Do farming practices have an impact?

[Tom7227]

I started wondering whether there was a difference in the way fields are dealt with in the fall between MN and the Dakota's. I think it's pretty clear that the flyway has moved west. I'm sure there are all sorts of reasons for this. But maybe there's something about how crops are harvested and the fields dealt with afterwards. Zero tilling vs plowing, using gleaners, whatever. I don't know beans about farming and so I may be barking up a tree here.

What do you think? I would be interested in hearing from folks who actually farm explain what differences if any might contribute to the change in the flyway.

Thanks for your time.

Tom

[Maxxed Out]

i don't think it has much to do with farming practices. The Dakotas are paradise for ducks and geese. Abundance of water, plenty of food and no people.

[creepworm]

I agree with Maxxed out guide, except I do think think that there being more small grain in the rotations does help. DU has been doing some research and winter wheat is about as good as it gets as far as nesting success. Maybe the light to no-till practices leave some more food for them but I do not believe that is a big difference. The big difference is the overall habitat. Dakotas have it, MN does not.

[MJ1657]

I would agree with Maxxed Out.

I have driven across the Dakotas several times in the last two years and the amount of water they have is mind boggling.

Tillage practices have not drastically changed in the last few years. There are people that have switched to no or minimum tillage but that was going on many years before the flyway changed.

[Scott M]

I guess that depends if you are a lumper or a sorter. I'm a lumper. I will lump the draining of wetlands into farming practices although by and large it was federally and state driven, subsidized and in some cases mandated, and not directly any fault of the farmer (Playing the blame game this late is pointless). Cripes, at one time tile and open-ditch drainage were considered conservation practices!

In the Dakotas, soil types, little overland relief, and conservation practices often leave harvested crop fields unfurrowed over the winter and are planted into the following spring. So while combines are more efficient than ever, the fact that the fields aren't black 2 days after harvest attracts more ducks. And those same soil and geological characteristics bring about more of a diversity of commodities. You don't see durham wheat, barley, oats, sunflower seeds, milo, etc. in Minnesota anymore. It's corn, soybeans, and little else. USDA crop reports bear that out. Small grains are hugely important to waterfowl and upland game birds.

Overall all you need to know about ducks sticking to flyways is to take a look at an aerial photo. Start counting potholes. A good friend of mine now retired from 30+ years as a MN Soil and Water Service Technican insists that land was so cheap in the Dakotas that there didn't seem to be a demand for all the draining...everyone just farmed around the wet spots. The idea of paying to put in tile or hire a dragline was unheard of. Here in Minnesota, it's just how it is. Rich soil, ideal for corn and soybeans.

One topic I would like to crack is ditch law and wetlands policy. There is nothing in any state that I know of involving laws restricting tiles. However, ditch law is supposed to be vastly different from state to state. Minnesota has a no net loss wetland law, I'm not sure if either of the Dakotas has the same law. I would like to get to the bottom of it in the Dakotas. I've started to scratch the surface by reaching out to a UND professor that chairs a couple wetland policy groups. He's a former Minnesotan and an avid outdoorsman and I'm hoping he'll help bring a layperson up to speed. You ever look around in the Dakotas? I don't see anywhere near as many ditches, and when water slows down and is held, and doesn't run off too quick and bring with it chemicals, you have vibrant and diverse wetlands full of plants and inverts that ducks love.

Ditch and wetland law is the scary thing potentially about the Dakotas (well, that and the slow death of CRP). Full disclosure I grew up on a farm, and my parents still farm. My dad was griping about not being able to get some tile to put in on a 40 he wanted to "improve." He talked to the tile distributor in Redwood Falls, and he said all the tile that can be produced was going to South Dakota in droves...they are just buying it up right and left. That's a scary proposition if it is true. You can't deny that tiling and improved drainage picks up yields and makes land more profitable, it just comes at a cost to ecosystem services, wildlife, water quality, etc. If wetlands get lost and land drains at MN rates, the Dakotas will become flyby country just like Minnesota.

