Why is our duck limit 6 per day(in MN)?

[Mark Christianson]

Who would support a lowered limit?
As an example, I personally have no problem at all with going down to 4 ducks a day again.
To me it's odd that we have liberal limits, yet so much publicity is about habitat losses and people saying ducks just not seeming to be in the air.
Lowering limits arguments probably are very similar to the arguments around fish limits in recent history.
The facts in the fishing world were that a tiny percentage of people actually got limits, so it's not a large impact to the resource.
I agree. A small percentage of duck hunters shoot limits today.
But, I have to argue that a duck saved today, could be a momma duck tomorrow that could potentially raise a brood.
If the limit were reduced to 4 ducks a day, does anyone really feel that we would lose a large percentage of duck hunters due to it? I can't imagine that we would lose much of our fraternity if we dropped the limits. It's not as if people that duck hunt are requiring the harvest to put food on their tables. (Well, chances are there are a few I guess)

Duck hunting: So fun, so humbling, so frustrating, so looked forward to by me every year.

[walleyewacker]

I dont think it is as much as what minnesota should do as much as the south. They can shoot our local birds much longer than we get a chance to.

[TV BOY]

I think that keeping the limit @ 6 based on overall duck numbers is ok by me. Changing one state will not drastically affect the overall population. How many people actually get their limit? Not too many that I talk to.

When you are in the right spot 6 seems like it is too low. If you only want to shoot 5 or 4 one can always call it a day. So many people are obsessed with getting a limit - same goes when you talk to people about fishing.

Lost birds also need to be factored in to ones limit, too often I see hunters making no attempts at downed birds deep in the cats or ones that sail accross a lake. Too many think the limit only applies to what's in the boat! That's not right and that's not the law.
184 days to go...

[Mark Christianson]

True, that MN should not be the only ones to lower a limit. I agree nationwide is the only way it would truely give positive impacts, but the question remains:
How many people would have heartache if it were lowered?

[Fisher Dave]

It would bother me.

That would also account for 4 less birds allowed in the freezer at the end of the season.. or whenever our season ends due to ice-up .. etc. Not all of us can make it out hunting several days a week, and some of us do hunt for food(not assuming you dont). Another factor is some years we have a terrible flight here in Minnesota and if we as individuals dont have the time or money to travel to find the flyway... some of us still paid the same license fee's and expenses as other hunters for what can seem to be nothing... When seasons are going like that, the one day you can get out and bag a limit really is appreciated, and keep us spending our license dollars the next season.

$30 stamps + $17 small game(?) + $12 box of shells + $50+ per doz/decoys + $1.80 gallon/gas ... this is only the beginning of why I think I should be allowed to have 12 birds in my freezer at the end of the season... minimum average investment $150 - 12 birds - $13/bird(roughly) in the freezer.. thats expensive chicken.

When I do get that chance to hunt and the birds are moving.. 4 birds are often obtained toward my limit in 30 minutes or less... I guess I like having the choice to spend more time in the blind since I just woke up at 4:00 am to drive, get my spot, set up decoys, and so on.

[Sartell Angler]

I personally wouldn't care if they knocked the limit down a little bit, but the only way that is going to happen with the current system is if the seasons are shortened as well. Research indicates that few hunters out (especially after opening weekend) kill their limits....so, the way they see it the limit could be 8 or 10 and the population wouldn't be affected much. But since there are ususally a few ducks killed on each outing, if the season extended or shortened, the population would be far more affected. TV Boy brings up an excellent point...people should be out there looking for cripples like they are searching for a Boone and Crockett buck that they just shot...it is not only bad for the bird that was barely hit to be suffering on the other side of the swamp, but it is also bad for the sport in general. That is one part of waterfowling that anti hunters or those who are somewhere in the middle don't take kindly to. Everyone should try their hardest to find any bird they hit.

S.A.

