a special request to some certain riders

[Fisher Dave]

big fish guy ...

I can understand your problems with the select few idiots on the ATV's. I am a rider and personally do all I can to respect other people property .. I wish all riders would, there would be far more places to ride.

I hope you can refrain from putting in spike strips or barbwire .. or booby-traps of any type so to speak. I dont ride in your general area but I would hate to encounter a similar situation anywhere when I'm out riding with my fiance .. or more importantly on one of our rides where our young son is on an ATV with us. If my son where hurt due to a booby-trap set by a landowner I'm not quite sure what my reaction would be, but it wouldnt be good for anyone.

Is there any way a fence section can be set up to cut these idiots off? Something that can be seen and would detour people might be best.

[This message has been edited by Fisher Dave (edited 05-01-2003).]

[Benny]

Big fish guy, please don't put that suff out there.It is against the law and would open you up for a very nasty law suit.There is a case in Wisconson I believe where a land owner booby traped his cabin.He set a shot gun to go off hitting the culprit in the legs.The guy was caught sure enough, but the land owner paid the bigger penalty.
I agree with your frustration 100 %, and also think a fence would be one answer, I would gladly help put up this fence if given enough notice to drive up there and help.
Thanks, Benny

[Dave]

big_fish, that is generous of you to do. Thank you on behalf of the riders. Along the Red Top trail, what I saw last year, the orange snowfence has kept riders out of areas that are off limits. Maybe that would help.

[Fisher Dave]

I live about 45 minutes (?) away or so. I would be more than happy to come out myself and help put up a fence or something of that nature.

[big_fish_guy]

Just making a plea to the atv riders up off hwy 200 about 3 miles east of Remer. Please stay on the trail that we so generously cut through our property for you to cross to the old railroad line trail. This spring someone has been ripping through our low land marsh area and tearing up our property. If this is you or you know who has done it, please stop. I would hate to have to run barbwire and put spikes in the ground to pop your tires because you can't respect our private, property. And just to make the other atvers aware, there are a few bad apples out there that are going to ruin it for the rest of you.

[big_fish_guy]

I would never put in anything to hurt anyone. Barbwire is the cheapest fence that I could put up, and I would take those plastic bags from the grocery store and tie on the fence so it would be visible. That is the intent, to put up a physical barrier. I don't want to, but if it keeps up, I will be forced to. And I don't intend to put any "booby traps" out. I am just frustrated, you know? We will be up there a lot more now and hopefully we can catch the people. It is probably a few stupid teenagers "muddin".

[big_fish_guy]

that orange snow fence is a good idea... I wonder what that costs?

[traveler]

Hey guys, I hope it's possible to inject a comment here without coming off as too "anti" so here goes. The snow fence you guys are talking about would probably do the trick, but why the heck should he need to do that??? Fenceing is expensive, needs maitenence (even after the generous folks who offer to erect it are gone) and it's an eyesore, especially the bright orange stuff. I have fencing on my property for livestock, that's what it's for. To keep things IN, not out. Supposedly we have trespass laws for that. Again, the offer to help is admirable, but the basic idea that the landowner should have to invest his time, money, whatever, to allow ATVer's to "play" is just nuts. And the legal/ethical burden placed on innocent landowners trying to figure out how to react to issues like these forced upon them by others is worse.

[Big Dave2]

hey, big fish guy,
Just a thought but I was wondering if there is an ATV club in your area? if so you could contact the members of the club and I am sure that they would purchase and even install the fencing that you need because they should want to do anything to keep your trail open.
Dave

[Dave]

Big Dave2, that's an excellent idea! Glad you thought of that.

traveler, You're right, but big-fish is allowing riders to pass through his property. I don't think a person should have to fence off an area when there's an obvious trail but not every rider is playing with a full deck; just like any other recreation. If big-fish decides to close the trail, I wouldn't hold that against him. He's giving riders a chance and we're trying to figure out a way to help keep the riders on the trail. If it meant pitching in money wise, count me in.

[traveler]

Dave, yeah, I hear you. It's just a shame that he's out there trying to go thr extra mile and is getting no respect for his property. Pretty much the same thing that happens to some farmes who allow hunters on their land and thenn have to put up with litter, broken fences, open gates. When will some people learn not to muck up a good thing?

[Benny]

Big fish guy,I thank you for all the guys and gals I ride with for your efforts to give the ATV's an opening to travel through.
I also think it would help to contact the lacal groups up there, they may help in policing the pass on a bussy weekend.A few times of pointing out to the public that it is a private trail only open through the goodness of the land owner, may just help in the future.The more people aware that there is a problem starting the better chance there is to counter it.
I don't know what chapter of ATVAM is up there but I will contact them and ask.If there is a local chapter I can see if they would be willing to talk with you. if you wish.
My offer still stands, I travel to Pengilly at least a couple of times a year and go through MacGregor to get there.So a few hours to help put up the fence wouldn't be a big deal.
Benny

[fonz58]

A safe and inexpensive booby trap is a paintball land mine.

[big_fish_guy]

there will be no booby traps. We built a little bridge accross the creek, one that was only wide enough for a person to cross, then we put a wooden fence out along the sides to prevent atvs from ripping up in "the mud hole". The creek has come back and the mud hole is going away. They now have blazed a trail a little ways away in the next guys property. geez, what a bunch of punks. Oh well, they are not going through ours anymore.
It's sad too, cause we groomed the trail as something like a nature trail for my folks and for the kids to walk on. The kids like to pick the flowers and stuff along the way. We made it wide enough so that atvs could use it as long as they stayed on the trail. once they started going out and ripping around... oh well. probablem solved, for us. I don't know what the guy next to us thinks. I believe he just uses the land as a tree farm, and he actually lives in the cities. So he probably doesn't know.