Clam XL 4000T Hub house

[BeenACrappieDay]

these are all really great points, especially the last half dozen or so. the excitement of the new house and loving it puts a guy at a pretty high point, have that guy find out in a forum that he got hosed out of ceiling storage and drops him down, contacts clam and the send organizers and zipper pulls puts him back up top, and then finds out it's not only missing storage, it's smaller in every way and Clam had the chance to warn him about that earlier. that roller coaster will make people have a variety of reactions as shown in this thread. Point is, none of us are wrong for the way we feel about this, but all we can do is submit the warranty info and get a new house shipped to us. Hopefully Clam makes sure this never repeats itself.

[DTro]

I really have no idea how many of these 2000/4000 houses were sold and I’m pretty sure none of us can be certain that they were even aware of the problem until it was brought up right here on HSO. I would have to think the mesh missing was a big clue and when that was first reported I would think they started investigating. For I all know the investigation by the people here might have been just as efficient as their own. A big company that has many things going on can take a bit to conclude an investigation and put in a plan of resolution. In other words, internal communication might not be so swift (I’m sure most of us work at companies like that. ). But I’m just speculating.

It sounds like in the few isolated cases here, they are allowing you to keep the old house and sending a new one, not to mention the hangers they already sent out to replace the mesh.

If that’s the case, then by all means YES, I TOO WISH I HAD GOT THE WRONG HOUSE.

[fishwater]

I'd much rather have the current specification problem and get a free house than those I had with CLAM's 2011 quality control abortion. We can all suffer it out with a house that's a little small; walls that pop apart and hours spent sewing corner after corner in a hotel room just so you don't waste a weekend or $300 in gas. I still to this day can't go on a fishing trip with intentions of fishing out of a HUB house unless I have a spare house available.

In all honesty, it sounds like they don't fall apart so much anymore? Anyone have any seam issues at all? Corners opening up? Panels pulling apart? Poles pushing through? Way to go CLAM, sound like your quality index is rising!

[Riffle]

Fisherman from NH here, and I just wanted to jump in and add my story to the list of Clam customers that got stuck with the "Little Foot XL4000T" franken shelter.

Had it not been for walleyeman22 posting on another forum I probably wouldn't have known about this issue.

I too noticed my shack didn't have cargo nets and emailed Clam a week or so ago, they said that they had gotten a few reports of others without nets and that they were going to send replacements to me. Then I thought how am I going to install these things if they are sewn in?

Next thing I know I get two small organizers (I already had one for my Scout TC) in the mail and the key ring cords for the zippers. I figured it was a decent tradeoff ($50 value).

As soon as I found out about this size issue yesterday I measured my shack and sure enough it was a sized like the 2000. I emailed Clam and got a call back tonight and they are going to send out a new one to me on Monday. I did send my receipt and a few photos in the email. There were really no questions asked and the call lasted a few minutes. No mention that this was widespread, etc., just that I would get a new shack and I could just keep the old one.

I don't know how long they knew about this issue, but I suspect it is only within the last several days that they realized that they had a major problem. Otherwise, why would they give out two free organizers to customers without cargo nets, knowing that these same customers would be calling back once word got out that they really had purchased "Little Foot 4000T" shelters and that they would have to give them a new shelter anyways?

And thanks again walleyeman22, now my little ones get their very own hub shelter in the back yard, while I get to use the product I wanted and paid for in the first place out on the ice!

Pretty crazy all the way around really.

[IceIceBaby]

I agree, Deerminator. How hard would it be for Clam to post a message on this and other outdoors forums or post notices at the big box or small box sporting good stores where they sell Clam houses, to not only admit their mistake, but to inform those who may not know they've been screwed, so that they can get what they paid for? That would have been the right thing to do, and they didn't do it, nor do they show any signs of doing it now. Pitiful customer service and poor customer relations at least in this instance.

Deerminator said "If they do realize there is an issue, the simple and prudent course of action is to admit they made a mistake, utilize every communications channel possible to reach those who might have bought the wrong shelter, and offer them a replacement if they choose to take advantage of it. I as a consumer would not hold that against them. People and companies make mistakes. You own up to it, make good on it, learn from it and try not to repeat it. That is how you build loyal customers, even when you've goofed."

[buzbunni]

"Little Foot XL4000T" franken shelter.

Funny.

Glad that you received a replacement shelter.

[Scott M]

Seems to me that customer service has been pretty top notch with this issue, an unforeseen product quality/packaging blunder from somewhere along the distribution line.

