Truck to pull a trailer.

[PurpleFloyd]

Can I get some input on the Ford vs Chevy vs Dodge when it comes to pulling a trailer? I am looking mostly for input on late model diesel trucks and what engine and transmission combo are the most reliable and get the best mileage. Also which ones offer the best starting in the winter.

A little background. For years in my cabinetry business we have used a 98 Ram 1500 with a 5.9 v8.Our trailer is a 6x12 which was fine most of the time and if a bigger job came along I know someone with a 22' trailer and we would just rent that by the day if needed. I replaced that with a Ford Sport trac with a v8 and it gets much better mileage than the Ram and it actually tows the small trailer just as well but we have been working with my local Small business Development Center and opening a new business that focuses on restoring existing cabinets and millwork and we have been kicking around the idea of buying something like a 30-35 foot trailer and turning it into a mobile shop that would have an onboard generator, spray booth for waterbased finishes, furnace, AC and some racks to hold parts as they dry.

In order to do this we would have to get a different truck to pull it, but in the end it would save me a great deal of mileage back and forth to a stationary shop and we wouldn't have to pay utilities, property taxes etc.

So that brings us back to what truck is the best one out there right now? I would more than likely buy something that is a few years old to keep the initial cost down but I am very flexible as to which brand that we would buy. The most important things would be what they get for mileage, how dependable they are and which ones have the lowest repairs over time.And face it, how many times does someone willingly ask for the ford vs chevy vs dodge debate lol. I am also willing to hear anyone who thinks the new ecoboost would be enough truck to pull a trailer like that.

[Valv]

This is a topic that has been gone through thousands of times.

It's the same war: Dodge better than Ford better than Chevy, and viceversa (note how I put Dodge first, others will change that, you'll see ).

When it's about towing anything you can be sure ANY of the diesel trucks are plenty enough to tow, that's it, regardless of what you have, they will be enough.

The Ecoboost is NOT capable of towing a trailer like that, it is also NOT legal to tow a trailer like that, which is the main issue.

You will need a 1ton (3500 or up) dually truck with a GVW of 12000lbs (read the label on door jamb). Your trailer loaded with all the accessories, which will be in the total weight range of approx 10,000lbs to 15,000lbs (check trailer capacity label), which puts you right near the 26,000lbs mark which means if you go any higher you will need a CDL.

Be sure to check with the DOT, since you will do this for money, you will be required to get a commercial license including MC numbers, DOT medical card, and all the regulations regarding commercial vehicle operation, don't get caught without it or you will be not very happy.

I am not trying to discourage you from doing this, don't get me wrong, I am a commercial hauler and I have to follow these rules, but I see way too many people being in dragged to court or impounded on the side of the road for not being compliant.

[Scott K]

Without getting into preferences, what suggest is, just go out and drive one of each, buy the one you like. They all will pull plenty, they all have things that go wrong with them.

My favorite so far, is the new Ford 6.7 diesel.

[PurpleFloyd]

This is a topic that has been gone through thousands of times.

[Valv]

It is always better to get your ducks in a row up front than deal with the consequences of a missed variable after the fact.

Exactly. A big pat on your back from me.

Ok, as far as mileage the 1989 to 2007.5 Dodges are unbeatable, you can expect mileage from 16mpg down to 10mpg (loaded heavy). Newer model with the 6.7l have less mpg due to emission controls, but newest are back on track.

I had 2 3500s 4x4 with 6 speed manual transmission and never went below 12mpg loaded with 13,000lbs on top of a 40ft flatbed (total 21,000lbs + truck).

Never had a problem starting even well below zero, in fact I have a Youtube video with me starting it without plugging it in.

GM have the advantage of the Allison transmission from the start. I don't like V8 diesels, but the Duramax (Isuzu motor) is a decent unit, they had serious issues to start with overheating, injectors, etc, the went up and down with the issues but now they are my 2nd choice, and the motor has been a steady unit. Mileage slightly less than the Dodge, but some had good success.

Ford would be my last choice. I had 2 7.3l and they were great motors, then the 6.0, which was plagued by numerous issues, they tried to fix it with a new 6.4l but didn't last long neither to prove durability since they fought Navistar (the engine mfg) and decided to build a new motor from scratch. It is a workhorse and impressive on paper. I have no input on durability and perfomance while towing.

They were hard to start in the cold, always needed to be plugged in, glow plugs were notorious to drop into head a wreck something.

