leslies d was last year. I think a chimpanzee in a vikings sweatshirt could have coached the defense better last year

[zepman]

BRUTAL defense last year...just brutal!

It may take a few years to transform but Zimmer will bring a top ten defense to the Vikes shortly. Out with the old...in with the new.

Finally, the Vikes have added some passion and anger to their defense. Barr and Crichton play with passion and are tenacious...much like their head coach.

It'll be a joy watching these two chase down QB's the next XXX years.

BTW...Guru...great couple of posts out of you. Spot on!

[PurpleFloyd]

I actually do have a clue, all you have to do is watch what Zimmer has done with all his other players and defenses, just take a look at the type of players we just drafted to fit his scheme.

We must of watched different games because the Vikings rarely ever blitzed or changed their schemes. Sure they did a handful of times a game whoopity doo. Not only that they rarely play any other coverage besides zone...hey lets only rush the front 4 and have everyone else drop into zone 90% of the time and get shredded, or better yet lets drop Jared into coverage on 3rd down and bring some slow piestain LB on a blitz a couple times a game!! I also remember waiting all game for them to bring Winfield in on a blitz and he would smoke the QB and then we wouldn't ever do it again.

Gets pretty boring watching an offense doing the same plays over and over and we do nothing to change it or stop it. No such thing as adjustments with our old schemes on either side of the ball.

Change the channel sometimes and watch how a real defense plays and uses their weapons. You thought we were going overkill on DE's and I was just trying to explain why, sorry this won't be the defense you have loved for the past 10 years that just sits back and gets shredded weekly in the passing game.

First off I will start this by saying I am not a great fan of the Dungy 2 defense and certainly have wanted us to run something different for several years now.

That being said, whether you saw blitzes or not has nothing to do with the Tampa 2 defense. That was on inept coaching and a lack of commitment to bring in high end talent at the CB position and our lack of finding a high end MLB with the speed and talent to lock down the middle of the field and nothing to do with scheme. All you have to do is look back at the History of the Bucs since Dungy got there and you will see Ronde Barber is the most successful blitzing CB in the history of the NFL with 25 sacks. You don't get that if the scheme doesn't allow them to Blitz.

Your argument sounds so reminiscent to what we heard about how much better the Vikings offense was going to work under Childress after they got rid of Tice. Fans had zero clue what the offense would look like other than it was a WCO and not the vertical offense they saw under Green/Tice. It may have been a Kick A$$ offense if it had been coached and staffed properly

In closing all I can say is any defense or any offense can be successful if you have the right coaches and the right players. Are Zimmer and Company the right coaches for the job? I have no idea and have seen enough to know that you never know until they prove they can. He was decent with Cinnci but was passed over for a lot of years and never ran a defense that set the world on fire so I am going to sit back and let things unfold.

[PurpleFloyd]

I bet your going to enjoy watching Zimmers "hybrid" d this year, wait and see. But then again, pretty hard to be any worse then Leslies d was last year. I think a chimpanzee in a vikings sweatshirt could have coached the defense better last year

Explain how this hybrid defense is going to work. I am intrigued by the prospect but don't have the depth of understanding of it that some of you guys do.

What will it look like in base form and what adjustments are made on running downs vs. passing downs? Is it primarily man coverage in the secondary or zone? What type of gap assignments do the Tackles have and will we be using one Tackle or 3? Do the LB's stay in on passing downs or is one replaced with a DB?

[JAfish]

not sure spielman should be fired, but not sure about a QB with small hands who needs to wear gloves to hang onto and throw the ball. The only positive with the gloves is that when he his freezing his fingers off in the outdoor stadiums, he will be used to wearing gloves when throwing the ball or writing with an ink pen on the sidelines. one more thing, sounds like the Louisville Cardinals used short passing game the last 4 years! Sounds like a Ponder/T-Jack/Webb cross to me.

[FISHINGURU]

First off I will start this by saying I am not a great fan of the Dungy 2 defense and certainly have wanted us to run something different for several years now.

That being said, whether you saw blitzes or not has nothing to do with the Tampa 2 defense. That was on inept coaching and a lack of commitment to bring in high end talent at the CB position and our lack of finding a high end MLB with the speed and talent to lock down the middle of the field and nothing to do with scheme. All you have to do is look back at the History of the Bucs since Dungy got there and you will see Ronde Barber is the most successful blitzing CB in the history of the NFL with 25 sacks. You don't get that if the scheme doesn't allow them to Blitz.

Your argument sounds so reminiscent to what we heard about how much better the Vikings offense was going to work under Childress after they got rid of Tice. Fans had zero clue what the offense would look like other than it was a WCO and not the vertical offense they saw under Green/Tice. It may have been a Kick A$$ offense if it had been coached and staffed properly

In closing all I can say is any defense or any offense can be successful if you have the right coaches and the right players. Are Zimmer and Company the right coaches for the job? I have no idea and have seen enough to know that you never know until they prove they can. He was decent with Cinnci but was passed over for a lot of years and never ran a defense that set the world on fire so I am going to sit back and let things unfold.

Hey I agree every scheme has a place and time if you have the right players and coaches. Barber only averaged about a sack and a half a season and probably almost got a sack each time they blitzed him lol.

It is what it is though the Tampa 2 does not blitz very often, it's not part of the scheme, you need the guys to drop back into their zones. I don't know what else to tell ya.

What you see here is what you get most of the time, pretty easy to read and shred these days.

http://www.footballtimes.org/Article.asp?ID=167

[Juan Grande]

I think the "hybrid" part of it will be switching from 4-3 to 3-4 fronts and vice versa. I was a bit skeptical of the Barr pick, but if he's athletic enough to stay on the field for three downs as the strong side backer in 4-3 or outside in a 3-4 then I like the pick. Maybe the way to counter this trend of creating mismatches with big/athletic tight ends (Graham, Ebron, etc.) is to cover them with a LB who is equally big and athletic.

[pikestabber]

I was a bit skeptical of the Barr pick, but if he's athletic enough to stay on the field for three downs as the strong side backer in 4-3 or outside in a 3-4 then I like the pick.

And that's why I think you will like the pick. I don't know how long it'll take to "coach him up" or whatever, that's above my pay grade, but the kid has a ton of athleticism and the belief is he will be that 3 down guy for the exact reasons you mentioned. I think the fact that he is more inexperienced than some of the other guys we could have taken at LB might eventually work to our advantage. He is more of an empty slate that Zimmer can train his way. Zim's already talked about big plans for Barr as a weapon of sorts.

[BuckSutherland]

What the bleep was that tonight??

You cant tell me we couldnt have somehow moved back still gotten Barr, and then still found a way to take Manziel if they really wanted him. I would gladly trade our draft for what Cleveland accomplished. We might as well have just kept Junkson or keep rolling with Ponder. At least they didnt give much up to get Barfwater.

I did find his latest highlight reel for those of you interested.

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