Minnesota ties for Second most B & C Bucks produced in 2010!!!!!!!!!

[fr0sty]

I should have added this extra detail. The two deer started out life in the same timber country enclosure. Deer 1 was basket 8 as a yearling and scored 140 at age 4.5

The spike deer was transferred to a farm country enclosure at 3.5 years of age and scored 165 at 4.5 years old.

It makes a good case for managing herd numbers below carrying capacity, providing ample nutrition and letting young bucks walk.

[HunterLee]

Exactly that is why they need to get to or at least close to maturity.

BobT- your "great" deer management is and will be coming to an end. The managing for numbers isn't that great. This year my zone which has been mostly 5 deer until last year which was 2, is now one.

Yeah for the last few years there has been plenty of deer shot, but now that they went crazy there are hardly any. I am however glad they went to a one deer either or tag, which HOPEFULLY the meat hunters will shoot the doe instead of the fork buck chasing her.

There are way to many things that can and go wrong with the DNR's idea.

Without any way of limiting hunters in each zone they can't limit the number how many are taken.

This year the the DNR won't sell nearly as many tags strictly because they are more reactive than proactive. They go for the shoot everything until they are wacked back and then its a few years of lottery which just puts more pressure on the young bucks. Its a lose lose for meat and trophy hunters.

When there were 2 or more tags for hunters they would buy the license to go, weather for that extra doe or just to help another person.

I do know the DNR won't get my extra money for my rifle tag this year, as I have choose to go to Nebraska and rifle hunt. If i can't score a good buck witch at this time is looking gloom as with all the scouting and field checking i have done I will shoot a doe to be done with it and move on to trapping.

Also I have no problem with fewer deer, it just weeds out the people who don't enjoy the hunt, the only reason for the high hunter numbers in the recent years was due to the sheer number of deer, why not hunt if its going to be easy.

Also I highly doubt people will complain of more nice deer shot. A nice deer is a nice deer. Yeah people will maybe get a tad more picky, but it would be more enjoyable to go out and see some 130-140 in bucks and wait for a 150. But as of right now most people sit and watch does and spikes all night while waiting for a decent buck. I don't mind hunting for a big buck but if there isn't one why bother?

[slimngrizzly]

A high population doesn't mean a good management plan.

I dont think big bucks will ever be easy or "the norm". Id just like to think a few exsist. The county where I live has maybe registered a couple book deer in the past decade.... some of you may think that its because people aren't hunting hard enough or smart enough. Its because they dont exsist! We have a management plan that allows maybe 1 in 100's to age to maturity, maybe 1 in thousands to get "old"..... thats not good.

[nonteepical]

an over abundance of tags, means an over abundance of deer, wich means: poor deer management. the plans not working.

[Bear55]

I'm not even sure there is a plan.

[BobT]

an over abundance of tags, means an over abundance of deer, wich means: poor deer management. the plans not working.

All depends on the answer to this question. What is the plan?

[nonteepical]

their plan is population management only. a boatload of antlerless tags means the population (management plan) got out of control and they need to go to extreme measures to get it back in check, with "intensive harvest" tags, when the population is at or below capacity it's bucks only tags.

[Bear55]

The only plan I have seen is to overreact when the first plan doesn't work. In my area at least they passed out tags like crazy for many years. By the time they figured out there were no deer around it was too late and now we are on our 3rd year of 100 doe permits for approx 6000 hunters. Before they went tag crazy we were still a lotto area but we would noramlly see 1000-1500 doe permits annually at least 10-12 years running. There may have been one semi-bad winter in there but there was just too many tags given out, so they either didn't know what they were doing or all the extra $$$ those bonus tags clouded their judgement.

[HunterLee]

Exactly- its kinda an all or nothing thing. The problem is that have no idea and can't control the numbers of deer shot the way they manage or try to manage them.

How hard is it to limit the number of people in a zone and how many does need to be shot, while limiting the number of bucks shot. We need a more balanced herd, even when there was alot of deer there were still few bucks.

Go anywhere out of state and they manage their deer for numbers to, but they limit bucks so they have a better buck to doe ratio. Not the 50-1 like most of minnesota.

[B. Amish]

you just can't blame the dnr all day everyday when they aren't the ones pulling the trigger.

[fr0sty]

I was going to post the exact thing. Hunters need to play an informed role also when killing deer. Just because we were able to shoot an entire truck load of does doesn't mean we did.

I know there are hunters who will take as many as possible. That is their rightful choice. It's easy for me to see how difficult the dnr's job is to manage deer numbers when they never know until after the fact just how many antlerless deer will be killed in any given region.

you just can't blame the dnr all day everyday when they aren't the ones pulling the trigger.

[mrklean]

easier to blame the man then ourselves

[Bear55]

you just can't blame the dnr all day everyday when they aren't the ones pulling the trigger.

No doubt about that, I only shot one doe during all our as a management area. I know our area well and felt I didn't need to take out extra deer there when I had other places to hunt that carried more deer. The wolves and winters do a very good job of managing the herd up where I hunt anyway.

I wish I could say the same for the rest of the guys I hunt with. At first they wouldn't shoot any does when I pushed them to shoot more and let a few bucks walk. By the end of the 5 year tag fest they were shooting every doe in sight and I had a bad feeling. We went from deer poles full of bucks and a couple of does to deer poles full of does to empty deer poles. It's easy to say we should take on the responsibility ourselves and I even tried but most hunters just won't understand until it's too late. Now the guys I hunt with are all back on the only shoot bucks bangwagon and all my talk of passing some bucks or taking a balanced harvest of does and bucks when times are good is an afterthought until we can build up the herd again.

