Excessive scratching/chewing

[ducker]

My lab is chewing and scratching pretty much all over her body. I have taken her to the vet numerous times. I have changed dog foods twice, once was the $75 per bag food from the vet, given her prednizone(sp), thyroid medication, benadryl, bathed her with medicated shampoo the vet sold me, washed the dog bed in different soaps, given her fish oil pills and the list goes on. She does not seem to be responding to anything. She is 7 years old and has never had issues before. She does seem to have an excessive amount of dandruff. She is starting to look like a patchwork dog. Any more suggestions would be appreciated.

[TylerS]

Labs are naturally oily, correct? Maybe the excessive washing has cleared up too much of that oil to the point that your dog's skin has become very dry.

[ducker]

Thought about that but the shampoo is kind of like Head and Shoulders. It is suppose to help the dry flaking.

[Friar_Tuck]

put your dog on a RAW diet, google it. there is nothing better than raw. a lot of allergy type & other conditions have been corrected by a raw diet. the worse case scenario with feeding raw is that you have a healthier dog all the way around

[ducker]

I'm going to give it a try Friar T. Do you feed your dogs this way? Next question, do you go to a butcher shop to get your meat?

[cavalierowner]

Before you switch to a raw diet, be sure to do a lot of reading. Feeding raw can resolve a LOT of issues, probably the one you are having, but you have to know what you're doing to be sure your dog is getting the proper nutrients. Or you may create a whole new set of problems. It's not as easy as it may sound.

[ducker]

Do you think I should be look at feeding supplements/vitamins also cavalier?

[cavalierowner]

The short answer is yes. But I can't tell you much more than that because we don't feed any of our dogs raw. A few of our past puppy people feed raw and they talk about how important proper nutrients are; my wife has been to a couple seminars and it was all about proper nutrients too. I'll e-mail a couple of them and see if they can get you a link and get you pointed in the right direction for some good information.

[Friar_Tuck]

I don't have a dog (passed) at the moment but when i did, i'd get meat from whatever source/all sources/on sale etc...friends of mine would get fresh road kill deer as well and chop them up in 1 pound bags & freeze it. summer time whole frozen fish on hot days was a nice treat.

but as stated above by cavalier, read up on recipes so your giving them a balanced diet.

don't cook the meat either just raw. sometimes people forget that canines are carnivores and thats the appropriate diet in conjunction with other foods to balance things out.

its very noticeable the difference a raw diet makes. also less dog doo since they absorb much more of it.

theres so much information out there & recipies(which i'm sure your starting to see). just do your homework and look forward to having a much healthier dog.

[CigarGuy]

Google BARF diet. We did this with our yellow lab. Hair grew back and itching stopped. My wife was mostly incharge of this, so I don't remember too much. I remember that I cringed every time she fed the dog raw chicken - bones and all!

[cavalierowner]

Have you already tried changing foods to try different proteins, grain-free, etc.? I have received one response on raw so far:

Have him go to dr. Karen becker, this is how my vet recommends we feed. They can also google lew Olson . My vet strongly recommends adding 20% purred fruits and veggies. A great local resource is golden acres healthy pets in Princeton .

[Gordie]

Do you guys think this will help with a shedding problem as well?

My two labs have the same simalar symtoms as ducker. jsut thought it was he dry winter air in the house and it may be that but I will have to look into thisfaw and barf diet for them also.

[cavalierowner]

Here is another response from a long-time feeder of raw:

both my dogs are on pure raw. I do not ground up the veggies, and they do need more fruits into their diets. i switch between beef and turkey so they do not get used to the meat and get allergies. i also give them natural pig ears from the butcher to help with the oils in their skin and rawhides/bones with marrow in it to help with the nurtrition. The fruits is the one thing i have not been good at yet. I also find that with the raw no more stinky[PoorWordUsage], less allergies silky coat and skin. With Callie having dry eyes. i add a vitamin A to her meal, she also gets a vitamin E for her nose and a brewsters tablet to help with the skin. Sorry i can't think of the Brewsters vit name. but that is all i do and my vet has said i am doing awesome with them. so guess i am doing well

I will add that many times just changing to a high quality food will resolve a lot of issues. We tell our puppy people that if you can find a food in the grocery store, it's not a high quality food. You have to find a pet supply store. And that Science Diet stuff the vets want to push, except short term for a specific problem, is NOT a quality food. Several years ago we convinced our vet to actually do some research on food nutrition; she no longer carries SD except for short term problems.

If you can find the annual copy of the Whole Dog Journal where they do their list of quality foods, pick a food from there. Thier list is based on experts in dog nutrition and they do not accept advertising, so they are not swayed by anyone.

[Friar_Tuck]

Google BARF diet. We did this with our yellow lab. Hair grew back and itching stopped. My wife was mostly incharge of this, so I don't remember too much. I remember that I cringed every time she fed the dog raw chicken - bones and all!

bones are just fine and really good for them as long as they aren't cooked. never cooked chicken bones. dogs have natural meat & bone grinders attached to their necks

don't over complicate the raw diet. just do a little homework, look at the recipes & get on with feeding your dog. people like to over complicate things.

there is no better substitute than feeding raw with the other added items to balance it out.

its still better & cheaper than any high end dry stuff. once you get good sources for scraps, organ meat, or by yourself. plenty of squirrels, rabbits, fish and if you can get a tag for road kill deer etc...

i had working dogs, trained k9 protection animals is what i kept. they were always healthy & fit as hell. only had to take them to the vet for normal shots, thats it...