[LABS4ME]

I also agree the whole country can be knocked down to 4 birds... even 3 birds. Don't kid yourself by doing the math on the cost of your birds. If anybody is hunting or fishing to justify the cost of their game, you'd have quit along time ago, I didn't see any "enterainment or liesure time" factored in. A round of golf is $50.00 - 100.00, drinking beer is $10.00 a 12-pack, a football or hockey game is $50 - 100.00, a nice dinner is $50.00 - ? and there is no return on any of those. We all choose to pursue our sports full well knowing what the costs are, game or not. We accept that and choose to do it anyways. Now I'm not some P.C., tree hugging, east coast hunter-wannabe by any stretch of the imagination. I just think that 6 birds in the current state of affairs is too much. Might even help getting a few birds to stick around the state a little longer. Less guys out all day pressuring birds trying to get that last 2 or 3 birds. You never hear pheasant hunters complain they only get 2 birds in MN and 3 birds elsewhere. It's a fact of life we are putting more pressure on our birds, they had lower limits back 30-40 years ago... I have trouble believing there are now less hunters, more potholes or more birds than there was then. Waterfowling was how I learned to hunt and is still a passion for me, but truth be told, I'd turn in that one 6 bird day, for more consistant shooting the other days out. If you want more bang for the buck, shoot geese! More pounds of meat, the state population goal is exceeded and a much longer season.

Plain and simple, until this state (and country) reverses it's policy on wetlands, I think this is just the beginning of a slow downhill slide to even stricter harvest limits and days in the field.

Good Luck! Ken

[hanson]

I have no problem with a 4 bird limit either. Rare is the day that we shoot 6 birds a piece. When that occasional day happens, makes for a lot of plucking too. Something has to happen with the length of season also. Not sure how to fix it but opening day comes and we get good shooting. Then we don't see birds for another month at all. Might as well not even go out and hunt. Finally, once things start to ice up in Canada and the snow moves in, we'll get a week of fabulous hunting for greenies, bills, goldeneyes and they move out just as quickly as they move in. Bad thing is this week of good hunting usually coincides with the deer opener. I hunt mostly NW Minnesota so this is what we see happening up there. Been like that for awhile now and these really warm falls we've been having haven't helped out much.

Duck Season means Ice Fishing is right around the corner. How many days again??

[IceHawk]

I'm all for a 4 bird limit and a longer season. Its not to often a person gets a limit anyhow. In fact our group prefers to stop short of a limit just to stay and watch the spectacle of birds decoying. To me Duck hunting is a tradition of going out with friends telling stories and shareing good laughs. Getting ducks is a bonus I get more of a thrill out of wathcing the birds decoy than shooting them. I am all for a longer season though, I hunt alot of rivers late season that hold birds all year. By extending the season later it would allow
me to enjoy the fruits of what the river has to offer a late season hunter.

[wallygators]

Here is the number one reason that they should not lower the duck limit. If our duck populations are so low then why did we have such a long season. I really don't care if they lower the duck limit but if they do then they need to start the season in october not sept like it was a couple years ago if they don't then what is the difference if the limit is 4 or 6 people are going to have more days to kill 3 birds a day. And number two thety should never outlaw the rotoduck because although they work they don't work *** goood as they did in the beginning

[TV BOY]

Does anyone else think that the apperance of fewer ducks has anything to do to the fact of milder Fall weather. Resulting with 1 or two big pushes of northern birds, always comming in the middle of the week (@ night)and during deer season?

[IceHawk]

I think the reason we are seeing less ducks during the season is the habitat we have in MN. I remeber hunting cornfields for mallards as a kid now I find it hard to find standing water in any fields. The habitat has been thinned over the years. Alot of farmers have tiled and drained their land looking to gain more farmland. Another thing to notice is look at the way the houses are going up people are building on or near all the sloughs they can get to, everyone wants a scenic view of the ponds out there back door. Look at the Dakotas the acreage is still there the houses are to a minumum and the habitat still remains as it did years ago. I will agree the Noirthern flight seems to always show up around Deer opener and sometimes later thats why I am for a later season this gives hardcore hunters like me a chance to chase them yet. Hopefully our wildlife department can figure out more ways to retain the exsisting habitat and create new areas for the birds or our waterfowling will only get worse. I will have to say that at times the waterfowling in our state can be excellent, opener and the second weekend are usally great. Then there comes that lull period between opener and
the Northern migration. Good hunting can be had during this time looking for pockets of birds is the key to success.

[Ruttin' Buck]

Shotgun $300
Duck boat $1000
Waders $60
Deeks $300
2 boxes of shells $20
1 spoiled lab $500

Getting up at 2AM to drink coffee in a sea of cattails while a sleet storm pummels you and your dog only to arrive home at noon, muddy boots in tow, without a bird, and plan to do it again the next morning......

PRICELESS

------------------
Just when you think you've come up with something one-who-thinks-I-am-silly proof, someone comes up with a better one-who-thinks-I-am-silly.

