Question for flooring experts.....or anyone with real world experience!

[311Hemi]

Building a new house. A after doing my research before putting down flooring, I realized the floor trusses are spaced 24"oc. The builder put down 23/32 OSB studr-i-floor. I have a few questions regard flooring installations:

1) 3/4" hardwood floor: from what I can find the NWFA (national wood fllor assoc.) recommends 1" OSB (3/4" plywood) for 24" OC trusses. The builder has not had a problem with HW floors installed over the subfloor system I mentioned above. I will be laying the floor perpendicular to the trusses. Does anyone have any experience with how the floors hold up? My main concern is squeeks!

2) Slate tiles. Everything I read says I should have two layers of sub flooring to install slate and must meet l/720 deflection. Well, I only have one layer of sub floor and I meet the l/720 deflection criteria length wise with the trusses, but I don't think 24" oc spacing between trusses meets that. I am having a hard time figuring that out. Again, the builder says they have not had issues with normal tile but has not had much slate installed. The owner of the tile store I bought the slate from said he did not think it would be an issue. Anyone have any real world experience with this?

[NoWiser]

I think you will be fine on both counts. I definitely don't see the wood flooring being an issue, and you can contact the truss company to get the deflection for the floors for the slate. I personally wouldn't be concerned about either, though. Floor trusses 24" o.c. is not uncommon at all, although I'd probably do mine 19.2" o.c. if the span was borderline.

[311Hemi]

Yea, had I known these specs before the structure was built I would have gone a max of 19.2. Now I am trying to play catch up! Truss company said verified above L/720 for the trusses, it's the deflection of the OSB between trusses that is the concern.

[NoWiser]

I have not used that type of subfloor before, but I'm guessing you are probably ok. If it's comparable to Advantech subfloor, which we use exclusively, I'd feel 100% comfortable with the slate and 24" o.c.

[CigarGuy]

If you have a problem with the product failing after installation and you don't follow the manufacturers installation instructions, your going to be S.O.L. Famous last words "we have never had any problems", "should be ok-we do it all the time". I had installers that wouldn't seal the seams in residential carpet (required by manufactures and The Carpet and Rug Institute). They might have got away with it 10 times, but the first time the carpet unraveled along the cut edges, they ate the job!

See if any of those folks (builder/tile shop, etc.) will give you a written warranty regarding the installation and/or product failure-good luck! I've been out of the industry for several years, but everything I remember, a tile installation is "double subfloor". Bottom line, the manufacturer will walk away from most installation-related issues if their installation instructions were not followed.

Also, the manufacturer's installation instructions supersede (NWFA and can't think of the name of the tile association) installation recommendations.

Also, also...look at the warranty info on products used in the installation, if they aren't recommended by the manufacturer, make sure they cover the total cost to replace a faulty/defective area-not just their product.

[cavalierowner]

Also, the manufacturer's installation instructions supersede (NWFA and can't think of the name of the tile association) installation recommendations.

Also, also...look at the warranty info on products used in the installation, if they aren't recommended by the manufacturer, make sure they cover the total cost to replace a faulty/defective area-not just their product.

The tile association you are trying to remember is the TCNA (Tile Council of North America).

To the O.P.: When I was still practicing, we lived and died by TCNA standards. I could be wrong, but I don't recall any of their installation methods suggesting a single layer subfloor. But then I've been retired for 2 years now. The best thing to do is ask the tile sub for a print-out of the TCNA installation method they are intending to use. That will say in both words and a picture what the TCNA requires. It is absolutely critical that tile be done correctly on a supported floor to avoid cracked grout joints, delamination and other nasty little problems. At the very least, get an installation method and a L & M guarantee from the tile manufacturer in writing (NOT the installer). Don't let them B$ you on the tile; too expensive.

[Nhamm]

I remember back when the NWFA recommended against using OSB as a substrate for putting down 3/4" solid hardwood. Now everything is changing as well as the spacing on those trusses.....too bad. Is the product prefinish or site-on finishing? Two things with the squeaking, bad installation, and/or bad maintenance can cause that. Most squeaking in floors is actually caused by the joists seperating from the subfloor. A good contractor will glue the subfloor down as well as nail/staple/screw whichever they prefer. Consider your floor a sponge, if it is humid in the air the wood will soak it in over time and swell up, and too dry will shrink up quite a bit, depending on species and cut. Now if you get too much of an extreme of either that wood will shrink/expand to a point when it comes back to normal it would have moved the staple that holds it down a tiny bit every time which overtime can cause it to squeak as well. Keeping a constant humidity of 25-45% depending on product will be the best way to get a squeak free floor. As long as the installer lays it perpindicular to the joists you should be fine, and to be honest I don't think they would do much different anyways, if it is within spec they are good to go. I will say every single 24"oc floor I have installed in my time doing floors, whether the floor was 5yrs old, or 30yrs old, every single subfloor had sag to it. It's alot of space in between each joist and over time they all sagged. Some would choose to throw another layer of subfloor on top, some wouldn't because the degree of sag was negligble to them.

