Learning Crankbaits

[amateurfishing]

where do u find those trolling chart books and whats an inexpensive decent counter reel?

[CaptainMusky]

The cabelas depth master rod and reel combos are decent and will not break the bank on price. Get at least a 7 foot rod.

For trolling in rod holders I like a soft tip, but a good back bone. This way the fish can hit the bait and get hooked merely by their thrashing. A stiff rod often results in lost fish because the rod can actually pull the lure away from the fish as it rebounds from the strike. I personally like using power pro line with a fluoro or mono leader the last few feet. The mono leader also allows a little shock absorption which I think helps hooking fish. Braided lines do not stretch at all and its easy to pull the lure away from the fish because its so sensitive.

[amateurfishing]

any reviews on whuppin stick combos?

[amateurfishing]

whens a good time to buy a rod/counter reel combo for this?

how do i know the crankbait is acting properly, what is it supposed to do?

[CaptainMusky]

It should have side to side action and not roll under or over itself. If you notice the lure is running more to one side than you need to bend the eyelet slightly to adjust it using a needlenose pliers. I have had great luck with Rapalas running true out of the box, but over time they get fouled up so I check them each time at boatside. Bend the eyelet in the direction the lure tends to run (opposite of what you would think). Dont do it much, and then retry.

As far as timing to buy, now the inventories are going to be pretty low so selection would be limited, but you could possibly find some deals. Best thing would be to just pop in to one of the large retailers and see what they have.

[JohnMickish]

To really shorten the learning curve, and it can take years doing it yourself since there is a TON of information, jump in with someone, pay their gas, sit down and ask questions. Or, it's not the cheapest way to go but probably the most cost effective would be to hire a guide.

Say you want to learn how to crank Mille Lacs, hire a guide for the day, pay the $350 and have him teach you the basics in both equipment and technique. Bring a buddy and split the costs to help out. It will take so much frustration out of your program you will be able to enjoy fishing, which is why you are there in the first place, right?

[Comit 2]

I don't know why you would want a levelwind, line counter reel. With the new supper braid lines and there small diameter there is no need for that large of a line capacity. Plus they are low geared.

If you feel you must have one or two I would suggest the Okuma Convector levelwind line counters. Last time I looked Okuma made the Cabela reels.

It is so much easier with spinning gear. You can cast out give the rod one or two pumps and be fishing a lot faster then waiting for the line to run out of a levelwind reel. You can stop and cast without a gear change. Oh did I mention the LOW gearing of the High capacity reels? Definitely go with a high capacity reel for lead core. Leadcore is also metered with colors so a line counter is not necessary.

Get the Book "Spoonpluging" by Buck Perry.

[Comit 2]

Quote:

any reviews on whuppin stick combos?

They are heavy.

Gary Roach, MR Walleye rods like the MR WALLEYE MWS80MCT 8'0" Telescopic Trolling Rod with an Okuma Convector reel would be a fine way to go. That setup would cover a lot of bases. $170 for the two without line. It is my bottom bouncer rig/troller when I have 2 guests on board. As I said before I like spinning gear and metered line.

[Chumba]

how do i know the crankbait is acting properly, what is it supposed to do?

I like to let about 5 feet of line out at the side of the boat. Give the lure several quick pulls straight forward through the water. You can tell fairly easily if the lure pulls to one side.

As far as those books with the dive cures, it's called persison trolling or the trollers bible. They are out of print and expensive if you do find them. There are threads about it on here if you search.

[Comit 2]

Quote:

where do u find those trolling chart books

There was a discussion on this not to long ago. The link below will take you to it. There is a mention of an app and facebook page on crankbait running depths.

http://www.hotspotoutdoors.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/2906267/Re_trolling_chart#Post2906267

[kfk]

I'd always recommend a line counter reel for trolling crankbaits. You never know how much line is out without a linecounter (except for colors of lead core) and you can't exactly reproduce a scenario that's working without a line counter. Even with lead core, how do you know how long your leader is unless you measure it some other way? Precise depth control is very important in most trolling applications and if you don't know the length of your leader on the end of the lead core, you won't know how deep your crank is running. Linecounters are critical to crankbait success while trolling in my opinion.

