State Parks make up their own trout seasons?

[DTro]

OK all you great readers out there, tell me if its legal to use 3 lines on the st Croix river with only a MN license?

[ted4887]

OK all you great readers out there, tell me if its legal to use 3 lines on the st Croix river with only a MN license?

According to the OP of this thread, the proper procedure would be to ask a DNR officer and then do the opposite of what he tells you.

And why would anyone want 3 lines in the first place?

[Getanet]

OK all you great readers out there, tell me if its legal to use 3 lines on the st Croix river with only a MN license?

What day of the week are you fishing?

This feels like a trick question, but I'm probably a good test case since I've never fished a border water. Based on Page 73 of the 2013 Reg (page 76 of the online PDF) I would say no. For the section on MN-WI Border Waters it reads, "Two lines with a single lure or bait on each are permitted. If fishing with one line you may use two baits."

[Getanet]

By the way, it is much easier to research regulations online. Once you pull up the PDF of the booklet you can use the "find" tool to look for specific references that pertain to your situation. In this case, "border" to find any information on border water regulations.

I can see how it would be more difficult reading through the hard booklet. Not an excuse for running afoul of a regulation, just an observation.

[DTro]

Well yes, the point of my original reply was that the MN regs can be at times impossible to figure out, especially some of the border water and bait regulations.

[bobbymalone]

DTRO brings this up because you can fish 3 lines on the Croix over the ice because you can fish 3 lines in WI through the ice with a WI license. At least I think so, I'm not up to date on my WI regulations. But the MN reg book governs those with a MN fishing license. And it says two lines.

Two lines with a single lure or bait on each are permitted. If fishing

with one line you may use two baits.

[Alagnak]

So Bobby- are you going to answer the question or not? Not so easy to find is it? I think he's got a great point. And yes- you don't know the WI regs either. lol

[Slabasaurus]

According to the OP of this thread, the proper procedure would be to ask a DNR officer and then do the opposite of what he tells you.

[bobbymalone]

So Bobby- are you going to answer the question or not? Not so easy to find is it? I think he's got a great point. And yes- you don't know the WI regs either. lol

[DTro]

But the MN reg book governs those with a MN fishing license.

Well sort of.

As a MN resident with a MN license on territorial waters you are bound by the laws of the water you are fishing in. WI side of the river, WI laws. MN side MN laws.

So if anyone happens to be fishing border waters, I would suggest brushing up on their laws if you cross the center line.

Honestly I think trout regs are very hard to interpret. You have stamps, separate seasons from inland and stream. Separate seasons for winter/summer, slots, special C*R regs, live bait regs, etc, etc. That was my main point. Still didn't warrant going out and fishing once the answer was found...

[bobbymalone]

Well sort of.

As a MN resident with a MN license on territorial waters you are bound by the laws of the water you are fishing in. WI side of the river, WI laws. MN side MN laws.

[DTro]

Sorry, but you are wrong.

See how confusing it is?

[bobbymalone]

I'd like to see where you are coming up with that.

[Alagnak]

I'd like to see where you are coming up with that.

:-)

[DTro]

"When Minnesota's fishing regulations differ from a bordering state's regulations, Minnesota residents and persons fishing under a Minnesota nonresident license must comply with the Minnesota regulations and may only exercise the other state's more liberal fishing privileges in the waters of the bordering state."

"The law reads, to exercise the more liberal regulations you must be confined to the territorial waters of the more liberal state. Both WI and MN residents need residents licenses from their respective states, any other non-residents (aside from MN and WI) with a non-resident license from either WI or MN will allow them to fish the border waters. So broken down to simpler terms for WI / MN borders, if an angler wants to fish with three lines or any method allowed by WI they have to be in WI territorial waters. Unlike the Mississippi which is defined by a channel and channel markers, the St Croix’s border meanders and is unclear, when in doubt better stick to the east side of the river if you want to exercise WI regulations (more liberal = east side). Unlike Walleye opener on the St Croix, Sturgeon season begins Sept 1st for WI, MN opens Sept 4th. So, if someone wants to fish Sturgeon starting Sept 1st, they must be on the WI side of the river, if they would like to harvest one during that time they need WI Sturgeon tag. Sept 4th through Sept 30th, MN side will be open for Sturgeon fishing and harvesting with a tag. Then “catch and release” from Oct 1st through the 15th.

