Did you know that according to DNR survey 75% of hunters oppose party hunting ban

[john skarie]

Party hunting is rooted in the tradition of hunting itself, more than any other aspect of hunting as we know it.

When hunting was actually a way of life, not an attmept to decorate your mancave, it was a shared experience among hunters to get food for families.

This idea that party hunting should be outlawed to save deer goes against the very roots of a tradition older than any of us.

If you don't like to party hunt, than don't.

JS

[fivebucks]

I would be one of the 75% voting to keep party hunting the way it is. We hunt in the north woods. Some years most people are seeing deer and other years it might be only 1 or 2 people in a 10 person party seeing deer. In 30+ years of hunting we have filled our tags only 1 time. Sure we've come close other years but there have been years where I shot the only 2 deer taken or one of my buddies did (OK more times it's been me .) Anyhow 2 deer split up among a group of guys much better than 1 deer. Yes party hunting will allow more deer to be shot but that is figured into the whole equation by the DNR as allowable harvest. It is not an exact science but it is based on estimates. Some periods of time will result in over harvest (whether there is party hunting or not) and the DNR will tweak things and other periods of time will result in underharvest. We just happen to be in a period now where we are coming off an over abundance of deer and too many deer have been harvested so the numbers are lower than we like. A couple of "Real" winters added to this also. The deer will rebound - they always do. We certainly wouldn't be getting our undies all in a bundle if the deer herd was at the levels of a few years ago. Everyone has just got to "Man Up" and realize that you are not going to shoot a deer every year and sometimes things in life aren't exactly the way you like it. We still have better whitetail hunting than Iran.

[Big Dave2]

I certainly do not agree with gixxer01 on this issue in fact I think he is quite off the mark but I do also find it ironic that so many are willing to hide behind "ethics" as being the reason they are opposed to baiting deer when in reality the reason they oppose deer baiting is the same reason that gixxer01 opposes party hunting.

It would appear safe to say that you are all for baiting and party hunting. Baiting gives a hunter an advantage which 90% opposed. 3 guns going after that last doe gives the hunters an advantage, but since its tradition is viewed as sporting or "ethical".

My talk meter can't take much more of this thread.

I could list 20 things that give the hunter an advantage but I doubt that you want to outlaw all of them.

[lakevet]

Lou C referenced one of the most basic of management principles in that article If you want more deer on your land, don't shoot as many as you can. It applies to both non-party hunters and those that do.

The controversial side to it is that the deer being cross tagged (more often than not in my experience with party hunts) tend to be the does. The same animals that control population from year to year. While the coveted buck tag is generally the last to go up for auction.

gixxer01,

First thanks for taking part in this discussion. Things often get heated when deer hunting is discussed.

One thing to consider is that according to Lou C and the dnr, the APR and cross tagging ban on bucks are being tried PRIMARILY to see if it can encourage hunters to shoot MORE does.

From the 2010 Hunting and Trapping Regulations Handbook p.78:

"For the past 5 years, DNR biologists have been evaluating nontraditional

regulations that are designed to primarily lower deer densities

but also, perhaps increase the proportion of mature bucks in the

population."

2010 MINNESOTA HUNTING REGULATIONS

page 76

Note again:

"For the past 5 years, DNR biologists have been evaluating nontraditional

regulations that are designed to primarily lower deer densities

but also, PERHAPS increase the proportion of mature bucks in the

population."

Designed to PRIMARILY LOWER DEER DENSITIES. And PERHAPS increase in proportion of mature bucks.

That is Lou's and the DNR's goal for SE MN and the PRIMARY reason put forth as justification for changing Minnesota's multigenerational hunting traditions.

Which Iowa and Wisconsin have maintained for those who choose to hunt that way, while still providing better hunting, according to those interested in type/number of bucks.

Party hunting, as was shown in the article quoted above, has NO SIGNIFICANT impact on buck population.

lakevet

[lakevet]

The angst comes from having to repeat myself. Ethics are debatable, I'm aware of that. Fewer deer being shot is only a small part of what I'm trying to convey. I can't help but think that too many people feel hunting is nothing without filling every tag possible. I wish people would realize that sharing tags solidifies the notion that everyone gets a deer no matter how lucky or skillful one is.

No one is ensured anything in this lifetime, a filled deer tag should be no different.

I find it ironic that on a seperate thread people are overwhelmingly unanimous on keeping the hunt sporting by saying no to baiting, but yet here its ok for some one to tag a deer they didn't even shoot.

I'm sure somebody will find one snipit of this they can argue.

This is just from my point of view and my family's "traditional way of hunting".

Go into the woods with gun, license, and most of the time other family members. Hunting via tracking, still hunting, making drives, and standing, depending on situation. No heated box stands, trail cameras with satellite uplink, food plots, etc. Hunt population of deer that have wolf pressure 24/7 for 365 days a year.......and have already survived archery and rifle season. No concentrated food sources such as corn fields. Can walk a mile or more with out seeing a single deer track if wolves have been working area hard. Oh and it's muzzleloading season so we can avoid dealing with the few but unfortunately too many hot heads that get irate about hunting their spot which they didn't get up early enough to get to that morning and where "their buck" that they have a picture of might go by.