[LABS4ME]

Raw chicken bones don't pose the health issue that cooked chicken bones do. After cooking they become brittle and splinter when the dog eats them... raw they remain soft and pliable.

I read something in line with wild carnivores get a lot of their nutrients from eating the intestines and stomachs of herbivores... that is one of the reasons the paunch goes quickly at the kill site. Their bodies are asking for the nutrients given off by the plant life in the digestive tract of the animals they are consuming.

i know some people who do the raw diet. They spend a Saturday afternoon once a month or so making up daily rations to freeze... I will say their dogs are in great shape! They have many show titles on these dogs and they are physical specimens...

Good Luck!

Ken

[ducker]

Thanks for the responses guys. I started this morning with chicken breast with the rib cage. She ate it with no problems and seemed satisfied. My lab is 80# so she is suppose to get about 1.6# per day. I contacted a local turkey processing plant to see if I can buy necks, gizzards, hearts, livers in bulk. Haven't heard back yet. I will be contacting butcher shops in the area about getting scraps, bones, heart, liver, tripe (cleaned cattle intestines) etc. I'm a little concerned next fall she is going to find the ducks and pheasants I shoot to be tasty snacks.

[ducker]

I hit he jackpot for meat/bones. I went to a local butcher and for $10 got about 20# of rib bones and 30# of heart/liver/tongue. Stopped by the local grocer and for $20 got at least 60# if not more of steaks, roasts, chicken, pork, hamburger that had just gone past the expiration date. Dog's going to be eating way better than me.

[ducker]

I had my lab on the RAW diet for 5 days. I did not see an improvement in here scratching and chewing. She had extremely loose stools and some bloody stools. I brought her to a different vet and got her on more prednisone and antibiotics and am continuing her thyroid meds. I am putting her back on the Lamb and Rice Diamond dry food. The vet didn't think it was a food allergy. We'll see

[flyfisher03]

We had a mutt (either jack russell or rat terrier mix) from an animal shelter and he would chew raw patches on his legs also. He also had a constricted esophagus so we had to be careful of what we fed him. If I remember right he just plain got bored or nervous and started chewing on himself. So we gave him some chew toys and left a radio or tv on for him. It helped him out. So it may not even be a diet issue.

[chris63]

My wife has the same problem..........I just rub hot sauce on her every couple of days and she doesn't seem to chew and scratch as much.c63

[nofishfisherman]

Usually when you change a dogs food you want to do it slowly over time, say 2 weeks or so. They get use to eating the same kind of kibble day after day so a quick and dramatic change can really mess with their stomach, probably even more so going from kibble to an all raw diet. Thats a pretty big change and its very possible thats what caused the stomach issues you are seeing.

Sounds like if you saw no improvement despite trying several different types of kibble as well as the raw food I'd bet it wasn't a food allergy as well. Unless you can maybe pinpoint 1 ingredient that was common amoung all the options you tried.

It could be an allergy to something else in the environment. Has anything changed around the house that might correspond to when the issue started? Try to think back to when it started and see if you can come up with anything that might have changed. Did you start washing the dog bed with anything? Did you start washing the dog with a new soap? Did something change outside? Did you start sparying the house with some sort of air freshner? I don't know what it could be, just throwing out ideas regardless of how crazy they might be.

If its scratching I kind of doubt its from boredom. Usually with boredom you see excessive chewing and licking. But I guess you can't rule anything out. If you are playing with the dog or working with him does he stop to scratch during play time or is it only when he's left alone or when you're not giving him attention?

Hopefully you can get things figured out. This kind of stuff can be the trickiest to figure out since it can be so many different things. Good luck and keep us posted.

[cavalierowner]

If you have had your dog to your vet numerous times and the problem is still not fixed, it's time for a different vet. When we have a problem that our vet can't fix, we go to the U of M vet clinic in St. Paul. They have specialists in every area veterinary medicine, including dermatologists. The general number for the clinic is 612-626-8387. We also use the U as our emergency vet after a couple problems with the other emergency vets.

Sorry I didn't mention it, but any food change should be very gradual over a period of a couple weeks or so. If the U thinks it's food related, they will give you instructions on how to make a change.

[ducker]

I forgot to mention she does have some red pimply spots in the areas she can not reach to chew on or scratch. We did do a test for mites, fleas, etc and that is also not the issue. The vet said she smelled "yeasty" Ears were good

[nofishfisherman]

Thats a good point about changing vets. Sometimes a change of perspective is needed. Even a very good vet could overlook something that might stand right out to another vet.

Going to the U of M is also a good idea. They are the best of the best in the area and should be able to get to the bottom of it.

I had my dog there only once (thankfully) for their after hours emergency care. My vizsla decided to eat a hibiscus plant (did you know they are toxic?) that was covered in bees. Not only did he suffer from the toxic plant but he was stung multiple times in the mouth and face by the bees that didn't like that he was eathing their flowers.

I'm not sure what a regular appointment/test would run you but for my emergecny trip at midnight on a sunday night it ran me $200-300 if I remember right, maybe a little less. Althought its probably going to be money well spent since its got to be hard to see your dog so miserable.

[ducker]

I went to a different vet for a second opinion. We can't think of anything we changed in her environment. We did try a different soap for washing of bedding and that didn't change anything. Should try the dermatologist but was hoping for improvement without the additional time and investment. Maybe the stronger antibiotics will take care of the problem.