Jaw Jackers and Automatic Fisherman in Minnesota!?!?

[MN BassFisher]

Hey guys, I thought I would share this here:

Minnesota is the only state in the nation banning the use of automatic fishing devices such as the Automatic Fisherman and Jaw Jacker.

It is benefical to use these devices because they offer the angler a faster hook set, preventing the injestion of the bait and reducing mortality to fish.

The concern behind these automatic style fishing devices is they are considered spring loaded. This is a misconception because technology has changed. The rod sits in reel seat, then is bent down into a clip. As the fish bites, it pulls on the line, disengages the clip, and releases the rod- thus setting the hook on the fish The angler then manually reels up the fish.

On the Great Lakes of Wisconsin, using the automatic fishing devices is very popular for lake trout, and in smaller lakes it is used for northern pike.

Depending on your opinion, you can sign a petition here and help get these devices legalized in Minnesota.

Link to petition here ----->Petition to Legalize Hook Setting Devices

[Hawg]

It says you're in Colorado. Why do you care? Do you have an interest in the company?

[jerkbait]

He is originally from MN i belive. I signed it.

[Lusid]

It says you're in Colorado. Why do you care? Do you have an interest in the company?

Bite his head off much.

He was from MN and moved out to CO.

[mwal]

In the State of where nothing is Allowed I see no reason why this is no different than a downrigger. Line is clipped into release rod is loaded fish pulls line from release rod springs up keeping tension on line hooking fish. No different than these devices.By the explanation the DNR uses downrigger's are not legal but they look the other way. On the Ice these are not legal. I really do not care. If you are fishing for finicky trout salmon they do make a difference. I have seen it in WI they do work better than standard tip up for trout. Plus It is more fun to fight the fish from rod and reel.

Mwal

[Vitreus]

Probably safer for the fish too.

[fishnowworknever]

mwal you're completely wrong in your statement regarding downriggers.

Downriggers are NOT illegal in MN and are actually referenced on the DNR's HSOforum as a suggestion to use for lake trout in and on MN trout lakes.

Has anyone asked the DNR if these devices are actually illegal? The NEW devices? If they are not "spring loaded" I'm not sure they can enforce a device that simply uses the rod itself to put tension on the line without the use of a spring.

[Alagnak]

No way. Just like the thought of using 2 lines. It would ruin the fishery here in MN. Don't go down this slippery slope. ;-)

[Hawg]

I wasn't trying to bite his head off. I just thought it was interesting a Colorado guy was doing the petition. In most cases there is an underlying motive. You don't know till you ask.

[Vitreus]

Signed. Thanks for the heads up.

[fishnowworknever]

Where does it state in the regulations that you cannot use an automatic hook set device? I'm searching and don't see it...

I see on page 14

"• The use of ex plo sives, firearms, chemicals (not in clud ing fish scents), spring

devices, or electricity for taking fish is unlawful"

Not spring loaded you say? Not sure how they can enforce that law against these "non spring loaded" devices...

[mwal]

These device use the bent rod to set the hook just like a down rigger. The DNR says they are not legal but downriggers are legal I do not see a difference. That is the point I am making they both use the stored energy of a bent fishing rod to set the hook and keep slack out of the line after a strike. Mechanically no difference but yet one is legal one is not.

Mwal

[MN BassFisher]

It says you're in Colorado. Why do you care? Do you have an interest in the company?

Like others said, I was born and raised in Minnesota and relocated out here to CO in January for work. I bought 2 of them to use at my cabin in Western Wisconsin and really liked them. After using them extensively in WI and CO I don't see a reason they should be illegal in MN. They really are better for the fish than tipups. That's a fact. And then I have my positive opinions of them as well. Some people still would prefer to use tipups and that's fine - there isn't a right or wrong answer in this discussion but the fact that the DNR doesn't even let you make that choice (tipup or hook setting device) on your own is too bad.

[fishnowworknever]

These device use the bent rod to set the hook just like a down rigger. The DNR says they are not legal but downriggers are legal I do not see a difference. That is the point I am making they both use the stored energy of a bent fishing rod to set the hook and keep slack out of the line after a strike. Mechanically no difference but yet one is legal one is not.