But here's the thing - unless you register your product, how is Clam to know who bought the shelters this year and had the problem? There's no way to know otherwise. If Clam finds this is an epidemic (problem identification is step one), they will likely have to query their product registrations, send out a recall and replacement, etc. That will take time. And with ice fishing season going full bore through the end of March at the earliest, it could take a while because this is their busiest time of year for customer service.

If you bought one of the shelters, contact Clam at [email protected]

[deerminator]

+1. Customer service has been second to none. I think this is a great thread because it helped identify the issue and informs everyone, including Clam. I have no interest in bashing Clam. I think my last post was in support of them and suggested what they should do once they've identified the issue. Again, it often takes time for this to happen. It's easy to cast stones. But unless you've never made a mistake, it's hard for me to think about getting so worked up about it. Especially if they make it right.

[JohnMickish]

Da_Chise31 makes a great point, not just for Clam but all of the stuff we buy. Without filling out the registration cards how can they get ahold of you? I am just as bad as anyone else about not filling those out or doing it online for fear of more spam or junkmail, but I know I have hosed myself by not doing it.

[Walleyeman22]

I respectfully disagree to a certain extent......they could very easily post a message on their HSOforum, or have reps/internet marketing guys post on these various forums. Granted they obviously wouldn't catch everyone, but at least the attempt to reach someone could be made.

Yes, they have been very good about taking care of this issue once contacted, but I don't see how they had any other choice-they sold a product that didn't match it's description. If they didn't take care of folks they would have someone who probably would make it a legal matter. I'm getting the feeling they are willing to roll with their losses on the few folks who do get wind of this instead of being proactive. Nobody knows how many of these defects went out.....could be very few/could be many.

[Scott M]

walleyeman, fishing forums have been around for over a decade. How many recall notices (don't count mentions of product defects as those get brought up for companies and products large and small) have you seen posted on chatrooms or messageboards? I haven't seen a single one. Instead, you just described a situation where a few real customers are notified of the situation via a fishing forum (in all honesty, a small percentage of the ice angling market views these pages) at the cost of informing those that want to manipulate the situation. "Hello Clam? Yeah, I bought one of those hub houses that was too small, can you send me one too? Yeah, here's my address...." Businesses like Clam have no way of keeping in contact with people without a product registration.

If I buy a $25 ice fishing combo off the shelf, chances are that there won't be a product registration, or if there is, I will probably throw it away. Foolish, probably, but I'm just being honest. However, if I drop $300 on a fish house, you can bet I'll be filling out the registration/warranty card. If you demand in one hand that a company rectifies the situation, you have to hold yourself to the same standard ion the other hand by registering your product.

[aanderud]

I'm not going to argue with your premise, Scott -- registration cards would be one way a company could be proactive about notifying customers about product defects, recalls, etc. That being said, do you honestly think Clam is going to contact everyone who sent in a registration card and inform them of how to measure their house or otherwise identify whether they got the correct house or not? I'd bet money that they will not.

And if so few anglers read any of these fishing websites that there's no point in a a company attempting to reach out to them in a post-sales-customer-service role, then why do so on a pre-sales-hype-the-product role? Just sayin.

[Scott M]

Brian,

I have no idea what Clam is going to do, however if you or I were running a business, registration cards would be the only way we keep in contact with those that purchase our product. It's not purchasing an automobile and then getting a VIN#.

You and I both know the niche that internet forums have in the market as far as sales, my point is posting a product deficiency and offering replacements hither and yonder is not the best way to reach the customers and that doing so falls far short of anything close to a total recall. Besides without a receipt in leiu of registration, there's really no way to prove you bought the product anyway, so what do they gain?

[DTro]

I'm sure I won't make any friends by saying this but if in fact this is now an accepted known fact that Clam is sitting on, I really think they could (in good faith) make a brief statement on their Facebook page, on their HSOforum, or here on HSO or other forums.

This is just my personal opinion but if company XYZ is out promoting every positive aspect of their business in every form of social media, then there is some room for discussing an issue like this as well. A simple statement such as, "hey we at widget mfg have discovered an error in model 999, for those of you that have purchased it, please contact our customer service for further information".

I'm sure there are some business/financial ramifications in doing that and if I owned stock in widget mfg, I might feel differently, but my two cents is that if a business is going to take full advantage of social media for promotional purposes, then it should also use those avenues for these types of things too.

