Latest in AR platforms?

[Random guy]

Sorry if this topic is buried somewhere but I didn’t find it so here goes.

I am doing more and more predator hunting every year. What started out as problem coyote is now FoxPro and Primos electric callers, vests, hours on the reloading table and just a mess of gear to hunt furbearers. Now I have been using my Seko .243 without complaints other then I am slowly destroying the gun. The rigors of predator hunting are starting to show. In response to the dirt, brush and abuse of this type of hunting I am looking at the AR platform rifles. Such as the Remmington R-15, or Colt model and even some that are customized just for predator hunting.

Anybody have any first hand with the latest in the AR platforms and what is the longer range accuracy (200 plus) really like coming out of a automatic?

[Scott K]

Jonny, I am not an expert on this topic, but I have been looking at one of these, but just havent pulled the trigger yet.

http://www.hotspotoutdoors.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/2673023/2/AR_15_rifle_and_shotguns_for_s

[Archerysniper]

I would look into a Rock river Coyote or one of their other models. And .223 should be big enough for your critters but you could always get it in .243 for some bigger animals like deer too.

[picksbigwagon]

Johnny, I bought an Olympic Arms K8 and it is very accurate. It has a 20" bull barrel which can be heavy when out walking and calling, their K16 is a 16 inch bull barrel which would be lighter. I will put my K8 and hand loads up against any of the other makers, cost new right now is 7-800

[Random guy]

I have been looking at many models/makes and it is option overload. I am going to go .223 as I already have big long range guns. Hoping with the smaller caliber and lighter load I can actaully bring in an entire fur and not just one side.

I did notice the multiple barrel options and figure if I can pick at 200 yards I would be good as it is hard to find 200 yards of open country around here. Shorter barrel would be nice but I need all the help I can get as I am a poor shot.

[Eric Wettschreck]

Jon, I know you're looking at the AR's but knowing you're looking at these styles for predators in the woods, I'm going to toss something totally different at you to chew on.

First off, let me say I have very little experience with today's style AR.

I've been shooting yotes down here for quite a few years with my Mauser 7.62. Good range at 200 yards +, in the brush it compares to a .30-.30 (kinda), and doesn't blow the other side of the pelt off. I'm not going to proclaim I'm the greatest shot on the planet but if it's under 300 yards out and standing still, it's down.

The down side is it's a real shoulder buster.

Just tossin it out for you to chew on a bit.

[Archerysniper]

Jonny look at the Rock River sweet 16 with the collapsable stock. That should fit your needs.

[LMITOUT]

A Rock River is going to run you about $1200. Not sure what price range you're looking at, but they are a quality piece.

I'm guessing you're probably not going to be mounting lasers, flashlights, vertical handgrips, or a coffee maker off the handguard, so a tactical model with a quad rail really isn't needed. I have a Rock River "Predator Pursuit" which is in their hunting line of AR's. They also have a "Coyote Rifle" and "Coyote Carbine" along with a "Varmint" model. All of these have free floating hand tubes (no picatinny rails) which helps shave weight compared to a quadrail that you typically find on a "tactical" AR.

I believe all Rock Rivers have the winter trigger guard which has a larger opening that is glove friendly for your trigger finger. Nice feature for hunting. RR's also have a pretty sweet trigger right out of the box.

You can get 16" or 20" barrels on the Predator and Coyote, but the Varmint model also offers 18" and 24" barrel options. RRA guarantees these guns will shoot 3/4 MOA @100yds. I've had good luck with mine. Consistently on target if I'm doing my job.

The downside to wanting a Rock River is that they can be difficult to get because of the demand, and I don't know what gun shops, if any, carry them. I had to order mine from a place in Texas (Class 3 Weapons) that is a RRA outlet/store front of sorts. Good prices, fast shipping.

The other suggestion is a DPMS. I've seen them in Scheels and Reeds has them too. My bro-in-law has a Bushmaster that he uses for coyote hunting and I think he likes it.

Here are the current lead times on the RR models I mentioned if you plan on a custom order:

RRA LAR-15 Coyote 20" Models - 93 days from Factory Order Date (date last group received 06/20/2012)

RRA LAR-15 Predator Pursuit 16" Models - 125 days from Factory Order Date (date last group received 08/14/2012)

RRA LAR-15 Predator Pursuit 20" Models - 53-90 days from Factory Order Date (date last group received 09/25/2012)

It looks like Class3 does have two Predator Pursuit models with 20" barrel on hand for $1069 and one Coyote with a 16" barrel and collapsible stock for $1125.

[Whoaru99]

Shorter barrel would be nice but I need all the help I can get as I am a poor shot.

A longer barrel isn't inherently more accurate, probably even less so, unless you're talking about open sights long barrel vs. open sights short barrel where the longer sight radius usually inherent to longer barrels helps accuracy.

