new Mn anti gun law proposal™™™™

[swamptiger]

Quote:

would you plz give me an example when 15 people were murdered in cold blood by a single individual with fists or a baseball bat in less than 20 minutes? these also would considered "hand to hand" items i would assume if your argument carried any merit which it does not, guns are not hand to hand combat and can spray bullets in seconds by one individual.

What about airplanes?...

[cavalierowner]

would you plz give me an example when 15 people were murdered in cold blood by a single individual with fists or a baseball bat in less than 20 minutes? these also would considered "hand to hand" items i would assume if your argument carried any merit which it does not, guns are not hand to hand combat and can spray bullets in seconds by one individual.

Fertilizer, along with a few other ingredients.

[amateurfishing]

name one American that has brought down an airplane if u can. no airplane with departure from u.s soil where u.s. laws are enforced at departure has had this happen that i am aware of.

i think fertiizer happened once, oklahoma city....though i guess i will admit kind of suprising others have not tried this possiby again

[swamptiger]

Quote:

name one American that has brought down an airplane

audie murphy

[amateurfishing]

ok, who is that? & will research myself

sorry, dont know the full story on that but did not come across anything regarding him personally taking down a commercia jet liner on his own

[swamptiger]

Audie Murphy was a WWII hero.

Maybe you could make a list of all the qualifiers (must be an american, must have happened on US soil, must have killed 15 people in 20 minutes or less, must be a commercial jetliner, etc., etc.,), and we could see if we could come up with anything from there...

[swamptiger]

Here's one that might fit your qualifications.

Julio González was charged with the murder of 87 people in the Happy Land fire in New York in 1990.

Don't know if it happened in under 20 minutes, but does it really make any difference?

[nonteepical]

20 minutes makes all the difference, when no one else is armed to stop the mental case, it takes 20 minutes for help to arrive, wich is no help because the killing is over.

[Ufatz]

Anybody around here ever fall back two paces, take a couple deep breathes and realize just how goofy some of these threads get to be?

Ha Ha Ha!

Thats okay, sometimes it provides a chuckle or at least a smile.

Carry on.

[amateurfishing]

Audie Murphy was a WWII hero.

Maybe you could make a list of all the qualifiers (must be an american, must have happened on US soil, must have killed 15 people in 20 minutes or less, must be a commercial jetliner, etc., etc.,), and we could see if we could come up with anything from there...

yes this is becoming absurd. i'm only commenting on what OTHERS have stated to be just as if not more dangerous than guns and i'm only asking for proof or reasons why

gun violence is happening on U.S. soil

only 9/11 (that im aware of) hijackings originated on U.S. soil where U.S. law would apply, never heard of private plane being an issue

maybe time does not matter, i was ony thinking of amount of time someone may recognize the bad situation, call 911, and emergency officals may get to incident and act. i know 20 is waay to long, sorry for dumb comment

there are lots of great posts here and i am starting to learn and understand the "gun mania" mentality and agree with posts regarding 2nd amendment, hunting and difft types of it, etc. but the thought of "gov't out to get us" and 10 round mags or more for hunting is just beyond me, if u cant shoot/kill said animal in 2 or 3 rounds u need to practice more or animal deserves to get away. for target shooting just reload a heck of a lot, its better to keep something (guns and right to them) as opposed to the "my way or highway" thoughts regarding the second amendment and keep public best interest in mind. most ppl may be clueless (like me) but that does not mean we dont have something to say when our kids r waiting at the corner for the school bus and someone can drive by with a simple 10-20 round mag and wipe out the whole corner when if there was a limit to 5 or such the carnage may be much less.

[Scott K]

I guess it doesnt pay to look up any info, but more people die in a year from fists, then assault weapons.

Your guidelines you added, may have a different outcome.

Again, where does the 2nd say anything about hunting? Why do people keep saying you dont need a big clip for hunting. It isnt about hunting!

Think about this, lets just say for the sake of argument, they passed a new law to ban all assault weapons, all clips above 5 rounds. Are the people that are dangerous, and are more likely to commit a murder, or be in a shooting, actually going to hand in their illegal weapons? No, they wont be, it will be just the law abiding citizens. The only people that this will effect will be the people that wont commit these crimes anyhow. So more laws, and more limits on guns, wont help reduce these shootings. Even the president, and vice president came straight out and said that.

[picksbigwagon]

The problem as I see it after arguing with my progressive, liberal arts educated sister in law is this: no guns means no mass murders. She doesn't want to limit magazine capacity, nor does she want to eliminate certain firearms, she wants them all eliminated, no privatized ownership of firearms. She said "assault weapons" is only the start....

Our discussion started out fine until I told her I have an AR 15, have had it for over 6 years, and it is only as safe as the person pulling the trigger. Same as her step daughter driving a car. That is when she went on the offensive about how could her sister allow such weapons in the house, blah blah blah....

This is only the beginning, the first steps, once that door is open, it will go downhill very quickly. We aren't just talking about huntin guns here, this applies to all firearms, from recreational shooting to home protection. My 870 shotgun is considered by many to be an assault weapon because it has a thumbhole stock?

[Huskie]

I didn't realize your sister in law had that much power!!!

[amateurfishing]

I agree the 2nd amendment is the trump card for all gun owners, after that you can put a little blame everywhere from mental/medical health to stronger laws, better conviction rates, better security, background checks and whatever else comes to someones mind. All gun owners do have their 2nd ammendment right and it is up to lawmakers to disprove if it is "bad" for society so to speak.