Overall if you are implying or asking if farming practices have rearranged the flyway, I didn't really answer your question I just explained why the Dakotas are currently more attractive to ducks. To answer the question, I would say in a roundabout way yes. But I and others would argue that wet cycles may have more to do with actual flyway shifts (although many waterfowl biologists look closely at food sources!)

[creepworm]

Dachise, sadly what the you were told about the tile heading to the Dakota's is true. It makes me sick to drive around eastern SD. It seems like one of every 20 fields has or has had an excavator come in and rip out trees, fencelines, and dig out natural waterways. After that is done, in comes the tile plow. It may seem counterintuitive to the duck population, but I am praying we do not see a drop of rain or snow until August.

[cbrooks]

Lots of trenching in North Dakota as well. Chise also brought up a good point about the "slow death of CRP land".

[carpshooterdeluxe]

To an extent, in prairie canada and much of north dakota and central/western south dakota, farming practices are different. Less corn/beans, more small grains. Eastern dakotas are very similar to western MN. Even the ducks and geese that are hatched out in minnesota prefer the dakotas, as banding studies and banded bird harvests have shown year after year there is a westward migration from MN into SE ND or eastern SD. I attribute this to healthier sloughs. As soon as the young ducks are old enough to fly, the mama leads them to "greener pastures". Young ducks cannot digest corn early in their lives. They need sago, scuds, shrimp, etc.

[Gordie]

They need sago, scuds, shrimp, etc.

Its not just water they need its food almost every pond lake I have been on in NoDak has shrimp we got 10,000 plus lakes and the shrimp are almost gone.

We have ducks just not the numbers like everywhere else because we dont have the food to support the numbers and they know it the ducks that is

[smnduck]

Plowing Practices

Tiling Practices

Ditching Practices

Crops Planted

Nesting Cover

Soil Types --The Dakotas have alkali\saline soil wich seems to make a more productive wetland until it is full of water too long.

So yes pratices do impact the ecosystem. Some for a plus most for a negative. The key is to find a balance.

[Roosterslayer05]

Besides the wetland quality/number of wetlands a HUGE problem we have in MN is duck disturbance. Ducks need a safe place to rest. MN has allot of hunters and even more anglers. Every major roost gets busted unless its a refuge. When birds get disturbed they leave. Carpshooter brings up a good point about banding data but I think the timing of the migration from MN to the dakota's is off. I believe many of our local ducks migrate to the dakota'a after our duck season opens. The pressure is too intense here with the limited habitat so they head to the dakota's because they can rest there. The DNR witnessed a good example of duck disturbance this year. A pair of boats drove through the voluntary rest area on lake onalaska on the mississippi in SE MN and flushed a massive flock of waterfowl. The DNR tracked this huge flock via radar. They got up and flew 60 miles south. These birds dident even get shot at! Another good example is Pelican lake in wright county. I used to shoot allot of ducks out there until people found out theres good fishing in that lake. The duck hunting declined drastically at the same time the fishing pressure went through the roof. My buddies that hunt the lake say the same thing. You cant even bag a bird out there anymore. The birds cannot rest out there with that many boats on the lake all year.

[carpshooterdeluxe]

Good point on the resting and disturbance caused by fishing/cruising. Don't see it much where I grew up in western MN but I know it's an issue in the central part of the state.

[jmd1]

Da Chise, everything you posted is correct, not only in the midwest but nation wide. simply put, if i had a 100 acres 75 usable and 25 in CRP, with corn at 6 bucks a bushel you can bet i am going to find a way to put tile in and dry it up. Is that right, heck no, but after how many years of less than 1.50 a bushel corn why should i not free up more to plant? With early harvest, more folks are able to do fall field work which in some case will disturb the seed that might have been left over after harvest. How about Bt corn and beans and how it affects the way these birds are nesting? One can blame the draining of the wetlands however i do think that more issues are playing into this than just running ditches of water.