I hope this suffices your questions, please feel free to contact me with any future questions or concerns.

Thank you

Alex Gutierrez

Conservation Officer

Department of Natural Resources

Division of Enforcement"

[bobbymalone]

That's exactly what I said, with the exception of the "with that state's license" which it plainly says on page 63 of the reg book.

I don't have an email to C&P but that is how it was explained to me verbally by a wisconsin CO. Everything Officer Gutierrez says with the addition of needing a non-res license from the wisconsin.

[bobbymalone]

"with that state's license" is written in the 2012 and 2013 reg books. It is not present in the 2011 reg book.

[mainbutter]

Are the regs really that hard to understand? I know they are sometimes more complicated than our neighbors, particularly in regards to trout regs, but come on...

Having started off as a non-resident college student with a small bit of fishing time here, yes the MN regs are complicated, lengthy, and with many little details that are hard to keep straight unless you've been living here and dealing with them for a few years.

[DTro]

This is from SteveD, enjoy:

Like most Minnesota and Wisconsin border water fishermen I want to follow the fishing regulations of the states but at the same time I want to take advantage of the most advantageous and liberal fishing regulations available without breaking any laws or risk of getting a citation or fine. The border water fishing regulations between Minnesota and Wisconsin can be confusing. Most every border water angler has read and interpreted the regulations listed in their states fishing regulations. These individual interpretations have led to some long and interesting on-line discussions on what is or is not legal to do.

Over the last several years anglers have had e-mail correspondence with both WI and MN DNR Conservation Officers to clarify their interpretations of the regulations. These e-mail responses have been posted on-line on the different fishing HSOforum forums to try to clarify the “Do’s and Don’ts” of fishing the MN and WI border waters. This Cat Tip is a listing of the responses culled from the on-line forums with the names of the Conservation Officers listed. The focus of this Cat Tip is to clarify two key questions when fishing the border waters: #1 – How many lines may an angler fish when fishing the MN / WI border waters? ; #2 – Can a MN angler use game fish for bait when fishing MN / WI border waters the same as a WI angler is allowed?

RESPONSE #1: This is a 4 March 2008 e-mail from David Hausman, Wisconsin DNR Warden Supervisor for the Lower St Croix Team:

Steve,

I am responding to your question about differing regulations and number of lines. First of all ideally all of the regs would be the same, but unfortunately they are not. WI and MN have a reciprocity agreement for angling licenses which as you know allows anglers to fish anywhere in the border waters with either states license. Residents of MN or WI must use their home states lic. and non-residents may use either states lic. Where regulations differ anglers may only exercise the more liberal regulation within that states portion. So an angler may use 3 lines or baits in Wis. portion and 2 in MN portion. This is what WI law states and what past case law also says. MN DNR fishing pamphlets state that anglers must follow the rules of the state they are licensed in. We have been attempting to get this ironed out with MN so that current case law is followed, which basically says that if a person is on one states territorial waters and is complying with that states regulations the adjoining states more restrictive regulations cannot be enforced on that person. In other words if a person is in Wisconsin's territorial waters and is following WI law MN laws cannot be imposed on that person regardless of where they are from or which state they are licensed in. The center of the navigational channels is the line between the two states, a good USGS map will show the main channels and boundary of the states. We use the same line for enforcing Hunting regulations which are not governed by a reciprocity agreement. Hope this helps. If you are unsure if you are in WI or MN waters use no more than 2 lines/baits.

David A. Hausman

Warden Supervisor-Lower St Croix Team

Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources

890 Spruce St.

Baldwin WI 54002

() phone: (715) 684-2914

() fax: (715) 684-5940

() e-mail: [email protected]

RESPONSE #2: This is an e-mail from Alex Gutierrez, MN DNR Conservation Officer responding to the question of using 3-lines on the MN/WI border waters.