[oilguy]

4 birds 6 birds?? Is there any evidence that a reduction in harvest by MN hunters would result in more birds next year. Show me the numbers. We live in the second most drained state in the USA. Now there is a FACT that is undisputed. Ask some old-timers if the flights were heavier in the past. The ones I've talked with say the birds have always come through at about the same time. The only difference was they used to hang around for a week, not 1-2 days. There was more habitat and there were essentially 0 high powered boats fishing on the bigger "roost" lakes. Even out Bubba pals in the South know the ducks need safe place to rest.

[bmc]

A reduced limit wouldn't hurt my feelings at all. The one thing I would like to see is a nation wide limit. I don't understand why our limit is 6 birds a day and down in the southern states it's higher. I also think most guys hang it up after the first couple weeks of season, but that's fine with me!!! I would like to see the limit on pintails increased from one to two per day. Somedays last year, we had ridiculous numbers of pintails buzzing the dekes, more than we've ever seen here in Itasca County.

Brian
"Give 'em 3!"
"Git 'er done!"

[Long Gray Line]

I'd fully support a nationwide limit that GETS ENFORCED. I was talking to a business associate in so. Missouri that said he killed over a hundred birds last year. "Great year!" he said. I asked him how the hell he (and the rest of his group) get away with breaking the law like that. His limit is 6 & 12 just like MN. He said that the guide takes all the birds each day and gives them to local food banks (yeah, right) and therefore there's no possesion problem. Made me sick. That's the attitude with a lot of hunters down south and believe me, I'm not saying we don't need to do a WHOLE BUNCH to improve the habitat in our state, but something's gotta be done about these morons down in MO, AR, LA, etc.

[LABS4ME]

The fowling in Manitoba while still O.K., is not what it was in the 80's and early 90's. I have trial friends who live in Selkirk and have cabins on the Netley marsh and they don't get the "push" of birds like they used to. They feel most of the birds are nesting in the Dakotas or Saskatchewan. While the Dakota's are producing a high number of birds, we aren't seeing the "Northern Flight" because the numbers of birds reared in Canada aren't there! But because of politics by our illustrious leaders such as Trent Lott, we have liberal guidelines still in play. The Dakota's didn't kick out the birds last year as in years past and Saskatchewan is still dry and they aren't nesting in Northern Manitoba any more.... I used to hunt the Marsh for about 6 years and the migration happened every year like clock work, the week of halloween... they still hunt hard till freeze-up and some of the past few years had no big push or a trickle at best. Southern Manitoba still has good hunting, but you are hunting locally reared birds, same as going to No. Dakota. We keep hoping it's just birds hanging up in Manitoba... waiting to come hauling through at freeze-up, but truth be told they aren't there either.

I wouldn't have a problem with less birds and a shortened season as long as it was well thought aout and not Sept 29th to Oct 29th... or something like that.

As far as prove not shooting a bird helps the population next year?.... they all don't get killed. I shot a banded Mallard last year that was 9 years old... some of em' make it to breed again, but kill em' and that's the last it will breed. If we lower our kill by 10%, doesn't mean the south automatically increases theirs by 10%. Even if only half of the 10% make it back to breed, that would have an impact on the population. Our short term gains (6 bird days) can have a lasting impact on the population over 5 years.

This topic will probably remain opionated and controversial, it would be neat if the seasons and limits were set with JUST biological reasoning without the political B.S.

My long .04 cents! Right or Wrong!

Good Luck! Ken

[This message has been edited by LABS4ME (edited 03-23-2004).]

[Mark Christianson]

Great stuff guys.
Keep it coming. Majority here so far wants limits lowered.
Lets here some more from both sides.
Keep it the same or lower it?
What are the reasons?

[Guest]

TV BOY is right on the money.
We are NOT facing a lack of birds, it is the fact that for the last 2-3 seasons, a lot of them have either pushed through on the first sign of a storm, or they hang out in Canada until after the season here is over because they have plenty of food and water where they are and hence no reason to go south until absolutely necessary.
Call it global warming, climate change or whatever, but the fact is many birds more and more each year winter further and further North. You should hear some of the stupid accusations hunters to the South make about us...classic one is that we have areators in our lakes just to keep the birds up here longer...I find that one quite funny

[Ruttin' Buck]

I'll be the devils advocate Biglakeba$$. I'll start by saying that everyone has poured out some well thought out discussion for this thread.