[Musky Buck]

In my county when the beaver got cleaned out so went the wood ducks, I know there's mega other factors but in my county that's 1 of them and like many have stated those were quiet resting places unbothered. Not sure but irrigation on every field now, trimming back as far as possible the sloughs, each lake is ringed now with lakeshore properties, lakes I hunted that had 3 cabins now have 300 and they're destroying the vegetation, they all want a sandy beach and paying high dollar they feel they deserve it. We have a ton of predators, hang on, so do the dakota's but they have to work harder out there to find these nests, here there isn't a great deal of prime nesting cover for the predators to sift through, on our farm growing up cats used to be a big culprit at destroying nests, we have tens of thousands of feral cats, we're 5 million people strong, I doubt in ND they have a 10th the cat problem we have here. Tons of factors like mentioned above and tons of small factors some listed here = you know the answer.

[Musky Buck]

1 thing also is fields, we're pretty much talking the mallard and after chopped corn the wood duck, there not the only duck(s) taking a hit in MN, bluebills, divers etc. aren't fairing any or much better. Check this out, when I grew up teal were to the MN mallard hunter what the shoveler is to the ND mallard hunter.

[brittman]

Huge difference in agricultural practices and yes these impact how birds stage especially mallards and some geese earlier in the season.

More wetlands and less drain tile in ND. More wetlands that are not along a road in ND, but you will notice that more and more wetlands are along roads because the center of the field is drained outwards.

More small grains and even dry peas, beans, and lentles as you move further west and north. The corn and bean belt has steadily worked its way deeper into ND, more drain tile, less CRP, less ducks until later in the season.

[strait-meat]

Farmers are in the business to make a profit and not in the business to make a mecca for the outdoor sportsman to enjoy. If you want a mecca then I suggest you and your friends gather up a bunch a money and buy up a few sections of land and do with it as you please. Now I am not saying don't be a good steward of the land b/c I think that is important. However, one can be responsible about it without involving the gov't to create new rules. We already have enough regulations in every sector. The gov't doesn't need to be involved in everything. Less is more in my book. For example, CRP is great for wildlife but personally I see no business for the gov't to be handing out these subsidies to farmers or any other organizations--waste of money and this is not the reason for gov't to exist. It is just another way to get more people feeding from the gov't trough and to continue this "I'm entitled to this" mentality. But as Carpshooter said earlier, Western MN and Eastern SD is similar in soil and moisture conditions resulting in similar farming practices. The further West you move from there, the more the soil lightens up and the less moisture there is. This is one of the reason you see some of the other crops being planted, they can handle these conditions better.

[brittman]

CRP is just a small part of the Ag Bill which is riddled with subsidies for nearly all growers including sugar and cotton.

I would argue most small towns believe they benefit more with less CRP. More farmers and more people doing business (implement, fertilizer, elevator, tires, etc.) More people are hired as general helpers on the farms too.

When a farmer drains a wetland and tiles his land and the water runs down and floods his neighbor is he not liable for his actions ?

[strait-meat]

When a farmer drains a wetland and tiles his land and the water runs down and floods his neighbor is he not liable for his actions ?

Every situation is different but of course if something is done on your land and effects the value of someone else land in a negative way, one could be liable for their actions--but determining the effect can be quite subjective. But remember, water takes the path of least resistance, you can't lay tile and make it go up hill. Someone will always be at a higher grade and a lower grade than you.

[Tom7227]

Back to the subject I posted.

The one thing that has popped up that seems to get little mention is the impact activity has on waterfowl. It seems that if 5 guys pe on a spot it suddenly becomes a lake and people build cabins on it and put out all sorts of watercraft. That has to have an impact on the critters from nearly ice out to freeze up. I doubt that happens as much in the Dakotas as it does in MN, if for no other reasons than density of population and the fact that a lot of the water out there isn't deep enough to sustain boat traffic.