"The law reads, to exercise the more liberal regulations you must be confined to the territorial waters of the more liberal state. Both WI and MN residents need residents licenses from their respective states, any other non-residents (aside from MN and WI) with a non-resident license from either WI or MN will allow them to fish the border waters. So broken down to simpler terms for WI / MN borders, if an angler wants to fish with three lines or any method allowed by WI they have to be in WI territorial waters. Unlike the Mississippi which is defined by a channel and channel markers, the St Croix’s border meanders and is unclear, when in doubt better stick to the east side of the river if you want to exercise WI regulations (more liberal = east side). Unlike Walleye opener on the St Croix, Sturgeon season begins Sept 1st for WI, MN opens Sept 4th. So, if someone wants to fish Sturgeon starting Sept 1st, they must be on the WI side of the river, if they would like to harvest one during that time they need WI Sturgeon tag. Sept 4th through Sept 30th, MN side will be open for Sturgeon fishing and harvesting with a tag. Then “catch and release” from Oct 1st through the 15th.

I hope this suffices your questions, please feel free to contact me with any future questions or concerns.

Thank you

Alex Gutierrez

Conservation Officer

Department of Natural Resources

Division of Enforcement"

RESPONSE #3: This is an e-mail from MN DNR Conservation Officer Tyler Quandt responding to a question about of using 3-lines and bluegills for bait on the MN/WI border waters:

As a MN CO do you ticket WI Residents or Non Resident license holders for using bluegills or fishing with 3 lines on the MN side of P-4.

Brian, in regards to your first question. It is ILLEGAL for WI residents and people licensed as non-residents from WI to use Bluegills or fish with 3 lines on the MN side of the river. So yes they could get a ticket if they do it.

Am I wrong in saying that we need to follow the rules of the state we are licensed in from train track to train track. Of course a MN resident must be licensed in MN and WI from WI. Any other state can be licensed from whichever state they chose.

In regards to question number 2. Any person who can legally fish on the border waters would be able to use 3 lines on the WI side and be able to use Bluegills. If you refer to page 48 of the 2011 fishing synopsis it tells you that you can exercise more liberal fishing regulations as long as you are in the waters of the bordering state.

Your other statements about needing to be licensed by the state you live in are correct. Hope this helps, thanks.

Tyler Quandt (Edit: Pool 4 Area CO)

Conservation Officer

RESPONSE #4: This is an e-mail from 1LT Jason Peterson responding to a question about fishing 3-lines on MN/WI border waters. You can see he cuts right to the chase by stating “A MN resident with a valid MN angling license can use the more liberal regulation (in this case 3 lines) while angling on the WI side only.”

Subject: RE: MN/WI border regulations

Good afternoon sir!

It looks like a MN angler could legally fish with bluegill that the angler caught if fishing on the WI side of the river(s) as it is legal for WI anglers to use bluegill as bait in WI. Some people think that a MN angler could fish three lines on the WI side of the river(s). My interpretation is no, they cannot as page 48 states “Unless otherwise noted, all general regulations related to angling methods, licensing, seasons, limits, possession and transportation of fish, apply to border waters (see pages 9-13).” On page 57, it states only two lines may be used, so I treat that as “otherwise noted” and therefore MN anglers can only use two lines. Does a WI non-resident license get a MN angler that privilege?

Answer to your first question: A MN resident with a valid MN angling license can use the more liberal regulation (in this case 3 lines) while angling on the WI side only.

1LT Jason Peterson

District 14 Supervisor

MN DNR Division of Enforcement

651-460-8141

[email protected]

RESPONSE #5: This is an e-mail from Thomas VanHaren, WI Conservation Officer and DNR Policy Officer:

Brian,

I agree with the information that Jason Peterson of the Minnesota DNR Division of Enforcement provided below in his e-mail response.

The rules a person must follow when fishing on the Wis/Minn boundary waters is not dependent on which state the person lives in or which state issued their license. What determines which states rules an angler must follow is simply determined by the location (which state) the person is fishing. The reciprocity between the states only applies to accepting each others licenses on the waters defined as a boundary water. The one condition is that a resident of either state must hold a resident license from their home state when fishing on a boundary water. Anyone else may hold a Nonresident license from either state.