[candiru]

Exactly- its kinda an all or nothing thing. The problem is that have no idea and can't control the numbers of deer shot the way they manage or try to manage them.

How hard is it to limit the number of people in a zone and how many does need to be shot, while limiting the number of bucks shot. We need a more balanced herd, even when there was alot of deer there were still few bucks.

Go anywhere out of state and they manage their deer for numbers to, but they limit bucks so they have a better buck to doe ratio. Not the 50-1 like most of minnesota.

The trouble with this is that you will be telling people they cannot hunt some years. If 2000 people want to hunt a permit area and the DNR says that only 200 bucks and 200 does can be taken, what are people going to do? Some of them bought land for the purpose of hunting. Now they are going to be told that they cannot hunt their own land(just so you can have your trophy). If I can't hunt my land, I am going to be steamed and I sure as heck ain't letting anyone else on.

[slimngrizzly]

you just can't blame the dnr all day everyday when they aren't the ones pulling the trigger.

[PoorWordUsage]! Man is greedy and we(the public) would kill everything if it was "legal". This is the PURPOSE of the DNR! To manage! Sometimes it might take away some opportunity from Minnesotans for the better of the herd!

Why dont we just open up the moose season to everyone? Or say everyone gets an Elk tag? Because the number of animals killed must be limited and therefore they must limit the hunters too! It works, or would work, the same way for deer if they would sack up and just try something different. It IS possible to manage for quantity AND quality at the same time!

[HunterLee]

Thats the case for everybody else in other states.

You apply where you want to hunt and get it or if you don't you have a second, third choice, or look for a leftover tag.

I like to hunt deer as much as anybody, but for the sake of the deer herd I would sacrifice a rifle season for a better quality deer herd and better hunting.

Besides it is the DNR job to manage the deer, they claim they know how many deer are out there and how many they need to harvest to keep things in check.

People are greedy and have got to like the idea of multiple deer so they will shoot them, as most people have no idea how many deer are out there they are the weekend warrior who hunts a few times a year.

Or they are the people that see herd of deer in the winter and claim there are way to many, but don't understand those deer are all that are out there in the entire unit in one field.

Candiru- thats your right as a landowner- its not for my one trophy, its for the deer in general, we shoot them all there won't be any left so I don't get my trophy and you don't get one to eat.

I am not for a super trophy herd, all I want is an aged balanced herd with the potential to get one. I like to see them as well as shoot does to, but without any management its hard to do anything.

I did however apply for a ND doe tag that I may or may not get.

[bowhunternw]

I gave up hunting gun season just because it got to be over crowded IMO. Personally I think that our deer are over pressured, lengthened out the regular firearms season and then they get a little break and then get hit with a 2 week muzzleloader season. Now in areas with abundant cover, I don't think it is as hard on deer because once they get a little pressure they go nocturnal fast and can avoid most of it. However in areas of minimal cover you have groups doing drives on any cover they can find, these deer have no chance to get big. I am not overly concerned about big bucks but would like to see a little more balance. Minnesotas way is not very effective and keeping things on a steady keel. The dakotas have a very good system - apply for license and then they only issue as many buck and doe licenses as they want to take in the given areas. I do realize that it will not happen here because think of how many PO'ed people there would be if they only got picked certain years.

[BobT]

Thats the case for everybody else in other states.

You apply where you want to hunt and get it or if you don't you have a second, third choice, or look for a leftover tag.

I like to hunt deer as much as anybody, but for the sake of the deer herd I would sacrifice a rifle season for a better quality deer herd and better hunting.

Besides it is the DNR job to manage the deer, they claim they know how many deer are out there and how many they need to harvest to keep things in check.

People are greedy and have got to like the idea of multiple deer so they will shoot them, as most people have no idea how many deer are out there they are the weekend warrior who hunts a few times a year.

Or they are the people that see herd of deer in the winter and claim there are way to many, but don't understand those deer are all that are out there in the entire unit in one field.

Candiru- thats your right as a landowner- its not for my one trophy, its for the deer in general, we shoot them all there won't be any left so I don't get my trophy and you don't get one to eat.

I am not for a super trophy herd, all I want is an aged balanced herd with the potential to get one. I like to see them as well as shoot does to, but without any management its hard to do anything.

I did however apply for a ND doe tag that I may or may not get.

I'm willing to bet that no matter what they did the DNR would do it wrong. Isn't it just possible that they are in fact trying to manage the herd and that is precisely why they declare some areas intensive harvest, some areas management, and some areas lottery only, and some areas buck only? Maybe those us on this site are far more knowledgeable than those with the bachelor's, master's, and PHD's that we hire to manage our wildlife.

[HunterLee]

Thats what they are trying to do, but they can't. They need to find another way instead of wacking and stacking or not shooting any or all bucks.

[BobT]

Thats what they are trying to do, but they can't. They need to find another way instead of wacking and stacking or not shooting any or all bucks.

So what other way would you propose that they haven't already considered and have you shared your idea(s) with them rather than just complaining and declaring them incompetent? Okay, you didn't use that word specifically but you did say the herd is unmanaged. Same thing.