Instead we CHOOSE to party hunt with muzzleloaders in a lower deer density/ lower hunter density season with traditional hunting methods that requires gun, license, warm wool clothes, compass, knife and knowledge/skills. To be honest we do use portable stands instead of the traditional built "out in the woods from native materials" stands. Went to portables over 20 years ago because too many people "scout " for hunting spots by just looking for stands, even when they were on private land. We have always used elevated stands for safety with drives so standers are shooting down into the ground instead of on the level with drivers. Over 100 years with no accidents.

We make drives as we have for over 100 years. The hunt is about the group hunting together. We do not "compete" with each other about who got the most/biggest. Meat is shared and every last morsel is used and enjoyed. Shooter gets the antlers. Some years everyone gets a deer to take home, most years we split up the deer we get. One year a person might shoot multiple deer then go 3 or 4 years with out getting one. We work to get the oldest and youngest the shooting opportunities, and those of us in between do the drives. Which are mostly in the nasty stuff the rest of the hunters would not touch.

And when I put my tag on another's deer I GIVE AWAY MY CHANCE TO SHOOT A DEER THAT YEAR WITH THAT TAG. I do it by choice, not law. It usually means that I cannot hunt by myself the rest of the season. However, to be honest, the DNR still has allowed an extra antlerless in our area so it means no solo buck hunting.

With at least 2 tags available in much of the state, party hunting is less of a factor in deer population control, and the DNR states it has no significant effect on buck population.

Our style of hunting often results in shooting deer cleanly and safely in dense cover. Deer may be as close as 10 feet, with clean view of chest, but head is behind a tree, balsam boughs, cedar branches, etc. Very safe clean shot, but to check if it is a buck because you shot one already, is not practical. Scope/binocs are useless. That deer is in full survival mode having been hunted by wolves, archery, and rifle hunters. It is december, cold, sound travels forever, you are in a portable stand, or on foot. If you think that deer is going to let you look at it's head to see if it was buck or doe and still give you a standing clean shot, you are a way better hunter than me. Now not all of the deer are that way, but it often is the case. And most of the deer we shoot are does. But it is hard to tell without looking at the head. This is not sitting over a farm field watching from a warm box through a scoped autoloading shotgun at deer in an open field on opening day of firearms season.

I am NOT being critical or passing judgement about the different hunts. I AM saying that buck cross tagging ban would have a significant impact on our way of hunting with little to no benefit to the buck age structure and other hunters.

You may disagree with our ethics, and I may not like another's technology filled style of hunting, but when not one but two neighboring states show that population composition and numbers can be achieved WITHOUT banning family traditions or your way of hunting, and no significant (by DNR's own admission) impact in buck structure can be achieved by banning our style, the cross tagging ban should be dropped when it comes for review.

We have the ability to allow a wide variety of hunting styles and still achieve variety of population goals. We hunters are being divided over what really is a non issue and an useless regulation.

And, gixxer01, I AGREE 100% with you that hunting is more, MUCH MORE than tag filling OR getting a big buck. These regulations just further elevate the effects that the perception that"producing" big bucks is the main function of a deer herd and should be the driving force that shapes deer hunting.

lakevet

[klecker]

Party hunting is rooted in the tradition of hunting itself, more than any other aspect of hunting as we know it.

When hunting was actually a way of life, not an attmept to decorate your mancave, it was a shared experience among hunters to get food for families.

This idea that party hunting should be outlawed to save deer goes against the very roots of a tradition older than any of us.

If you don't like to party hunt, than don't.

JS

Spot on!

[Eric Wettschreck]

I don't do this but......

I can sit in a tree, all alone, by myself, no one but me, shoot a deer, go get grandpa and his tag from the nursing home, tag it, and go shoot another one.

It's the same whether I'm alone or in a party, it's wrong and not legal.

I've been party hunting since I was a lad. It's a lot of fun and at the end of the hunt we really don't care who pulled the trigger. There have been years I shot 5 deer and years I never squeezed off a shot. We, in our party, don't care. If, on a buck, if you have a shot, take it. If it's an antlerless, and you have an antlerless tag, then shoot it. If you don't have an antlerss tag you watch it go by.

There will always be debate aboot "Meat hunters" and "Big antler hunters". Fine, but at the end of the day there's dead animals that really should end up, eventually, in the septic tank.

When the hunt is over we butcher deer in my garage. Then we all stand there and divie the stuff up according to who wants what. It works well for us and no one shot a deer for grandpa.

[Spike76]

As long as you can choose to party hunt or not, It's fine with me. If it would become against the regulations then you would here from many more people. There shouldn't be antler restrictions in Minnesota anywhere. To help a few get bigger deer at the expence of other hunters is wrong. Hunt harder and you will see bigger deer. Don't let special interest groups make regulations for a few, because they don't think every deer is a trophy. They're doing it with slot limits for northerns also, and it is wrong. Every northern is a trophy and the frying pan will prove it. Statewide regulations are equal for all.