Empire direct vent 15,000 under sized?

[JSK76]

My house is 6x12 with a 2' front V, 6.5' side wall. The first few years I heated it with a 10,000 btu non vented heater and everything was good. Three years ago I put a 18,000 btu vented heater to cut down on moisture and every thing was good. This year I wanted a adjustable thermostat so I bought a used Empire 15,000 vented heater and also insulated the floor for the first time. 1" 1/2 foam in the walls and ceiling 1" in the floor good dual pane windows and out side of the house wrapped in plastic.

It seems like the heater is under sized. for an example I went fishing on Sunday and had been out the day before and left the heater set at 33, the out side temp around 25 not much wind. It took about 2 hours to get to 68 and I bet it took 45 to an hour to climb over 68 and I think after 4 hours it was 69 I wasn't cold but I'm concerned what's going to happen when it's -20 out and windy. When I look at the flame it's only about 3/8" and was told this is normal by Empire and another form member.

The Empire is 15,000 input and I think around 12,000 btu output and I had a 10,000 non vented that heated the house decent in the past and the only thing about the house that changed is I insulated the floor. So what the heck is going on? I'm thinking of running my cook stove burner to help get he temp up. Someone today was telling me to get a adjustable propane regulator, that it really work in there camper. Oh and I did buy a new standard regulator and the flame was the same with both the new and old. Also have plenty of propane.

Also I should add the house was banked with snow and I have the catch cover sleeve in all the holes.

[Cast A Way]

I have an 8 x 19 with 7'6" high ceilings and insulated floor. Pink foam 1 1/2" in the walls and 3 1/2 inch in the ceiling. My Empire DV215(15,000 BTU) heats the place very nicely. Last year on LOTW at -25F, it only took about 20 minutes to have the house at 70+. I have fans to blow the heat around and spend many days on the ice with no problems. Most of the time, I am in shorts, slippers and a tee shirt when fishing.

[cam7069]

Should be plenty for your house. I had a 10x16 it was plenty.

[two cups]

I have the same size house, but it also has double doors in the back for the ATV. I have the same furnace as you also, It worked good the last 3 years. So if I were you I would get on the Empire web site or give them a call and see what they say. Sorry I don't have an answer for you, good luck. Rick

[vman11]

I have a 6.5x12 Ice Castle with a 10,000 BTU Empire. I haven't had any issues in cold weather and strong winds.

I too was suspect of the flame size. The key is to keep the air moving in your house - without ceiling fans you will be wasting quite a bit of heat. I also mounted a computer fan inside the furnace enclosure, to circulate air off of the manifold.

You can buy blower kits for the unit ($150 or more) but elected to go with a $5 computer fan instead. Seems to be pretty effective.

[Cast A Way]

Sorry - I didn't notice you were in Bemidji. Not sure where you purchased you Empire, but the Cenex bulk station is an authorized dealer and repair shop. I would let Steve and the boys there take a look at it. They are very good. That heater should be more than you need for a house that size even without fans.

[JSK76]

So would you guys that have the same heater would you say your flam height is around 3/8 of an inch?

[Scupper]

Used Furnace? 2 things come to mind. Orifice - Thermostat location.

Is the used furnace orifice clean and properly sized. Spiders have been known to take up residency in the manifold/orifice chamber causing a flow restriction.

An LP orifice is smaller then a natural gas (NG) orifice. Under sized causes less Btu's. You want it to specifications. A larger then specified orifice will over fire the burn chamber eventually causing damage to it.

Experiment with your thermostat location. Move it lower in your structure.

I use a 15000 Empire to heat my 27' x 22' garage. My personal comfort level is right about 50 degrees. I looked at the flame height and I would say 3/8ths of an inch is pretty close.

[Hawg]

I'm not sure if Empire is the same as mine but I think it is. If you are only using the dial with no remote thermostat be sure to take the thermostat bulb out of the cabinet and just fasten it to the wall behind the unit. It made a lot of difference on my unit. The bulb always heated up and shut the unit down. A remote thermostate does the same thing though.

