Setter up for early retirment

[JMO555555]

This is a good problem to have but need some other opionions. I have a five year old setter that has been hunting grouse with me for five years and she has been a very good dog. this winter I got a new pup and he has taken over he might be the best dog I have ever hunted behind he has pointed the last 17 birds not bumping one. he just figured it out and i really just want to hunt with him but dont have the heart to sit the old girl out. He is a berg bro setter and almost ten months old and has prob over forty points on ruffies. the older dog has to be wowed or else will try to creep in front of my younger dog whereas the pup has no problem backing her as well as some of my other buddies dogs.

[hotdog]

I think if older dog keeps pressuring your younger dog it could have detrimental effect on your pup. It is phenominal to here such young dog be so succsessful at that age.It is not uncommon for first year dogs to not get birds pointed.Did you teach your dog to back at this young age,if so how did you do it.

[Setterman]

Which breeding?

[JMO555555]

The backing just came natural I had nothing to do with it. The Dam is berg brothers sidney. and the SIRe is Berg brother high roller.

[Todd Caswell]

I don't know alot about pointers but I really don't understand your question..

Heres my take on the situation, 5 year old that is a good dog but not a great dog, and a pup that appears to be the real deal.

Either sell the 5 year old to someone that will give him the work, or spend sometime polishing him up and hunt them seperatly.

If there trial dogs then the answer is simple, but if there meat/gun dogs then they really don't need to be perfect..

[gspman]

Quote:

the older dog has to be wowed or else will try to creep in front of my younger dog

I think you mean "whoa'ed". Your older setter needs a refresher course on backing. The other thing you can do is hunt them in shifts one at a time. It'll reduce wear and tear on both dogs in the long run and they'll be fresher each time they get out of the dog box. If your older dog is a "very good" dog as you say then you should be hunting it or selling it to another hunter. I certainly wouldn't retire a quality dog at 5 years old. Define "very good".

[Setterman]

It is nice to hunt in braces to cover more ground. The creeping with the old dog could possibly turn into a competition with the young dog. Then you have two dogs creeping and two to fix.I would hunt them individually or I would have Ben take the 5 year old and work on backing. Even if you are not field trialing if his creeping gets worse now you have birds getting crowded and bumped.

[Snag]

The nice thing about having two dogs is if one gets injured. Otherwise, it's hard to choose, since you always want to get the young dog experience, but feel you are leaving the older dog behind.

Taking turns and always having a fresh dog is nice.

[hotdog]

I find it remarkable that such a young dog is pointing so many Grouse.what do other young dogs get accomplished their first year? I would like to hear what other hunters have expierenced?

[rundrave]

It is phenominal to here such young dog be so succsessful at that age.It is not uncommon for first year dogs to not get birds pointed.Did you teach your dog to back at this young age,if so how did you do it.

[hotdog]

Rundrave I noticed your from South Dakota.What sort of birds did your young dogs point?

[CaptainMusky]

I find it remarkable that such a young dog is pointing so many Grouse.what do other young dogs get accomplished their first year? I would like to hear what other hunters have expierenced?

Pointing isnt really that remarkable at a young age, but backing, etc is one of those things that usually come with time.

The dog I have now was 5 months old when opening day of pheasant season came around his first year. I spent a fair amount of time with him, but not much since I only had him a couple weeks before season started.

On opening day, first field we had 26 birds pointed. He pointed all but 3 of them. I was astounded considering the circumstances. My buddies dog who he spent thousands and thousands of dollars getting trained and was 4 years old pointed the other 3.

With the way the bird population is this year I hope I get 26 points in the entire season!!!

[rundrave]

Rundrave I noticed your from South Dakota.What sort of birds did your young dogs point?

Pheasant, grouse, chukar, quail, pigeons, ducks and probably some others I am forgetting.

Keep in mind the only wild birds were mostly Pheasant and Grouse. Most of the others were not wild but used in my personal training or were used in hunt tests. For example the ducks were bought and used for tracking etc.

[Setterman]

To get that many Ruffed grouse handled at that age is AWESOME! They do not handle the same as pheasants, sharpies, chukar etc. I read a article where Jerry Kolter was interviewed, and he stated it takes 4 years to make a good grouse dog. I think his dog is well on its way!

[JMO555555]

thanks for all the opionions I think the check cord and bird launcher are coming out this weekend. I was kidding about getting rid of her I just need to fix the problem. And to answer the question about her being "Very Good" she can consistantly point grouse. And had no trouble with pheasants I would say she would point and hold 4 out of six grouse I would come in contact with and to me that is very good. thanks agian guys and good luck this fall.

[setterguy]

RE: Hotdog - Every dog is different, ecspecially when you are talking about ruffed grouse. They are a whole different animal and hanlde differently than any other upland bird I have encountered. My female pointed the first grouse she ever came in contact with, backed and retrieved naturally and I can't remember her ever taking out a bird on purpose. My buddy has a dog that bumped every grouse he saw for two years but is now a GREAT grouse dog.

My son plays hockey, I guess they are kind of similar. Some kids can do it all right away, and then some kids who can barely stand for two years turn into some of best players when they get older.

As far as the original post goes, the pup may just have a better nose than the 5 year old, and not like the fact that she can't find the bird first. Obedience training, whoa, backing are in order if you do want to hunt them together.