Choose a firearms season vs hunt when and where I want

[lakevet]

Hearing about and having experienced hunters wanting to hunt the same place (private and public) at the same time and the resulting conflicts or at the least decreased enjoyment of the hunt makes me wonder what you think about hunters having to choose a season to hunt.

During your chosen season you would be afield with fewer fellow hunters. I think most of us want the sport and tradition of hunting to stay healthy with new hunters joining the ranks. Problem is that there is no more land being created and more is lost each year to hunting by anyone completely (urbanization, anti-hunting owners) and also to those who don't own land. This trend will only continue to worsen in the future. By having them choose a season you would be more likely to have an undisturbed hunt , especially on public, but often also on private land if all of us were spread out over several seasons instead of one free for all.....

I hunted Colorado for Elk. Had to pick one of multiple rifle seasons or the muzzleloader via lottery system. Hunted second rifle un guided on public land. First group was packing up when we pulled in. We did our hunt the the next group pulled in when we pulled out. Still more people than I prefer, but it was much better than if all had to compete for the same land in one free for all season.

MN used to limit hunters to picking a zone to hunt in during rifle season. Also could not hunt muzzleloader and rifle. We have right now a split season in zone 3 where hunters have to choose A season or B season.

I personally would prefer spreading people out via choice of season than letting them fight it out in the woods. Having kids I especially think of what they will be dealing with in their lifetime.

What are your thoughts?

lakevet

[InTheNorthwoods]

Hearing about and having experienced hunters wanting to hunt the same place (private and public) at the same time and the resulting conflicts or at the least decreased enjoyment of the hunt makes me wonder what you think about hunters having to choose a season to hunt.

During your chosen season you would be afield with fewer fellow hunters. I think most of us want the sport and tradition of hunting to stay healthy with new hunters joining the ranks. Problem is that there is no more land being created and more is lost each year to hunting by anyone completely (urbanization, anti-hunting owners) and also to those who don't own land. This trend will only continue to worsen in the future. By having them choose a season you would be more likely to have an undisturbed hunt , especially on public, but often also on private land if all of us were spread out over several seasons instead of one free for all.....

I hunted Colorado for Elk. Had to pick one of multiple rifle seasons or the muzzleloader via lottery system. Hunted second rifle un guided on public land. First group was packing up when we pulled in. We did our hunt the the next group pulled in when we pulled out. Still more people than I prefer, but it was much better than if all had to compete for the same land in one free for all season.

MN used to limit hunters to picking a zone to hunt in during rifle season. Also could not hunt muzzleloader and rifle. We have right now a split season in zone 3 where hunters have to choose A season or B season.

I personally would prefer spreading people out via choice of season than letting them fight it out in the woods. Having kids I especially think of what they will be dealing with in their lifetime.

What are your thoughts?

lakevet

My thought is that Minnesota is in the dark ages as far as managing the deer numbers, hunter opportunity, and herd quality. With that said, far too many people are entrenched in their position that any change is bad.

I would gladly welcome some changes that better address deer management and/or hunter management in more localized areas. Even if those changes reduced opportunity for some people at some times, because the overall result is that persons will have a better experience when they are afield. Kind of like saying "we're not going to be eating out at fast food restaurants every day now, instead, we're going to eat at the fancy steakhouse 5 days a week."

[TruthWalleyes]

Hearing about and having experienced hunters wanting to hunt the same place (private and public) at the same time and the resulting conflicts or at the least decreased enjoyment of the hunt makes me wonder what you think about hunters having to choose a season to hunt.

I think the current regs offer (at least me) a world of options.

I can hunt any zone in the state, whether it be lottery, choice, managed, intensive, etc...

I can hunt Bow, Slug, Muzzy season.

That's a lot of options to spread out the pressure. Yes, there are conflicts of private land(always will be, only way to remove the conflicts is to buy your own land), but if your not set on hunting in a specific area of the state, you can go find unpressured lands. I could hunt either season A or B in SE MN; it's just a choice between this group of people and their lands, or a different group of people. I think next year i'll hunt B just to spend time with a group of people that i haven't hunted with for several years...but it'll be hard to leave the current group of hunters for another.