[cold one sd]

I have an Empire 15,000 direct vent in my 6 1/2'x12' wheel house and it is plenty big for it. I never set the thermostat higher than 4. It also doesn't have an insulated floor. Hole sleeves help a bunch though.

[coffee]

I have a 6-1/2 x 12 w/ 3' V-front with the 15,000 Empire in it. 1-1/2" foam in walls & insulated floor. Has always heated very well. One other thing to think about with a used one - is it blocked out for the proper wall thickness (per installation instructions) - critical!

[Cast A Way]

I installed the Empire DV 215 15,000BTU heater in my house. One of the most critical things was the distance for the vent pipes. My house walls with insulation are a shade over 2" thick with the aluminum siding. I wanted the outside vent cover flush on the outside, so I had to shim the heater on the inside 2 1/2" The minimun distance from the back of the heater to the outside vent has to be 4 1/2 inches according to the Empire installation manual. You can go to the Empire site to print or download them. Also, you need to put furnace cement or high temp silicone on the vent pipes when installing to prevent too much air from affecting your flame. I also cover the vent in the summer so bugs can't crawl in. My thermostat is 52" from the floor not quite in the center of the house.

[JSK76]

I do have the right length on the exhaust pipe, I had to order a $60.00 vinyl siding kit from empire to get it right. I did the install completely to the instructions. I would say the thermostat is 6' from the heater and its at head level when I sit and fish.

I wonder how much having a digital thermostat is playing with this whole scenario? Before I would just turn my heater on high and when it was too warm turn it down. Now I'm looking at the temp reading all the time, like I said I'm not really cold while fishing so is it more about the reading or the temp? I have to wonder the houses that are heating up to 70 in mater of a few hours, how close is the thermostat to the heater? Like I said mines 6' if it was 2' I'm sure it would read warmer also mine is lower on the wall then most people would mount it. If my flame height is normal then I don't know how I could have a problem, I need to spend some more time in the house with colder temps and longer period of time and see how it does.

[Scupper]

Quote:

It seems like the heater is under sized. for an example I went fishing on Sunday and had been out the day before and left the heater set at 33, the out side temp around 25 not much wind. It took about 2 hours to get to 68 and I bet it took 45 to an hour to climb over 68 and I think after 4 hours it was 69 I wasn't cold but I'm concerned what's going to happen when it's -20 out and windy. When I look at the flame it's only about 3/8" and was told this is normal by Empire and another form member.

Digital thermostat? I was wondering how you set your heater to 33 degrees.

After thinking about your inquiry and re reading, I don't think you have a problem with your heater if it went from 33 degrees to 68 degrees in 2 hours. When you say your not really cold, I'm sensing your not really warm either. Stop looking at the thermostat and put your shirt back on.

[JSK76]

I've got two weeks off to fish starting Sunday. I could do a experiment, I have a buddy base camp and a standard buddy heater, the two combined are within 500 btu of the actual btu output of the empire. I could use them one day and compare them to the Empire then I will know as long as I get two days the same temp outside and no wind.

[ChuckN]

JSK, I have an Empire 18k btu and when I used it for the first time last night I experienced similar issues. Was not getting proper heat and low flame. I took the removable plate off the combustion chamber and removed the gas line to the orfice/gas jet and a bug was in the jet. Compressed air blew it out and heater works perfect. Inspect for something blocking gas flow. It was a very simple job.

Your heater should heat the shack without issue.

[JSK76]

Problem solved! I took ChuckN's advise and the heat combustion chamber was full of loose rust. Cleaned every thing up while I had it apart and now I would say the flame is around 1" 3/4 to 2" tall. Heat's the house like it should now. Funny that when I told Empire my flame height was only around 3/8 of and inch I was told that was normal.

[MNice]

I you have a pilot light, I would leave it run all year. It keeps the exchanger nice & dry and no rust will ever form. It may cost a buck or two but it sure beats a rusty exchanger.