I killed the smoked Lake Trout

[BRULEDRIFTER]

So, this last weekend I smoked up around 10 lbs of fresh lake trout (caught on Superior in Mid-Sept - Lean Laker).

For the brine I used a recipe I got word of mouth:

9 cups water

1 cup kosher salt

1 cup brown sugar

Considering the amount of fish I had I made a batch and a half:

14.5 cups water

1.5 cups kosher salt

1.5 cups brown sugar

I let them sit in the brine for approximately 36 hrs (Thursday evening put in brine, Sat AM put in smoker).

Let the fish smoke all day (approximately 8 hrs @ 150-170 degrees. Put in smoker at 0730 let sit for half hour and started smoker at 8, shut off smoker at around 4 and let them sit in smoker to cool off, removed around 8pm).

Tried one of the smaller pieces and holy cow... SALTY!!!! Tried some of the thicker filets and YUCK! Really greasy, fishy tasting as heck and still really salty.

So, how did I kill these fish? I'm assuming I probably soaked them in the brine for too long (was told that it wouldn't make a difference)?

Was it the kosher salt that made them so salty? It was only 1.5 cups to 14.5 cups of water??

What was with the fishy taste? It was a lean fish, not a fatty siscowette, but I did see quite a bit of fat on the filets.

Anybody have any ideas as to how I killed these fish? I'm sick to my stomach over this (and it's not from the horrible fish).

Thanks!

[SandPoint]

Sounds like you left them in the brine too long, also got to rinse them after brining. I am pretty salt sensitive so I am careful with brine times but it depends on fillet thickness and or using whole fish. As for the fishy taste that could be a few things. The salt ratio seems about right though.

[live4chrome]

How was it frozen? Always freeze lakers in a food saver or at least in water, or even better do the m fresh. Also sounds like you didn't rinse them after brining. This is your salty issue, try brining 12-20 hours. 36 is too long Thats what i do and use a recipie very close to yours.

[delcecchi]

I know this is probably a dumb question but you did have everything really cold all the time while brining? And thawed them in the refrigerator? When we went canoeing and tried to bring fish back one time, I was really stunned by how fast lake trout spoil if they get warm. And I don't think they have to be much off to be fishy.

Also, what were they like when you froze them? did you cook any at the time you put them in the freezer?

A little too long in the brine and not rinsing would account for salty.

[lispeej]

x3 on the rinsing and over brining. I've smoked trout before and only brined them overnight in the fridge.

[thirdeye]

It could be a combination of things, or just one little thing. Trout kept for smoking should be dressed immediately after catching and kept iced in a cooler. This gives you the best flavor and texture. Your cure time could have been too long based on the thickness of the fillets. Or your brine could have been too strong. Following the brining or curing, there should be serious rinsing and/or even a soak-out, followed by a long rest in the fridge to allow everything to equalize.

[Deitz Dittrich]

Here I got all excited that you "Killed" in a good way!.. Sorry to hear things did not go well. If I would listen to anybody on the boards here, it would be the Thirdeye!.. I have never met him, but its on my bucket list! He seems to know his stuff, and then some.. He probably has forgot more than I will ever know....

But I rinse multiple times, and then let sit.. and then rinse again..

The way I look at it, if seasoning is needed after all is said and done, add a dip.. LOL.. and the dip is not me.

[eyeguy 54]

yepper, sounds like a case of in the brine too long. pieces up to 1 inch thick are in the brine 4 to 8 hours. rinse good, pat dry and let sit for a couple hours to get tacky then into the smoker. your proportions sound fine for salt and sugar. as far as the bad fishy taste not sure what happened there. sounds like they were on the smoker a long time also. better luck on the next try.

[BRULEDRIFTER]

Thanks for all the responses!

I did rinse them, but potentially needed to rinse much longer. As for how they were frozen and thawed... they were frozen within hours after cleaning (wrapped in freezer paper) and in the brine still a touch frozen in the center. They brined in the fridge and then in tupperware containers in a cooler in the truck over night on Friday (temps were near freezing).

I can understand the over-saltiness issue, but I just can't figure out why it was so darn oily and fishy tasting. I knew I should have waited until Friday to put them in the brine!!!

Kind of gun shy now on smoking fish. Next time I do it's going to be a small amount of fish and following an exact recipe.

I guess I'll just chalk this one up as a "learned lesson" in the ever growing learning curve that is smoking.