The longer barrel typically facilitates more velocity but at 200yds max it's probably not a big factor over the typically lighter and faster handling, at least as accurate if not more (assuming optical sights), shorter barrel unit.

With regard to velocity, read a report where a gent tested 6 different factory loads and two handloads and found the average velocity change was 33fps @ 15ft from muzzle per inch of barrel change (24", 20, 18, and 16 all in an AR-style rifle were used).

[Random guy]

Wow, thanks guys, lots of good info. Looks like a short barrel is a better choice and I planned on spending the cash to make it right, I already have cheap guns I hate.

I also seen the the models with rails on every open spot, not for me but I am digging the camo. Tonight I read up on calibers and loads and the .223 does score well wih what I want to do. 22-250 has a bit more horse power down range but if that is the case I already have a .243. I still have the larger rifles if I need to get crazy but most sits I am debating if I should have brought the 10 gauge instead; distance is hard to come by in the swamp. I looked into the smaller stuff such as the .204 and it sounded like even at close range some shots can go bad.

Either way I will just be happy to not worry about every peice of brush scraping the stocks up on the Sakos and Colt Sauer. In my neck of the woods guns should come with a machette mounted so you can get to your spot.

[picksbigwagon]

That is what the 10 ga. Is for right?

On atlantic arms right now the Olympic Arms k16 is $739....... You can easiy install the winter trigger guard for under 30 bucks yourself. Mike Milli in Bemidji is who I bought my K8 from, he goes by DTech on a lot of AR and predator forums. His HSOforum is dedicatedtechnologies in case you want to customize something. He cranks out some wicked AR's.........

[Moose-Hunter]

Sorry if this topic is buried somewhere but I didn’t find it so here goes.

I am doing more and more predator hunting every year. What started out as problem coyote is now FoxPro and Primos electric callers, vests, hours on the reloading table and just a mess of gear to hunt furbearers. Now I have been using my Seko .243 without complaints other then I am slowly destroying the gun. The rigors of predator hunting are starting to show. In response to the dirt, brush and abuse of this type of hunting I am looking at the AR platform rifles. Such as the Remmington R-15, or Colt model and even some that are customized just for predator hunting.

Anybody have any first hand with the latest in the AR platforms and what is the longer range accuracy (200 plus) really like coming out of a automatic?

From what I'm hearing, you're a lot like me when I started out yote poppin' a few years back. I went through about every configuration of "off the rack" AR's before I found one that was a good fit for me. I built one. And for less cash than a store bought.

To complicated? To much hassle? Nope!! If you have any mechanical aptitude, you can build your lower receiver in less than an hour. Pick out a stock, then either build or buy a upper. Your only worry from here would be sights and/or optics.

The money saved by doing it yourself, can be put towards a higher grade of parts, barrel, optics.... And you still come out on top. PLUS... You get a gun that not only is better than "off the rack", it's one YOU built! Satisfaction city!!

I'm no rocket scientist, yet every AR in my safe has been built by me, with a specific purpose in mind. From a mild .22LR to a long range .308... All started from a bare lower receiver and parts kit.

Trust me man... It's Easy! REALLY easy! Search youtube for videos or check out the AR15 HSOforum for step-by-step instructions. PM me and I could even walk you though it over the phone!

[Random guy]

Well I am a certified Aerospace Technician and was a heavy equipment mechanic for 15 years so I should use some of that to save some cash...and make what I want.

I'm liking that idea.

[Moose-Hunter]

Well I am a certified Aerospace Technicain and was a heavy equipment mechanic for 15 years so I should use some of that to save some cash...and make what I want.

I'm liking that idea.

Roger that... Can you say over qualified? LOL!!

Seriously... It really is that simple. I taught two of my neighbors how to build lowers. One who actually knew what a strap wrench was. The other thought it was some kinky device from late night movies.

For a good huntin' tool, no need for you to go "designer" and use any of the billet lower receivers. A good forged mil-spec lower and you'll be good to go. There are a couple brands to stay away from and you'll find those out if you do a bit of research. The internet is your friend!

Find a good quality parts kit. I've used DPMS in the past with decent results. Cheap and easy to find.

I've got a few sources for those, and other parts, if you need a push in the right direction. Just PM me and I'll be happy to help any way I can.

[Whoaru99]

Perhaps I missed it in the thread but, FYI, for building an AR-style rifle the only part you need to get through a FFL holder is the lower. All other parts are fair game for anyone (well perhaps excluding convicted felons, etc.) to order/transfer.

[bloc004]

I also built one and I knew nothing about it before I did. I watched a video on u tube. I bought a lower from Spike's tactical for around $100, DPMS lower parts kit and a spikes tactical upper. Used the money I saved for the Nikon M-223 scope. Plus, you get the satisfaction of using something you built!