What about using boards? Without a counter, how much line do you have between between your board and the rod?

What about using snap weights or in-line weights of some type? Without a line counter, you really can't use either very effectively.

Even pulling a crankbait without a weight system requires the knowledge of how much line you have out to determine how deep your crankbait is running.

Successfully trolling crankbaits is really nothing more than reproducing a scenario that's working and without linecounter reels, there is no easy way to reproduce a depth successfully.

[Borch]

I don't know why you would want a levelwind, line counter reel. With the new supper braid lines and there small diameter there is no need for that large of a line capacity. Plus they are low geared.

If you feel you must have one or two I would suggest the Okuma Convector levelwind line counters. Last time I looked Okuma made the Cabela reels.

It is so much easier with spinning gear. You can cast out give the rod one or two pumps and be fishing a lot faster then waiting for the line to run out of a levelwind reel. You can stop and cast without a gear change. Oh did I mention the LOW gearing of the High capacity reels? Definitely go with a high capacity reel for lead core. Leadcore is also metered with colors so a line counter is not necessary.

Get the Book "Spoonpluging" by Buck Perry.

It's all about repeatability. Sometimes it doesn't matter much and sometime if you aren't within 10 feet of a given about of line out you don't catch fish. That and I personally like the drag options better for the bait caster reels. But I usually troll baits rather than cast them. The spinning outfits get the nod when casting. If you check around there are several high speed level wind reels. But they tend to get spendy. I don't use line counters on my leadcore rigs but several guys do as they can be more precise in the amount of line let out and therefore the depth acheived.

[Borch]

where do u find those trolling chart books and whats an inexpensive decent counter reel?

Rapala has a dive chart that you can get a several retailers or from them directly. The Precision Trolling book is no longer in print and when you find them they are very pricey now.

[amateurfishing]

regarding the whuppin stick combo post i made, i was just throwing darts at the wall and asking if that would be a good cheap setup with line counter reel, if its not, thats cool.

does anyone have any recommendations or specs for rod or reel for using crankbaits? ...would it make a difference if casting or trolling them? i know nothing if u have not noticed. i dont expect u to tell me where the fish are (haha) but would like input or proper setups or technique if possible to put odds little better in my favor

[Borch]

Well there are personal preferences of different guys but here's what I like.

6'6"- 9' medium/medium light with a moderate to fast action. I like graphite rods for the feel so I can tell that lures are running clean. I also use 20-30 lb braid unless I'm trying to get deep then I set up a rod with 10 lb which also helps with the feel. I don't use a flouro leader on my flat line setups and use a lightweight crosslock snap. I have also starting using lighter colored rods that show up better in the moonlight or the boat light as I use a rod holder due to a beat up fore arm. Even then I pull the rod out of the holder to check that the lure is running clean every so often. Generally my trolling rods are pretty inexpensive $30-$50.

I use Daiwa sealine or accudepth line counter reels in the 17 or 27 size. I use 20-30 yards of mono on the spool first then the braid so the line doesn't slip on the spool. I usually pcik up used reels and then go through them to keep cost down.

I can usually put a nice set up for trolling together for $75-$105.

[Finlander]

I use white-out on my rod tips as they show up real nice anytime you're fishing! I also use 14lb. Fireline attached by a snap swivel to 10lb. Vanish for a leader!

[CaptainMusky]

Little tip on night trolling in rod holders. I taped LED flashlights right to the rod holder that point right down the length of the rod. Works perfect! Pushbutton flashlights with the button on the end of the light work great. I picked up 4 of them for like $12. They are only like 4 inches long.