[jentz]

Lakers are really oily fish.I do a 12 Hr brine real close to yours.Start a low temp smoke for about 3 hrs Then crank up the heat to cook oil out,275 till they seem to have lost oil and moisture.You'll see it dripping out and coagulating.When that seems to stop they come out.That fishy flavor is in the oil.I would rather do a fish soup or a boil with lakers.

[pikestabber]

One thing you can do with your fish now that you are unhappy with them is can them. If you are interested I can post the process here. By virtue of canning them, much of the oil (and perhaps a fair amount of the salt) will end up as liquid in the bottom of the jar leaving you with drier chunks of fish you can serve on crackers or make dip/sandwiches out of. It may be a way of salvaging what you have and preserving it long term. Another major benefit to canned fish, aside from shelf life, is that it completely softens all the bones. Just make sure you remove the rib bones prior to packing the jars. My only knock against canning is that it can remove too much oil from fish like suckers, etc. (I end up shaking the jars to redistribute the oil which you would NOT want to do in this case). With oily lakers, this may be just the ticket to save your batch.

[LABS4ME]

Do a smoked Laker / Cream Chz. spread. The saltiness will be off set by the cream cheese and the fishy taste is actually a benefit. Some good Melba toast or any good cracker... I bet it will help you be able to utilize what you made! Try it out... skip the salt if it is already too salty...

8 ounces cream cheese, at room temperature

1/2 cup sour cream

1-2 tablespoon freshly squeezed lemon juice

1 tablespoon minced fresh dill (1/4 - 1/2 tsp dried)

1 teaspoon prepared horseradish, drained

1/2 teaspoon kosher salt

1/4 teaspoon freshly ground black pepper

1/4 pound (4 ounces) smoked salmon, minced (Lakers are very good in this recipe)

couple of dashes of Worchestshire sauce

Mix all ingredients except fish first, slowly fold in crumbled fish. Make sure you remove the lateral line (grey meat) that is extra fishy...

Good Luck!

Ken

[BRULEDRIFTER]

Awesome suggestion, Labs! I think I'll go that route!

I almost tossed all the fish last night before posting this. Glad I waited!

Pikestabber, thanks for the canning suggestion. I want to learn more about canning, however, I won't have any time to do that over the next few weeks.

[pikestabber]

For future reference, here’s what I do and it works great for me…

CANNING FISH (I SUGGEST USING PINT JARS)

1. Clean the jars in hot soapy water. Make sure you discard any jars that are cracked or chipped. Boil the snap lids in order to soften the sealing compound. Do not however, boil the lids for more than 5 minutes. Even after they have been boiled, keep the snap lids in hot water until the time you are ready to use them.

2. Pack the fish into the jars, leaving about 1 inch of head-space (don’t pack too tightly). Add one teaspoon of oil* to each pint jar (in addition, you can add garlic, jalapenos, or a seasoning of your choice). (*YOU MAY WANT TO SKIP THE OIL FOR FISH THAT IS HIGH IN NATURAL OILS).

3. After you pack the fish inside the jar, be sure to wipe the rim of the jar with a clean paper towel. Center the snap lid on the jar and apply the screw band until just finger tight. Place the jars inside the canner leaving at least 1/2" of space between each jar.

4. When the canner is full to its maximum capacity, add water to the canner (the water level should be about halfway up the jars).

5. Seal the canner lid and start the heat. Wait for a steady stream of steam to start before adding your weight. When your canner reaches 10 lbs. of pressure, start the timer (90 minutes). Adjust heat to ensure the canner stays at or just above 10lbs of pressure the entire time. After the processing time is over, remove the canner from the heat. Wait until the pressure inside the canner drops to zero. Wait for another few minutes before removing the cover of the canner.

6. Take the jars out and place them on a towel in an upright position. Let them cool for about 24 hours. After 24 hours, check the seal on the jars. They should be curved downwards, and should not flex on pressing (removing the rings and trying to pop the top with your fingers will let you know if the jars have sealed completely…the tops should not budge...).

7. Wipe the jars with a moist cloth, and remove the screw bands. You can now store the jars as per your convenience. Make sure that the jars are always kept in a cool, dark place (pantry, etc.).

Once they are cooled and ready to eat, each canned jar produces the perfect amount of fish for a cracker dip such as Labs4Me posted above. Also, to second Labs, and I can't stress this enough, do not add any of the dark fatty "mudline" in with your fish or it will boil through and permeate the whole thing (the red on the skin next to the fillet should be scraped off as much as you can, as well).

[Surface Tension]

Here is my brine for fish.

1 gallon water

1 cup non iodized salt

1 cup brown sugar (optional in brine or sprinkle on before smoking)

2 tp. sodium nitrate (optional) If your trying to create the taste of commercially

smoked fish but can't this is your missing ingredient.