Mwal

Exactly my thoughts as well...

[fishnowworknever]

One more thing...don't try and go to jawjackers dot com from work...NSFW

[MN BassFisher]

One more thing...don't try and go to jawjackers dot com from work...NSFW

Hahaha I did that last year, I know exactly what you're talking about!

Jaw Jacker Fishing

[Sea Hage]

mwal, Downriggers set the hook! I don't think so. Have you ever fished with riggers ? When a fish hits the lure the line releases from the ball and the rod stands stright up until the slack is taken up, then the rod bends under the weight of the fish, the fish hooks itself.

[GIANT1]

My jaw jacker is my right arm

[Chad Holst]

I don’t know if i buy the whole "better for the fish" argument. yes, im sure at some level this could be true, but so would NOT fishing at all, so let’s not pretend that we are doing for the fishes health.

Although i have never been a fan of the Auto Hook/Auto Reel systems (yes, i know they are not the same thing) I do see, after others on this forum have pointed out, that they are a plausible piece of equipment for some types of fishing, like steelhead.

The issue is that these pieces of equipment are all tied together in how they operate, to some degree. Take the YoYo for example, it reels in the line for you. Many anglers used it in their perm ice houses to fish extra lines, and if DNR showed up they slapped the reels and it zipped the line in quick.

I know these products are not the same, and that they work on both spring and non-spring type set ups. I think the spirit of the law is to make sure in Minnesota that anglers are not fishing, while...NOT fishing. Thats why we have to be in a certain distance of any deadlines(tip ups), or why we cant use trot lines, etc...

Something to think about...Someone said that the bent tip style rod setters are not spring loaded. I think that if you bend a rod to "load it" and then the release causes the rod to snap up and set the hook would be turning the rod into a spring. Isn’t that exactly what a spring is? I don’t see anything WRONG with this style of equipment, but I’m just saying that if you are arguing that its not spring loaded...well, it is one big spring.

I’m of the line of thinking that as long as the goals of the current laws are being met, and a piece of equipment isn’t helping circumvent that goal, then let people use it. I didn’t write the law or even have a say in it, so I have no idea what the real goal of many of these laws are, but you need to ask yourself “why is this here” and then you can answer “will this hurt that laws goals”. I wouldn’t think it would, but I don’t know all the info to make a decision to the point that I start signing online petitions to change the rules.

I would however be in favor of them making species or water specific rules on the use of "auto-set" type systems for steelies on certain waters or durring certain seasons.

[MN BassFisher]

I don’t know if i buy the whole "better for the fish" argument. yes, im sure at some level this could be true, but so would NOT fishing at all, so let’s not pretend that we are doing for the fishes health.

Haha that's true. C'mon guys, if we really care about the fish - let's give up fishing entirely!

[Chad Holst]

Quote:

I see on page 14

"• The use of ex plo sives, firearms, chemicals (not in clud ing fish scents), spring

devices, or electricity for taking fish is unlawful"

SPRING DEVICES.

lets do a test. If someone had never heard of the "auto set" style equipment, and you had to explain to them how it worked and what it did, could you easily explain it without using the word "spring"? Me either. This equipment turns the rod into a "spring device". thats how it works. The DNR is pretty clear that it doesnt allow you to do this.

it doesnt say you cant use "springs" as in the helical steal bent to a shape that recoils...most of us have these "springs" in our reel drag systems or on the flags on our tip ups...BUT, we are not using a spring device to take the fish. thats what the law clearly is trying to prevent.

You cant use gas to take fish, but you can use gas in your truck, to drive to the ice house, and then heat your house with gas, then drill a hole with a gas auger....to get to the point that your actually "fishing".

I think people are playing dumb on this, so they can argue they should be able to use them for unattended uses. EXCEPT those that have a legitimate argument about specific fish in specific waters durring specific times of the year. ie, steel head, or some other situation similar to this.