Are their any gun owners out there with thoughts regarding some of these very public incidents like columbine, sandy hook, etc. on why they happened or what could have helped prevent or mitigate the situations other than mental health since they were minors with stolen (i think) guns?

[picksbigwagon]

Huskie, she is a stay at home Mom, who loves to be politically active since she has nothing else to do. Name the issue and she has been at the capitol, on the picket lines, or in peoples faces about stuff for years......she has a pretty big network of like minded "friends" as well. She is the typical, non gun owner or user who believes everything the CNBC anchor says, and unfortunately, she is not alone here in MN

[Scott K]

20 minutes makes all the difference, when no one else is armed to stop the mental case, it takes 20 minutes for help to arrive, wich is no help because the killing is over.

Then maybe someone else should have been armed? Like someone in the school?

[picksbigwagon]

Are their any gun owners out there with thoughts regarding some of these very public incidents like columbine, sandy hook, etc. on why they happened or what could have helped prevent or mitigate the situations other than mental health since they were minors with stolen (i think) guns?

Okay, the columbine duo's parents had no idea what their 16 and 17 year old kids were doing or amassing in their rooms...Chalk that up to good ol' Triple P ( Urine Poor Parenting)

25 years ago, the Sandy Hook kid would not have been in a mainstream school setting, he would have been in a mental health care system/halfway house of some kind, but now they are mainstreamed with 504 plans and IEP plans at school that basically guarantee basically anything under the sun.

If my fifth grader gets in a fight, he is suspended, if Johnny snotbucket has it in his IEP that he only serves inschool suspension for the remainder of the day if he gets in a fight, what are we teaching Johnny? Act out your aggression, you just get to go and sit with a school social worker for the rest of the day, listen to soothing music and have someone tell you its okay, just don't leave the school grounds cause you found out the cops are called then. Don't believe me, I have seen these adaptations in former students IEP's, I teach in an Elementary school

[amateurfishing]

The problem as I see it after arguing with my progressive, liberal arts educated sister in law is this: no guns means no mass murders. She doesn't want to limit magazine capacity, nor does she want to eliminate certain firearms, she wants them all eliminated, no privatized ownership of firearms. She said "assault weapons" is only the start....

Our discussion started out fine until I told her I have an AR 15, have had it for over 6 years, and it is only as safe as the person pulling the trigger. Same as her step daughter driving a car. That is when she went on the offensive about how could her sister allow such weapons in the house, blah blah blah....

This is only the beginning, the first steps, once that door is open, it will go downhill very quickly. We aren't just talking about huntin guns here, this applies to all firearms, from recreational shooting to home protection. My 870 shotgun is considered by many to be an assault weapon because it has a thumbhole stock?

I (hopefully) disagree that this is the beginning and i am 100% for personal protection. BTW, when Biden claimed he told his wife to grab the shotgun, go to the balcony and fire twice......thats the dumbest answer i have ever heard, if u grab it, u better know how to use it!

[amateurfishing]

picksbigwagon,

with all due respect to your answers (and very valid ones),your reasons are as scattered as those that want gun control with only 1 thing in common...GUNS....the very reason it is such a contencious topic on both sides because there is no single major reason on either side to get their way

....& i do personally know about IEP kids and their struggles & how society has made everything to be done in compiance with politically correctness.

[swamptiger]

Quote:

Originally Posted By: nonteepical

20 minutes makes all the difference, when no one else is armed to stop the mental case, it takes 20 minutes for help to arrive, wich is no help because the killing is over.

Then maybe someone else should have been armed? Like someone in the school?

That would be the logical way to enact a faster response, but it might shatter some illusions about our perfectly safe, utopian world....

[picksbigwagon]

picksbigwagon,

with all due respect to your answers (and very valid ones),your reasons are as scattered as those that want gun control with only 1 thing in common...GUNS....the very reason it is such a contencious topic on both sides because there is no single major reason on either side to get their way

....& i do personally know about IEP kids and their struggles & how society has made everything to be done in compiance with politically correctness.

Okay, so tell me then? You asked, I answered and you discounted them as scattered. Obviously you have the answer

[amateurfishing]

i did not discount them, i stated they were as wide and as varied as the reasons for gun control

i have no answers, only thoughts and ideas and for each one i have any given gun owner could shoot holes in it (pun intended) any way they want, & probably rightfully so.

[surewood]

I have to question why "assault weapons"? I question why wouldn't they try to take our "average guns"? Why wouldn't you be worried about them trying to take your hunting guns after the assault weapons ban? I don't have the statistics, but have saw them many times. Homicides by assault weapons is a very small percentage. Homicides by firearms, by a significant amount are with hand guns. So why not hand guns on the chopping block? All a bunch of propaganda and talk. Always a bunch of dump with hidden agendas. I couldn't be more against these gun bans.

[harvey lee]

This is what i am disappointed about. Harvey Lee, and ole. I can just about guarantee, That neither of you know someone who own an actual ASSAULT weapon. It is a full automatic weapon and while you can get a permit it is extremely hard to aquire one. I may be wrong about you knowing someone, but i know a lot of shooters and know of only three people that have a permit and two are collector's with a museum size collection for education.

Correct, you are wrong.

[Whoaru99]

. So why not hand guns on the chopping block?

Because they're not as easily vilified nor as polarizing as an "assault rifle".