I think Labs4me said it best when he stated that the politics of a limit/season change whether it be increasing or decreasing here or down south is a tough one to muster.

I guess I would challenge a DU representative to log on and fire up with their opinions. The nice part about DU is that they see the nation as a habitat and make changes that best suit waterfowl populations nation-wide. I would like to hear their opinons on whether or not a limit change would effect the populations.

My devils advocate remarks. I guess, I'm going to hunt ducks as long as the season is open. I agree with somebody elses comments on the fact that it's maybe not that common to limit out daily on ducks in MN. But, I do get generally get my freezer to the possession limits by the end of season and take care to mark each bag of ducks specifically so I can monitor my limit.

I love eating ducks in the winter. If I stay under my possession limit, I don't cook a duck until I can stumble in from a morning of ice fishing to throw down on a meal of ducks that have been festering all morning in a pot of wine sauce. But, the point I want to make is that if I hit a possession limit during the season, I'll fire up the pot early and eat them up so I can hunt the flights of northern birds. So all in all, although maybe I average 3 per day now, I may average 3 a day if the daily limit is lowered and eat up my possession to stay legal, but during the course of the season I'll have shot the same number of birds.

Let's be honest, who of us out there will just say, "Well, it's nice that I filled out on ducks by mid-October (because possession limits were lowered), guess I'll hang up the gun for the season". That won't happen. Guys will eat their ducks and give their ducks away just to hunt the northerns Generally speaking of course...I hate to start a stereotype war on maybe you hunt that way but 'I' don't...your typical hunter will do this IMHO.

If the season is shortened, I will just take that many more half days off to get my freezer to possession and make sure I have that sweet meat in my winter freezer stash.

So that being said, my best bet is on improving habit both in the sense of food and also in the sense of the reduction of predators. Remember, for every coyote, fox, coon, and skunk you kill, you just saved a bunch of ducks.

Oh, and if someone could go ahead and speak with mother nature to tell her how fall is supposed to play out, that would be nice too.

------------------
Just when you think you've come up with something one-who-thinks-I-am-silly proof, someone comes up with a better one-who-thinks-I-am-silly.

[TV BOY]

A quick look into Southern States daily and possession duck limits. Other than a few states having an early teal season, once the regular season is open here are their limits....

Missippi 6/12
Texas 6/12
Arkansas 5/10
Louisiana 6/12
Missouri 6/12
Flordia 4/8
Not exactly what I would call liberal limits as previous posts suggested

[walleyewacker]

How long are the seasons down there? I think harvest records speak for themselves. Arkansas with over a million birds, lousiana with over 2 million.

http://www.hobbydog.net/hunting/harvest_data/ms_flyway.htm

[simcox282]

They get better duck hunting down south for two reasons- Habitat and that is where the birds go to. If this discussion were to be based upon longivity vs. success it might be different.

[Mark Christianson]

Not sure I understand your post?????

[Roosterslayer05]

TV Boy- you are right about guys not looking for there cripples, some of my friends call me crazy cause I look for every duck I hit, even if it landed 150 yards away in some cattails, sometimes I will look for a cripple for 45 minutes. I think if I hit it I should look for it and sometimes you do find the bird. LIke 2 years ago I hit a mallard that sailed 150 yards back into a grass field, I had no dog but I walked back there and after about 20 minutes of looking it jumped up and tried to fly away about 15 yards from me and I got it. Or this year I dropped a mallerd 30 yards away in some super thick cattails. Me and a friend looked for 20 minutes and couldent find it, my friend gave up and I kept looking. The cattails were so thick we were makeing trails and eventually I found it, after about a half hour. The hunting in SW MN has gone down the last couple years real bad. My uncle and father hunted down there since they were kids and they said there used to be 100 thousand mallerds in the refuge back in the 70's around holloween weekend, even in the 80's the duck hunting was good with plenty of birds around then in the mid 90's my uncle said he started to see less ducks around every year, even the first year I hunted down there it was decent, we had a weekend where there was 20,000 mallerds in the refuge and we had a great day, sky filled with birds, it seemed like a video you watch of canada. Then every year the hunting seems to get worse, in the last 4 years the most ducks I have seen in the refuge was 10,000. The first 2 years I was there it seemed like every weekend late in the season there was bluebills flying down this river we hunt, the last 2 years I havent seen a flock of bluebills. I think the main migration of ducks has moved west like the snow geese because the wetlands in MN are so degraded.