[Scott M]

Well put dtro, I can agree to that. Perhaps that's what aanderud and walleyeman were driving at.

[aanderud]

Besides without a receipt in leiu of registration, there's really no way to prove you bought the product anyway, so what do they gain?

Most people do save receipts for such types of purchases, and even if you didn't, there are plenty of ways to prove you own the product -- cut out the 4 corners and mail them to us in this prepaid shipping box we sent you. That's one way. I'm sure there are others but that's not my point.

My point is that for a company to be claimed as going "above and beyond" in the customer service department, they would have to actually take steps above and beyond the normal steps.

I'm not saying I'd run the company any differently. I would have to look at the numbers. But I do know that the service they're offering now is certainly by no definition I know of "above" what is expected. Replacement of incorrectly manufactured product for the small fraction of customers who call them is the BARE MINIMUM customer service I would expect to see in this type of situation.

As dtro said -- this being the 21st century, there are other ways to communicate with customers (social media) that didn't exist in the past. To use these mechanisms for promotional purposes, but then act like they're unimportant when you have a fairly large customer service issue, is not necessarily going above and beyond the norm in service.

[djt311]

Well as I expected my Bigfoot XL4000 T is smaller version than advertised one. I have emailed clam customer service and will see how it gets resolved. From the sound of things on the forum they seem to be taking care ofthe problem. They were very helpful resolving the mesh storage thing and zipper pull problems I had.

For anyone that received their new shack, did it end up having the mesh storage on the ceiling. Seems like that might have been the tip off point that the shacks were the wrong size and defective.

[BeenACrappieDay]

Wow, this is a fun topic to track. obviously I'm in the middle of this as well from my past posts and waiting for a response to my warranty claim, but I really enjoy everyone's respectful perspective on this. you're all really good guys, I'd fish with any of you anytime.

Oh wait, I am married. never mind, you guys just let me know how they bite.....

[Riffle]

I will let you know when I get mine, but I would assume it will be the full featured version.

I had a chance to go back and look at some of the emails I had with Clam on this issue because I wanted to check the timeline.

2/1/2012 Email sent about missing cargo nets and zippers

2/5/2012 Clam responds and wants a copy of my receipt. They mentioned the following in the email: "I have had a few XL4000T's that were missing the cargo nets."

2/6/2012 Clam responds again: "I will have the two organizers and zipper pulls sent out to you right away."

2/21/2012 I email Clam about the "Little Foot XL 4000T Franken Shelter" sizing defect.

2/22/2012 Clam responds and ask to discuss over the phone I give them my number and got a call several hours later, am told I will be getting a new shelter and can keep the old one.

I did see that walleyeman's post in this thread from the 14th that includes his friends email response from Clam that day about the size defect would be cosistent with the timeline I have, in which they were likely unaware that they had a problem.

Now if they had people calling them about this issue and were shipping out new tents back in January, then that would be a problem, but from what I can see they learned about this issue within the last couple weeks, after sending out replacement zippers and organizers to 4000T owners.

I would be curious to know when they got the first email/call out on the size issue. Clam's comment to me on the 5th that they had a few call about the missing cargo nets tells me they had yet to know about the size issue at that point.

Maybe walleyeman's friend was the first to call about the size issue.

[Steve@CLAM]

Thought I’d jump in here. I work at CLAM and oversee the customer service and product development side of the business.

First, to the issue at hand, we can confirm the obvious. There are a small number of 4000T shelters out there that were produced to the wrong size specs. There are also some 4000T shelters out there that were produced without ceiling nets. All of the undersized 4000T’s do NOT have ceiling nets, but we know there are also some correct-sized 4000T’s without ceiling nets. IF you have ceiling nets, your 4000T IS the correct size. If you DO NOT have nets you MIGHT have an undersized shelter. Measure the floor dimensions. You should be at or close to 8 x 8 ft. on the floor. If you are not at 8 x 8 we will take care of you. We will allow you to KEEP your undersized shelter and will ship you a correct sized shelter at no charge. You WILL need to provide proof of purchase and proof that the shelter is undersized (pictures with tape measure). To contact our customer service, either email us at [email protected] or call us at 763-231-4120.

Here’s a stab at answering some of the other questions on this forum:

What happened?

Simply put, the 4000T sales are off the charts. Our customers saw this as a great shelter at a great price, and sales were more than 4 times our initial aggressive forecast. We chased sales and added “backup” factories to meet the demand, and somehow a batch that was the wrong size got out to you. It was certainly not our intent, and we believe we are compensating in a meaningful way those who received an undersized shelter.