[Jameson]

Start a rotation of the seasons with having to choose as season and I'll be all for it. One year archery is mid sept through Dec, the next year rifle season is mid sept through Dec, the following year muzzleloader season is mid sept through Dec. Then start the rotation over again.

[Musky Buck]

That's why my land is for sale, time to sell out because deer hunting is more a zoo/carnival than any sort of hunting going on and there's 0 chance it will get better, it can't, they've wiped out completely the wintering herd, we get what trickles in nowaday and that isn't much for that many guns, not to mention bow hunters and what they get or wound. The last 3 groups in my area that moved in on what was crazy good deer numbers are all brown down types with unlimited tags, well guess what there are very very few brown left. 200 acres of cover in the area and 20+ deer stands hunting the same herd, that is barely 10 acres a piece, ish. I'm solving my problem, sell and get out of dodge to a county where it isn't oversaturated with huge box stands. Those counties are becoming fewer, but I think I found a spot where I can't get fully encircled with box stands. The issue with that is the few deer around get ran out of the fields an hour before legal shooting and that's it for the day basically, you're seeing a 0 again and it has gotten much worse. These people don't care really, they just care that they get em and you don't and only the morning deer get tagged, the PM ones don't, they butcher their own and no wonder parts of 240 are so pathetic now, the DNR isn't getting any sort of real accurate kill count and now they're a year behind in slowing the doe permit offerings. Some sure think does are everywhere that there's this endless supply, there isn't. Need to get out of 240 asap. My dad quit deer hunting, I would've never ever thought I'd see that day, never, but I understand. I seem to be heading down his path, I'll have to change my name to just Musky lol. Another issue is guys who used to let little bucks walk are now realizing there isn't a big one coming anymore so I better take him, guys who used to do bucks only 1st weekend aren't anymore, guys are saving their tags for muzzy and 240 has the highest # of Muzzy hunters in the state, how is that most of them likely got a deer or 2 or 3 by rifle, but saved that crucial tag, so many think this save that tag you never know when the big 1 will come by and no way is the neighbor getting him, I really need to do a fly over once on opening day just to see how close and how many are sitting so close these days. Why so many are baiting is for many reasons stated above. At least a few of my neighbors agree we shouldn't shoot anything except large bucks this year, no does or fawns should be taken, even then it would take years to bring it back to decent only to have it likely slaughtered off again. Same reasons musky fishing is a 1/10th as good as it used to be, too many of us lol.

[MUSKY18]

Start a rotation of the seasons with having to choose as season and I'll be all for it. One year archery is mid sept through Dec, the next year rifle season is mid sept through Dec, the following year muzzleloader season is mid sept through Dec. Then start the rotation over again.

A rifle season that long? How many deer do you think would be taken illegaly during that? Herd would be wiped out within two years.

I am on the fence. I like the gun season how it is now because I can rifle hunt more, but I think back when they had a 1st weekend and 2nd weekend hunt, it seemed like there was less pressure. I know people that used to share their private land between groups. One group would hunt one weekend, other group the next. Now that the one group can hunt the entire season, the other group lost their place to hunt. Guess where they hunt now. Public land (See other threads on this). If I had to pick a way, I'd probably say go back to the old way and run with that. Pick your zone and stay in it. Heck, why not bring back the old metal tags with the big ball on the end of them instead of these new fangled fancy ones we have. Paper license too!

[Musky Buck]

I had to re-read that, just shoot large bucks, me and the neighbor had a good laugh about that we both had the same 1 on cam in August, we had to re-state just shoot the large buck singular, and he's likely in someone's freezer poached,bow shot, or in another county lol.

[HunterLee]

Going back to the split season would be nice, and going back to picking a firearm season to.

Muzzleloader is more of a drawn out rifle season. The people that hunt both seem to shoot plenty of deer with the rifle and then save their tag for the big one.

Tons of big bucks get shot with the muzzleloader that shouldn't.

Go back to shotguns too rifles make it to easy to reach out and touch them.

[Coach1310]

I honestly think some of the problem will take care of itself with people not happy with how it is going out there and newcomers hearing all the issues and decided to not hunt. I don't have all the years of experience others do.... but some things that have affected the quality of our hunting....