[Random guy]

Ok can I build an AR with self centering fur seeking bullets, a scope that flaashes the crosshairs when I am locked on like a fighter jet? Maybe a gel stabilizer like on a bow...and a fold out shooting bench? Not just a bipod but a complete table and chair that folds out in the field. Just came in from a report of coyotes on the back 80, yup missed not one but two. First one at 100 yards standing still broadside, second one facing me at 50 yards, standing as still as a paper target. Not really sure what I did but the Sako was shot afterwards. 100 yard shot with 3 shot group covering 3/4" in the rain and wind resting on a wet carboard box; can't blame the gun on that one.

[kerryd15]

the way that sounds the gun may be cheap but you can use what you saved for more shells!!

just kidding.

[Random guy]

Ya it was a mess.

The woman is coming out tommorow...stuff will tip over.

[JigginGopher]

Cannot comment on the Remington R-15 specifically but own a Remington R-25 in .243 that i use for predator hunting. Love it. It has functioned flawlessly since i bought it 2 years ago and shoots very accurately. Have a buddy with a R-15 in .223 that he seem to love as well. With the reduced weight compared to my R-25 and the fact that you will be using it exclusively for coyote, I think that would be a great option.

[Fishinguy40]

Moose-Hunter, isn't a special tool needed for building an AR15? I started looking into doing the same thing awhile ago. Didn't get too deep into it but thought that I heard/read one special tool is needed. I can't remember what it is for or how much it cost.

[Moose-Hunter]

Moose-Hunter, isn't a special tool needed for building an AR15? I started looking into doing the same thing awhile ago. Didn't get too deep into it but thought that I heard/read one special tool is needed. I can't remember what it is for or how much it cost.

The answer is yes... and no.

There are special tools available and if you were going to build the WHOLE rifle, meaning a complete upper assembly as well as a lower receiver, then yes. I'd be picking up a receiver block as it make torquing down the barrel nut much easier. BUT... with a little ingenuity, that too can be done with common hand tools and what you find around the house, garage and/or shop.

There's a combination wrench of sorts that make a few tasks a little easier, but in my opinion you really don't absolutely need one. The only tool I wouldn't want to be without is a strap wrench. Great for AR's! Many uses! And... it comes in handy around the house/garage.

For building the lower receiver... It's basically installing all the small parts and trigger assembly... Only common tools anybody would have will do the trick. Just take your time. Be mindful of flying pins and springs. Use more than a few layers of tape to protect the lower receiver. (You'll understand that when you see build instructions.) And always remember to TAKE IT EASY when installing the roll pin for the trigger guard. THE EARS MUST BE SUPPORTED!!! Again, you'll see why.

Yes... It really IS that easy.

[Fishinguy40]

So where would be a good place to look for purchasing the items needed...lower receiver and parts? Any recommended brands or brands to stay away from as you said?

[Moose-Hunter]

So where would be a good place to look for purchasing the items needed...lower receiver and parts? Any recommended brands or brands to stay away from as you said?

Not so much brands but material to stay away from. As said, I'm no expert but have built quite a few AR's. For me, and forged or billet lower is good to go. I find billet to be a bit more "precise" with fit and finish. However, the tighter tolerances can sometime be too close and cause minor fit problems with parts and mags. I've never had a problem with any well know brand of forged lower. I've built guns on DPMS, Stag, LMT, Aero Precision, CMT .... And many other "off" brands. Mil-spec to me is just that... mil-spec. All the lower does is hold the trigger group. 99% of the fun (critical) stuff happens in the upper. This (again, IMHO) is where the rubber hits the road and closer attention to detail is required.

What to stay away from... IMHO... Any of the poly lowers. As in plastic. Granted, there are a ton of poly guns on the market today that function just fine. However, from what I've seen, having only built one with a poly lower, I cans see where all the problems come from. The one (and only) poly lower I had came from a reputable supplier and was a bugger to assembly. No even close to what would be called "mil-spec". Then, due to manufacturer (molding) issues, the upper was not even close to fitting the lower. After mods, I did get it to work but vowed... never again.

On the flip side... Some poly lower have had zero problems. As they say, your mileage may vary. But for me.... forged or billet aluminum.

Currently, lowers can be tough to find. Especially the upper end billets. Your best bet is searching the net and not be too picky with roll marks. Or try the classifieds on many of the AR related sites. Those sites usually list sponsors which could be a good resource. Fear buying is running wild. Be persistent in your search and it will pay off sooner or later.

[Fishinguy40]

So I bit the bullet on Tuesday night and ordered a stripped lower receiver and a lower build kit from Palmetto State Armory. $214 total with the shipping plus another $25 to the FFL agent for the transfer I can start building my ARE-15. Looking forward to it as I am on medical leave from work the next 4 weeks and will have something to do!