[JohnMickish]

If you are looking for a cheap linecounter setup, it pretty tough to beat the Cabelas depthmaster combo. You can find this on sale for under $60 at times.

I personally don't like the Whumpin sticks. To soft for me.

Like Borch said, a linecounter is about repeatability when trolling.

[Mistermojo]

I can vouch for the repeatability of using a line counter after witnessing Northlander's fishing clinic at the ML trolling get together. I was outfished about 10:1, partly because I never knew where the bottom was until I felt it. He was able to let out the exact amount of line each time, then watch the screen and let out line when we went deeper and bring in line when we went shallow. I am putting a line counter rig on my Christmas list this year, as I am a firm believer in their effectiveness.

Borch was about 5:1 to me once he switched to leadcore and was able to maintain his depth consistency also. It's all about repeatability.

[Hoffer]

I am sure I might get some grief from this - but I think I can get within 10 to 20 feet of the same amount of line out each time just by looking at how much I have out on the spool. You can visually see the amount of metal showing on the spool and then let out line each time to duplicate that.

I know its not perfect but it works. It also allows me to use my good baitcasters for trolling which I am pretty sure work better than the line counter reels. So....with all that said, I truly may look into some good line counter reels over the Winter

[Mistermojo]

During the day that would work OK, but who fishes during the day?!?!?

[Comit 2]

Quote:

I can vouch for the repeatability of using a line counter after witnessing Northlander's fishing clinic at the ML trolling get together.

Sufix Metered Performance Braid. The best thing to happen to trolling since No-Bow trolling line.

http://www.rapala.com/Metered-Performance-Braid/Metered%20Performance%20Braid,default,pd.html?start=2&cgid=sufix-braid

Ok, In open water I see no need. Absolutely no need for line over 10lb test. Unless your are pretending to be a charter captain and refuse to stop the motor to fight the fish. Then you will need the low gearing to winch the fish in across the surface. Oh and plainer boards will need larger diameter lines so the clips won't slip.

When I started trolling back in 1973. The rod and reel combo to have was a 5'5" solid fiber glass rod with a Penn 109 (99 or sometime like that) reel with 10lb test No-Bow line that was metered every 30'. Yep the combo to have. THE ACTION OF THE TIP OF THE ROD will effect the action of the crankbait!

If I were you, I would become a student of the sport and start at the beginning and read spoonpluging by Buck Perry. He is the Granddaddy of structure fishing (and coined the term Structure fishing and others). It is hard to understand at first but in a year or two after you read it you will pick it up and WHAM "EUREKA" it will hit you. This time when he says "if you don't know the answer go back and read it again because your not paying attention" you'll just laugh and think how true. Winter is just about here so now is a good time to get the book. Lunkers love nightcrawlers by fishing facts is also a must read. Amazon has both. They are the books that set the coarse to modern day fishing. Must reads for any student of the sport!

[Northlander]

Hoffer that may work when only letting out up to about 90' of line but when your running 90' off 1 rod, 135' off another and 160' off a third its to much guess work with out a line counter.

[Borch]

I am sure I might get some grief from this - but I think I can get within 10 to 20 feet of the same amount of line out each time just by looking at how much I have out on the spool. You can visually see the amount of metal showing on the spool and then let out line each time to duplicate that.

I know its not perfect but it works. It also allows me to use my good baitcasters for trolling which I am pretty sure work better than the line counter reels. So....with all that said, I truly may look into some good line counter reels over the Winter

If you add a few bobber stops at various lengths it'll get you closer. I used to always have one at 100' and one at 150' for reference points.

The Daiwa sealines are good linecounter reels and if you spend $10 to upgrade the drag washer to carbon fiber they are hard to beat.

[Borch]

Comit 2,

Speed and depth control. Buck was way before his time and really had a great system. I cut my trolling teeth with all of his stuff and my dad went to one of his one the lake seminars. No Bow line is still available as are the spoon plugs last time I checked.