1. The elmination of marginal land that is turned into crop fields... thousands of acres of fencelines, overgrown pastures, margin field/grasslands have been tilled up to plant corn... not to mention the acres of CRP lost... less places to hide means more dead deer.

2. I think there was a bit of a oversight on deer numbers and I don't believe anyone should ever have been allowed to take 5 except in highly urban areas.

3. The changing in systems where you can hunt wherever during the season... I like the change, but it has led to more deer harvested.

To be honest, I would be open to some changes, BUT only if those changes do NOT change the seasons. I hear the bowhunting side say eliminate the rifle hunt during the rut... I would be for that if ALL SEASONS were closed Nov 1st-Nov 15th if that is determined as the peak rutting times. Not just eliminated for gun hunters.

It should be an interesting discussion..... Musky Buck, I can't even count the times I have heard you mention the same issues on this site... I hope for your sake you can sell your land and find other suitable areas... It pains me when folks are bothered by these things so much... Hunting is such a great thing that gets too many people down!

[bowhunternw]

I would strongly support this. This would effectively spread out the hunters IMO. The way it is now it is favorable for those that own their own land, but is tough for those that don't. I quit gun hunting about 6 years ago just because I don't like trying to fight for a spot to hunt. Would like to see the gun season split up and also pick your season - rifle,muzzleloader or bow. We are losing habitat fast in farm country and those people are either going to quit hunting or they are going to jump onto already crowded public land.

[McGurk]

MuskyBuck, I hunt 240 also, and I blame the years of intensive harvest imposed on the area messing up the overall herd. This year was one of the better ones in the last 5 years, due to going from the 5 deer intensive harvest zone 5 years ago to 2 deer management zone, and now this year as a one deer either-or zone. For the whole state, I don't think archery or M.L. taken deer are as high as most think:

Rifle/shotgun:between 130,000 and 260,000 deer/year over the last 18 years, about 175,000 avg the last 4 years

Archery: between 12,000 and 25,000 deer/year over the last 18 years, about 22,000 avg the last 4 years

Muzzleloader: between 2,000 and 15,000 deer/ year over the last 18 years, about 9,000 avg the last 4 years

[jkcmj]

The DNR wanted the lower deer numbers, and are happy with the way it has gone. I personally should have known better, but enjoyed harvesting 5 deer a year for some time...now with so few left in our area, I'm paying for my own greed. We've mostly let does go for 3 years now, and still do not see any recovery in numbers. Many of our neighbors are of course still harvesting does at will. We only harvest them on my brother's land, which now switched to managed.

With insurance and farm groups pushing for less deer, even now, and with CWD scared folks out there, I don't see the DNR allowing anything that will rebound the numbers.

I think we need to get used to passing up the does and trying to convince our neighbors to do the same...

I would like to see the gun seasons moved out of the rut, like WI, but don't see it happening.

[Musky Buck]

It isn't the gun season moving out of the rut, that won't change many areas as there still will be box stands on every 5 acres, all it would do would make my swamp hunting better and thin woods/marginal lands in cold years won't have a deer near them so I'm in favor, but with 500k hunters it won't change things much, people might get back to making more drives though as they'll get even more nocturnal. It's the people need to quit this competitive mindset that the next guy will drop him or her. If we have a tough winter oh boy, remember all that corn that is now all gone and plowed black ? Farmland deer could really take a beating "in places", what's left of them. I did get my 1 neighbor onboard that there isn't this endless supply of antlerless deer, he said trophy buck or bust and I said since 1986. I asked how many deer have you 4 guys seen, there still waiting for the 1st I said then it really is in bad shape around here.

[lakevet]

That's a lot of options to spread out the pressure. Yes, there are conflicts of private land(always will be, only way to remove the conflicts is to buy your own land), but if your not set on hunting in a specific area of the state, you can go find unpressured lands.

The vast majority of hunters hunt the same traditional location and do not travel, hence the crowding and fights over "my spot" and the " we been here for 10,20, 30 etc years" argument as to why the "newcomers" should leave.

lakevet