If you have Red Fin lake Trout then you fillet them and smoke skin side down.

With Red Fin and Salmon I don't use any sugar but use chopped dill.

Otherwise steak the (oily)lake trout. Why because if you smoke oily fish with skin side down the oil can't drip off. If you've already filleted the lake trout and froze them, then after the brine cut slices down to the skin every 1.5". Don't cut through the skin but poke holes though it as each segment. This will let the oil drain.

Dissolve salt, sugar, & SN in cold water and add your fish.

I use a cooler for this and will throw in ice cubes to keep the brine cold

so no need to store in the fridge.

Soak overnight which equates to around 12 hours.

Rinse fish, pat the water off then let air dry on racks.

[atvlaska]

911!!!! to much salt!!!!! not a good rinse! the salt was/is for the old days...where u didnt toss the goods in the fridge/ frezzer..........if you are smokeing the fish to the point that "a white gel/oils build on the surface...u have the somke/er to hot and maybe even to long!!!.........its is a sad - sad day when a laker dies the way u killed it

[thirdeye]

Here I got all excited that you "Killed" in a good way!.. Sorry to hear things did not go well. If I would listen to anybody on the boards here, it would be the Thirdeye!.. I have never met him, but its on my bucket list! He seems to know his stuff, and then some.. He probably has forgot more than I will ever know....

But I rinse multiple times, and then let sit.. and then rinse again..

The way I look at it, if seasoning is needed after all is said and done, add a dip.. LOL.. and the dip is not me.

Well, thanks for the kind words... I hope my ball cap still fits. I have to point out that the reason I visit forums like this one is because I am still learning new tricks myself, and there is nobody any better to visit with about smoked fish than folks like the ones here that also like to smoke them. BTW, I just put three pieces of salmon in my Big Chief.

[thirdeye]

Thanks for all the responses!

I did rinse them, but potentially needed to rinse much longer. As for how they were frozen and thawed... they were frozen within hours after cleaning (wrapped in freezer paper) and in the brine still a touch frozen in the center. They brined in the fridge and then in tupperware containers in a cooler in the truck over night on Friday (temps were near freezing).

I can understand the over-saltiness issue, but I just can't figure out why it was so darn oily and fishy tasting. I knew I should have waited until Friday to put them in the brine!!!

Kind of gun shy now on smoking fish. Next time I do it's going to be a small amount of fish and following an exact recipe.

I guess I'll just chalk this one up as a "learned lesson" in the ever growing learning curve that is smoking.

I'm thinking over brining is most of the problem, however smoking fresh fish produces a better product than frozen fish. Freezing will reduce some of the moisture, leaving more fat... and fat combined with air can go kind of rancid, which is why wrapping well is important. Anyways, these things can give you a slightly stronger flavor and a different texture. Even how fast your fish freeze is important. I like to spread my fillets on wax paper on aluminum pans for the initial freeze. Then when they are mostly set, I transfer to vacuum bags.

If you have ever frozen bacon and not eaten it within a month or so, you can notice the same thing. It's fattier and stronger tasting than when it was fresh.

Lastly don't get gun shy about somking fish. As an alternate to a brine, I use a dry cure on my trout and salmon, I'll dig up the link and edit this post shortly. I also like the ideas about making a spread or canning fish, I really like canned trout too.

Here is the link to an earlier post with my dry cure method. You can pretty much change the seasoning up (like adding more or less pepper) and if you are doing thick fillets, go longer on the cure time.

http://www.hotspotoutdoors.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/2551539/1

[BRULEDRIFTER]

Thanks, 3rdeye!

[thirdeye]

You are more than welcome. Check your Private Messages.

[Mnfisher]

I used Thirdeye's dry cure last winter on Canadian trout that were frozen for a couple of weeks. They turned out fantastic. Try that dry rub process next time!!!

[thirdeye]

An interesting thought here, and something we often choose to ignore.... is the actual cost of trout. When you factor in time, gasoline and consumables for the day (or weekend), your trout may be running you $10 to $15 a pound. Naturally, this is not going to change my attitude on fishing as often as I can..... but,... it opens the door for watching for fish like salmon or steelhead to go on sale. When I can find it around $5 to $6 a pound, and the skin is still on, I'll make a meal out of some, and cure and smoke the remainder.

I got these two sides for $30, at Safeway, my buddy split the cost with me, and we each got 3 nice pieces. With no cleaning and de-boning involved the prep and cure process was only about 15 minutes (I usually have dry cure in my freezer).