[mwal]

Sea Hage

Yes I own 4 Cannon Down riggers and use them. Watch some videos of these devices. They are the same as using a release and a 10 ft rigger rod loaded to the max fish pulls hard enough to hook itself trips release rod pops straight. Looks exactly like a down rigger strike on some of the Automatic fisherman videos. Like I said I do not own any of them nor am I buying any to use at my cabin in WI. IT is just contradictory in how MN rules on things. Perhaps you do not remember that it was only 30 years ago that tip ups were not legal in MN and legal in WI as they were consider automatic device as well. Frustrated me to no end I had separate gear for MN and for my cabin in WI. Same as the recently changed rules on quick strike rigs and treble hooks.

Mwal

[Slabasaurus]

I don’t know if i buy the whole "better for the fish" argument. yes, im sure at some level this could be true, but so would NOT fishing at all, so let’s not pretend that we are doing for the fishes health.

Eh? that's takin it a bit far doncha think? Not everything's black and white...

For instance, the rare instance you'll find me using bait (catfish, occasional tipup fishing), I'm using circle hooks to minimize the risk of deep hooked fish. To date, it's worked pretty darn well. I'm not going to pretend this is 100% safe for the fish, but it's definitely better than a small aberdeen hook with live bait... or a treble hook.

I can see the argument that these 'jaw jackers' or whatever could definitely help minimize deep hooked fish though.

[aanderud]

I think people are playing dumb on this, so they can argue they should be able to use them for unattended uses. EXCEPT those that have a legitimate argument about specific fish in specific waters durring specific times of the year. ie, steel head, or some other situation similar to this.

I didn't hear anyone here argue that these aren't spring devices. The original poster just mentioned that we're the only state in the union who has made these things illegal, and they're actually BETTER for the fish than some alternatives that are legal (tip ups, for one). I can see where you may not want to sign a petition, but I don't buy your argument that it's no safer for the fish, or that we should simply stop fishing if we're doing it "for the fish". What kind of statement is that? Nonsense.

There are tons of products that are "better for the fish" than alternatives -- I'll give a few examples. Circle hooks are meant to avoid gut-hooking fish by the way they hook in the side of the mouth. Barbless hooks are mandated on some waters to protect fish by making the hooks easier to remove. Do you tell everyone who uses barbless hooks that they're really not doing it for the fish, and that they might as well quit fishing if they think they are? Some people use cradle type devices to hold their muskies in the water before they are released. In addition to products you can buy that are better for the fish, there are specific tactics you can use to increase a fish's survival rate if you plan to release it. Avoiding fishing in water as deep as 30 feet if you're planning to release the fish is one example.

I'd like to hear your arguments as to how a standard tip up is safer than jaw jacker for the fish. With the jaw jacker, the fish isn't running around for 30 seconds or more while someone comes to get it after seeing a flag, like it does with a tip-up. Hooking mortality has a pretty high correlation with how deep the hook is, and so a faster hookset should result in fewer fish killed. Do I have a scientific study that says so? No, but common sense tells me it's correct. Besides being better for the fish than a a tip up, I can see where the jaw jacker would be more fun because you get to fight the fish on a rod and reel, with a drag, after it is hooked -- versus pulling in line on a tip up.

So, safer AND more fun. Seems like a win-win to me. Not sure why you're ranting so hard against them. Yoyo? You brought that one up, not the original poster. I'm signing the petition, even though I have no intention of ever using one of these. (I don't fish tip ups either). Do I think it'll get anything done? Probably not. But it's got less chance if I don't. I'm tired of MN being so rule-heavy all the time, and I guess the only way to change that is to make some noise.

[Chad Holst]

Quote:

I didn't hear anyone here argue that these aren't spring devices.

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Please see below

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Quote:

Where does it state in the regulations that you cannot use an automatic hook set device? I'm searching and don't see it...

I see on page 14

"• The use of ex plo sives, firearms, chemicals (not in clud ing fish scents), spring

devices, or electricity for taking fish is unlawful"

Not spring loaded you say? Not sure how they can enforce that law against these "non spring loaded" devices...