Maybe there is also something to the idea that more people are fishing later into the season. You can hardly turn a page from September on in any outdoor magazine without reading that the best fishing is in the fall when the fish are trying to bulk up. Fellegy pooh poohs the idea but he seems to be in the minority.

[Musky Buck]

The thing I wonder about is food, all of our water can't be so poor or why do they nest here, I think the water(s) are lacking food because in August and September the mallards and woodies aren't hitting the fields really yet, I think the waters aren't producing duck like foods like they once did, water for them to rest in and drink, but not much food in there for them. So they move on with numerous other factors as to why. If a guy baited a pond nicely would it hold birds ? If so, then the lack of a pond creating especially that celery stuff is obsolete.

[brittman]

The mallards in prairie Canaada and the Dakotas are hitting the barley and other small grain fields in August and September big time. These are mostly the drakes and hens that lost their nests.

Ducks nest in MN for a variety of reasons. Some species the hens home to the place where they hatched. Spring in MN usually means puddles, ditches and Type 1 wetlands with shallow water. These often dry through the course of the summer leaving mostly deeper, minnow infested ponds for the ducks to try feed in.

[Sportland_Bait]

I think there are a multitude of factors that seperate MN and the dakotas. Farming is number one with a bullet. It is pretty tough for migrating birds to make the flight through an area of black dirt from ditch to ditch. Another difference is the impact housing development has had in MN. Every pothole has someone wanting to build a house on it. They call it lakeshore. I would be curious of brood sizes too. I know there is a difference for pheasants as you head from MN west.

Jason Erlandson

[Todd Caswell]

Quote:

Every pothole has someone wanting to build a house on it. They call it lakeshore

And when they build that house they feel the need to have a manacured lawn all the way to the waters edge, all natural veg. is eliminated. Fines are a slap on the hand. I worked on three different lake homes last year where the owner rented a bobcat, and cleared the shoreline ( they would have never got a permit to do it). The fines ranged from 2500 to 5000 but there property value went up more than three times the amount of the fine.

Bottom line in our area the birds have very little room to nest and absolutly no room to roast. We used to have a pretty good diver flight in late OCT early Nov. not anymore, we are open water fishing later in the fall than ever, boats have gotten bigger, more comfortable to be out there befor ice up and what few birds we do have get run off of the big water by fisherman befor they have a chance to raft and build up..

[Scott M]

And when they build that house they feel the need to have a manacured lawn all the way to the waters edge, all natural veg. is eliminated. Fines are a slap on the hand. I worked on three different lake homes last year where the owner rented a bobcat, and cleared the shoreline ( they would have never got a permit to do it). The fines ranged from 2500 to 5000 but there property value went up more than three times the amount of the fine.

Todd, I would consider turning those in to DNR Enforcement. Local conservation officers enforce some wetland violations (while county zoning deals with others - Crow Wing county is notoriously bad), and while I agree fines are a slap on the wrist and are considered "the cost of doing business" these days, DNR Enforcement or Fisheries and Wildlife can call for full restoration orders - in some cases that restoration can be tens of thousands of dollars. With all the parcel data and aerial photos, it's pretty easy to document aquatic plant management violations, but a big part of the problem is a lack of enforcement - there just aren't enough eyes out there. I'm sure your local C.O., Tim Collette or Randy Posner would love to hear from you.

The Twin Cities and Twin Cities Junior (Brainerd and Baxter) are ground zero for destroyed shorelines. And Todd and others are right about what the future holds. Old duck sloughs, not what any normal person would call a "lake", are the next target for developers. Everyone wants that lake experience, even if its a pea green marsh. Developers know that true lakes are mostly spoken for, so they are moving to second and third tier type waterbodies. Take a look at some of the lake homes in southern Minnesota...we need better protection - more lakes designated as "natural environment" to keep houses and Kentucky blue grass sod laid over 250' of shoreline and up to the huge impervious McMansion away.