What went wrong?

Ironically, we discovered that one of our “backup” factories was also making shelters for a competitor. When that competitor gives dimensions to the factory (and to you the consumer), the dimensions they quote are hub-to-hub, not actual fishing space. As a result this “backup” factory made a batch using the smaller hub-to-hub dimensions of our competitor as a guide, but we did not discover the issue until it was brought to our attention through our consumers. As an aside, when you’re reading dimensions and comparing shelters, make sure you’re comparing apples to apples and not floor space (which we quote) to hub-to-hub measurements (which our competitor does).

Why not address this proactively?

We are addressing this here, and we will also be addressing it through our HSOforum, an email blast, and our social media. While this issue is a very small percentage of the total units sold for this model, you are right that we should be proactive in getting it resolved.

Why doesn’t CLAM interact more in the forums?

The forums are a difficult environment at best for any company, which is why most avoid it. The company is fully transparent and accountable, while a minority of individuals in forums uses their anonymity and lack of accountability to distort facts and inflame what could be a healthy dialogue. We do monitor all of the forums regularly. I am a regular forum user, and the vast majority of forum users has integrity and is simply using the forum to share experiences and knowledge and learn more about their passions. In monitoring forums related to our products, though, we know for a fact that interactions between individuals and CLAM customer service are sometimes intentionally distorted or manipulated to the detriment of CLAM. In some cases the statements made are just plain untrue. Like most companies, we feel the best way to deal with this is to stay out of the fight, as it’s difficult to have a healthy dialogue with an individual who chooses to distort facts and manipulate the truth and then hide behind his anonymity.

Why does CLAM have “so many” quality problems?

As a percentage of sales, we don’t. Take a look on most lakes during ice season and you’ll see a sea of blue. We’ve sold far more ice fishing shelters than any competitor. We’re the first, the original, and the best. Our defective rate is as good or better than any of our competitors, but the fact is, even a small defective rate when dealing with huge volumes can result in unhappy customers. Our approach to quality is to build the best products, inspect during and after production, and deliver great customer service when we have an issue. We aren’t perfect, but our feedback overall tells us that we are doing well in all three of these phases. Having said that, it is our goal to continually improve, doing all we can to exceed expectations.

Just about all of us at CLAM are passionate ice fisherman and women. We work hard to put high quality, innovative products to market that we are proud to have our name on. We will stack our quality up against anyone’s. If you take the time to compare, to look into the details of all that we put into our products, we believe you’ll agree.

Steve Geertsen

CLAM Corporation

[BeenACrappieDay]

well color me impressed. that post fixed all of my concerns or doubts. thanks Steve, for making a statement. I agree, keeping the old hub is a generous resolution. it's just nice to hear Clam's side of it instead of social speculation that I myself was a part of as well. can't dispute the quality, it's a great shelter.

[BartmanMN]

kudos to Steve for joining and cleary explaining the issue at hand.

[NKLCOLT1911]

thanks for clearing the air steve, my confidence has been renewed, and after seeing darrens correct size 4000t on the ice at the cool cats ill be adding one to the line up next year for sure, will be one heck of a upgrade from the base camp.

[Riffle]

Thanks Steve, that is a great explanation and good info. Personally, I love all my Clam gear and will always be a loyal customer. I have never had an issue with customer service from Clam and to me this issue doesn't change my perception of the brand or company.

Bad news travels fast about a product while the good news is often lost or never mentioned at all, especially on the forums and interwebs.

As for the Bigfoot, this shelter is the real deal, I had it out in the recent Noreaster we had here in New England with just one guy line setup on the windward side of the shelter and even in 30 - 50 mph winds the shelter was a rock. It stayed outside overnight and didn't move. The wind was so strong that the ice anchor screw I used for the line was literally bent about 25 degrees from the force of the wind causing the metal to fatigue. The poles really performed too, all in, I was pretty impressed, and I expect a lot out of my gear given the conditions I fish in.

So again, thanks for explaining this issue, hopefully you guys can put it past you and use it as a learning experience. Soaring demand for your product is a nice problem to have but also comes with its own unique and unforseen challenges.

[JohnMickish]

Thanks Steve. I saw your post on Facebook and came here to direct people there but you beat me to it.

Guys, this IS what makes Clam the best company on the ice. Clam understands that it is the customers that keep the company in business, and customer service is what makes the difference.