My sources for most of my impressions are my own experience (8 Dodge Cummins, 4 Fords, 2 GMs) and a lot of friends in the hauling business (RV haulers, hotshotters, etc) which is people that puts loads on them and grinds 10k miles/month.

The perfect truck would be a Cummins engine with an Allison transmission on a Ford chassis..... but it doesn't exist.

In my honest opinion buying a truck right now will be tough, I rather stay with the 2 I mentioned, Dodge and GM, mainly because of no data on Ford, and since I have to rely on my vehicle, I cannot afford weeks in the shop, even if in warranty.

Did I make this too long ????

[PierBridge]

Allison transmission!

So GM or, 2nd choice would be an older 7.3 in the Ford heavy duty.

[DRH1175]

I just bought a new 2011 f150 with the Ecoboost and max tow package to tow my 29' Travel trailer. It has a GVW of 7700#. since I will only be towing my trailer about 5 or 6 weekends for the year. The F150 should serve my needs just fine. I started looking at Super Duty trucks. But 90% or more I will just be doing normal stuff like towing my lund, or getting lumber etc... The superduty for me was way overkill thus I bought the f150. In your case it really depends on what you will use it for. If you do buy a 30-35' trailer and use it as a mobile workshop. I would for sure be looking at a HD truck with a diesel for sure.ay of them would work. My personel favorite would be the new Ford with the 6.7. But each his own on that since they all will do the job with flying colors. Or you could look at a ford Gas with a 4.30 rear end if you want to save some money. But if you pull that loaded trailer around with you every day I would strongly look at a diesel since that is where they shine. either way good luck!

[Lip_Ripper Guy]

If I remember right, 24 and 28' trailers are usually tandem, and over 28' is either a 5th wheel with a tandem or triple axle if bumper pull. Really, you would be fine up to probably 28' with a half ton, otherwise probably a diesel. The Ecoboost would tow the smaller ones no problem. Watch your weight carefully.

[PurpleFloyd]

Thanks for the added replies. The trailer will never be very loaded. It will probably have less than 1000 pounds of tools in it and the rest will just be open air as what I need is square footage to hold parts while I spray them and as they dry so there won't be much added weight above and beyond the trailer itself. All of the tools I will have are currently in a 6x12 and it is not loaded down much at all.

The other question I have would be is there a big advantage to a 5th wheel over the bumper pull trailers? I imagine the F.W are easier to maneuver when backing them in and they probably pull down the road better?

[Powerstroke]

Having a gooseneck trailer (hitches in the bed) is preferable on such a large trailer for many reasons. They ride and handle better since the trailer pivots over the rear axle instead of on the rear bumper and the weight is carried on the rear axle rather than being cantilevered on the rear-most portion of the truck. They are easier to back and allow for more weight sharing between the truck and trailer.

As far as which truck to buy. Good luck. Sadly I would say stay away from the Ford 6.0 and 6.4. I'm a huge Ford guy, but they are too much of a gamble. The new 6.7 Ford is an amazing motor. The Ford Torqshift tranny is as good as the Allison, if not better. I know that's blasphemy, but it has proven itself.

After that I think its a tie. The Chevy is a really nice truck, but I don't like Independent front suspension on a HD truck or their exterior design. Its a little superficial but if you're gonna pay for it you better like it.

The newest testing shows that the Chevy is the fastest and "more powerful" of the newest models, with Ford running second. With the great trannies and Ford getting nicer interiors its close. If Ford would get the locking rear diff I think they would have the complete package.

[dougger222]

Be very careful when looking at Dodge/Cummins. Pre 03's had a lot of tranny problems, both auto and manual. I know guys who ran both trannies hot shotting and both had do a lot of tranny swaps in both applications. The earlier ones had a fair amount of problems. The most common are blocks that say 53 (boat anchor), injector and lift pump failures. The safest bet would be an 03 or newer with auto tranny.

GM Duramax's are good but the early 01's had issues with the fuel system typicaly effecting the injectors. GM upped the warranty to 200K miles and 7 years but those warranties are long gone now. The 05's had an overheating issue which I think is still up in the air as to why. The Allison is a good tranny but like anything it can fail. GM basicly bought Allison and built a 1000 series to put in the pick ups. This Allison is a watered down version, but still a good tranny. GM has been running the same block longer than both Ford and Fiat.