[cavalierowner]

OK, I found a publication by the APA (American Plywood Association) TT-006A that summarizes the TCNA methods for wood floors, last updated 2008. A bit old, but it's what I remembered as of a couple years ago. It's a free .pdf download for registering here http://www.apawood.org/level_c.cfm?conte...=Yes&pF=Yes

Basically, given what you have, you need one of a number of different underlayments over your subfloor. But I would still suggest getting an installation method from the tile manufacturer.

[311Hemi]

Well, from the sounds of it the 12x12 slate I bought doesn't have manufacturer instructions...I purchased it from Tile Liquidator. I will have to check on the porcilin tiles I am getting from there. I am mainly concerned about the slate though. I do have the option to block from below the sub floor if that would help at all. The tile installer is my brother, and while he has been laying tile for years he doesn't have a TCNA method that he follows. He has done a ton of tile work though, I just want to make sure I cover the details that he may overlook.

I am installing 900 sq ft of 4" natural Hickory hardwood, which will be site finished. My father in law has installed a number of hw floors, and will be helping me here as well. I will be sealing with Bona Seal and Bona Mega will be the final two coats. The sub floor was glued and fastened (nail/screw,etc). I can see the sub floor flex a little when you step between floor trusses, and that was my main concern. The house will have a humidistat to control humidity levels.

[311Hemi]

I will say every single 24"oc floor I have installed in my time doing floors, whether the floor was 5yrs old, or 30yrs old, every single subfloor had sag to it. It's alot of space in between each joist and over time they all sagged. Some would choose to throw another layer of subfloor on top, some wouldn't because the degree of sag was negligble to them.

You mean you could see the sag on the surface of the finished floor?

[LightningBG]

I think blocking below the slate will help there, but doing it under the hardwood could be a whole lotta work.

[Nhamm]

If the subfloor already flexes when you step on it that is concerning, but as mentioned earlier if it is within spec not much the builder will probably do. Very good choice on the 4"hickory that is a good solid, dense floor which will give much stability in regard to the sag and with that wood choice in that size I wouldn't worry about it being noticable ever. Now for the tile that would be concerning but that is not my area. Bona is a great product and their whole line you can't lose with. The bonaseal is a waterbase product, and I personally think it is a shame with such a nice wood such as hickory to put a waterbase sealer down and not let the wood speak its true colors as it would an oil base sealer. Bona makes the oil base sealer as well which is compatible with the water. I see some puppies in your avatar pic has Bona Traffic been mentioned to you? It's what we use in all of our commercial jobs such as schools, libraries, churches, etc. I have it in my home as well as some friends and family where extra protection is worth the added cost, and with pets it is a must in my opinion. 2 coats Bona oil sealer to get the wonderful color, 2 coats Bona Traffic for protection. Mega is a good product too no doubt but it will not hold up as well over time compared to Traffic.

[311Hemi]

I have looked at Traffic as well, but it's double the price of Mega. I am actually thinking about doing the new Mega Clear HD, which is somewhere in-between with no dye what so ever.

The reason I don't want to use oil based products is because of the change of the color of the wood....at least based on me putting a mixwax oil based poly on it to just get a general feel for how it would look finished. While some may like how it adds some color, we really want to keep the wood it's natural color with no what I may call "yellowing" affect that the oil base seem to have on it. I don't want any amber tinting to occur. There was a significant color difference between the water and oil mixwax polys on the wood, which the wife preferred the more natural color of the water based.

Would the oil sealer "yellow" the appearance of the wood at all?

I am doing just under 850 sq ft, do you think 2 gallons of the sealer (1 coat) and 4 gallons of the finish coat (2 coats) will cover that?

[Nhamm]

Well if you are not trying to amber the floor then bonaseal is a good choice. I will state the case one more time for traffic though. Mega is somewhere I think $45-50 a gallon where traffic is 105 I believe? Haven't looked at an invoice from my distributors to a while but that is general ballpark. So what is it worth to you to extend the life of your floor another 5-7 years maybe $250. Would be for me and most others I talk to. Plus the traffic has UV inhibitors in it that will over time further prevent the ambering of your floor where as mega does not, and not too sure on the mega HD.

Yes those gallons will be enough. Everyone applies it differently buy yes that will cover it.

[311Hemi]

Thanks. I sent the price request to my supplier to find out what the cost of the traffic is.

[311Hemi]

Nhamm, I am going to go with the Traffic. Do you have any recommendation as far as what applicator to use when putting this on? t-bar....certain pads, roller, etc?

The plan as of now is to nail/cleat an L-shaped nail, not staple into the OSB sub floor. You see any issues with that?

[delcecchi]

Not to hijack the thread, but it seems to be slowing down so here goes. We are redoing our breezeway, an unheated space with a poured concrete floor. On the floor now is a layer of old tile covered with a layer of sheet vinyl. The tile is from around 1960, and the vinyl is from the late 70's.

The question is what kind of flooring will work in this space? I really don't want to take up the old flooring due to expense and asbestos.

Some of the vinyl that comes in plank like form looks pretty good. Would glueing that down work? (with a skim coat of leveler over the sheet vinyl to get rid of the texture it has).

We have been told the snap together stuff is not a good idea.