When the rules for fishing differ between Wisconsin and Minnesota on the Mississippi River Boundary water, such as the use of game fish as bait, seasons, bag limits, or the number of hooks, baits or lures a person may fish with, an angler needs to know what side of the state line they are on, and follow the rules of that state. Wisconsin does not have a rule on number of lines, but rather a rule that limits the maximum number of hooks, baits or lures a person may fish with, which is 3. If an angler attaches 3 different baits or lures to one line, then they can only fish with that one line on the Wisconsin side of the river.

Wisconsin law reads as follows:

NR 21.17 Conflicting rules. Where there are differences in elements of the boundary waters regulations of Minnesota and Wisconsin, anglers, commercial fishers and persons taking turtles shall comply with the regulations of the state in whose territorial waters they are fishing in or taking turtles.

When fishing on the Wisconsin side of the Mississippi River, a person may possess and use live rusty crayfish or native crayfish as fishing bait. All other non-native species of crayfish are considered a prohibited invasive species in Wisconsin. The season for taking crayfish from the Wisconsin side of the Mississippi river is May 1 to March 1. On all other waters in Wisconsin the season for harvesting crayfish is open year round. It is illegal to use live crayfish as fishing bait on all inland waters in Wisconsin except on the Mississippi river. Simultaneous possession of live crayfish and hook and line fishing equipment while on inland waters in Wisconsin, except the Mississippi river, is considered a violation of Wisconsin law. When on the Minnesota side of the boundary waters, an angler must follow the Minnesota rules regarding the harvest and use of crayfish as fishing bait.

I hope this information is helpful. If you have any further questions, feel free to reply back or give me a call.

Thomas Van Haren

Conservation Warden & NR Policy Officer

Bureau of Law Enforcement

Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources

(() phone: (608) 266-3244

Read more: http://catgeeks.proboards.com/thread/2183/cat-tip-clarification-border-water#ixzz2j4R8txsY

[bobbymalone]

to me all that email back and forth reads clear in the regs. if you want to follow WI law, you have to be in WI territory and have a WI license otherwise you have to follow MN law.

the only discrepancy is the WI license requirement, which may have came about to either complicate or ease the complication of the border water law. How much of that is 5 years old?

[DLD24]

How many guys can say this guy is an i diot, my god I think after the second or third post he realized he shouldn't have done it (should've realized at the time but people make bad choices)I'm guessing 90% of you people break the law everyday (speeding, etc)not defending his decision, but man its not necessary for everyone on this forum to be a d***...So pakman lesson 1 to HSO...NEVER post something like this or a picture of your BIG walleye or any other fish you kept even to get mounted...

[Driftless]

I wonder how many potential trout anglers have been turned off by this tar and feathering.

Hope you are all proud of yourselves.

[Alagnak]

Picture of a big dead fish or bragging about fishing out of season- nobody can give you **** if you don't brag about it on the internet. Strictly voluntary. Some people just can't help themselves.

[Slabasaurus]

How many guys can say this guy is an i diot, my god I think after the second or third post he realized he shouldn't have done it (should've realized at the time but people make bad choices)I'm guessing 90% of you people break the law everyday (speeding, etc)not defending his decision, but man its not necessary for everyone on this forum to be a d***...So pakman lesson 1 to HSO...NEVER post something like this or a picture of your BIG walleye or any other fish you kept even to get mounted...

What do you mean... 'you people?'

Lesson 1 for all outdoor sites, cept maybe tednugent dot org: "Don't poach."

Lesson 2 should be: "If you poach, probably keep that detail to yourself"

Lesson 3 I obtained from this very thread: Mn/WI border water regs make the MN and WI trout regs look as complicated as my niece's favorite book: Where's Spot.

[bobbymalone]

I wonder how many potential trout anglers have been turned off by this tar and feathering.

Zero.

If you stroll into town wearing a huge sign that says jake ace, you might end up getting run out of town, tarred and feathered. Boo-Hoo.