Ford ran International Harvester/Navistar Powerstrokes from 94(turbo) to 2010 MY. In that time they ran three motors, the 7.3, 6.0, and 6.4. The 7.3 as many will agree the strongest runner of the bunch. The motor had a few issues but they were mostly simple fixes. The 6.0 was launched mainly to keep up with the higher HP and TQ numbers of the Duramax at the time. The motor was really a disaster for Ford and Navistar. It was reported that a couple years into production Ford had hit $1,000,000,000 (yes, billion) in warranty repairs. There are some good early 6.0's out there however. Many think the 06 and 07 6.0's were much more reliable than the earlier ones. The 6.4 is more reliable than the 6.0 but it also had it's share of issues. The biggest problem is the horible fuel mileage. The Ford built 6.7 is the answer to the past two Powerstrokes. Only time will tell how these hold up.

Personaly for my roofing business I run three diesel vehicles, 2000 Excursion, 99 F250, and 99 F350 DRW. All original motors still run great, and only the F250 has had tranny issues (all auto's). To date the most expensive repair to any of them motor wise is the F250 which had to have brass coupling replaced under the injectors, $1,000. Total miles on the three is 723,000 miles.

Like others have mentioned if looking new test drive all three. If looking used do some research and fine the weak points of each and ask if the current owner has service records. Typicaly dealerships won't have any service issues but I know Ford does an OASIS report.

If the truck has been taken care of 100K miles is nothing and even 150K miles should be of no concern for a diesel.

[dougger222]

Also, as far as the trailer in question. Not only for the weight of it but more the sheer size and mass a dually would be best.

[PurpleFloyd]

Be very careful when looking at Dodge/Cummins. Pre 03's had a lot of tranny problems, both auto and manual. I know guys who ran both trannies hot shotting and both had do a lot of tranny swaps in both applications. The earlier ones had a fair amount of problems. The most common are blocks that say 53 (boat anchor), injector and lift pump failures. The safest bet would be an 03 or newer with auto tranny.

GM Duramax's are good but the early 01's had issues with the fuel system typicaly effecting the injectors. GM upped the warranty to 200K miles and 7 years but those warranties are long gone now. The 05's had an overheating issue which I think is still up in the air as to why. The Allison is a good tranny but like anything it can fail. GM basicly bought Allison and built a 1000 series to put in the pick ups. This Allison is a watered down version, but still a good tranny. GM has been running the same block longer than both Ford and Fiat.

Ford ran International Harvester/Navistar Powerstrokes from 94(turbo) to 2010 MY. In that time they ran three motors, the 7.3, 6.0, and 6.4. The 7.3 as many will agree the strongest runner of the bunch. The motor had a few issues but they were mostly simple fixes. The 6.0 was launched mainly to keep up with the higher HP and TQ numbers of the Duramax at the time. The motor was really a disaster for Ford and Navistar. It was reported that a couple years into production Ford had hit $1,000,000,000 (yes, billion) in warranty repairs. There are some good early 6.0's out there however. Many think the 06 and 07 6.0's were much more reliable than the earlier ones. The 6.4 is more reliable than the 6.0 but it also had it's share of issues. The biggest problem is the horible fuel mileage. The Ford built 6.7 is the answer to the past two Powerstrokes. Only time will tell how these hold up.

Personaly for my roofing business I run three diesel vehicles, 2000 Excursion, 99 F250, and 99 F350 DRW. All original motors still run great, and only the F250 has had tranny issues (all auto's). To date the most expensive repair to any of them motor wise is the F250 which had to have brass coupling replaced under the injectors, $1,000. Total miles on the three is 723,000 miles.

Like others have mentioned if looking new test drive all three. If looking used do some research and fine the weak points of each and ask if the current owner has service records. Typicaly dealerships won't have any service issues but I know Ford does an OASIS report.

If the truck has been taken care of 100K miles is nothing and even 150K miles should be of no concern for a diesel.

Thanks for the input. I have been looking around and it seems like the price range I would be in puts me in the 2007-2009 range. The new Fords and Chevy's both look like incredible rigs but the dealer has them at just a shade under 60 grand which is way out of my budget. I did look at a 08 Dodge for about 28000 that was a nice looking truck but I think maybe the 2008-2009 Chevy looks like the best combo so far.

[PurpleFloyd]

Having a gooseneck trailer (hitches in the bed) is preferable on such a large trailer for many reasons. They ride and handle better since the trailer pivots over the rear axle instead of on the rear bumper and the weight is carried on the rear axle rather than being cantilevered on the rear-most portion of the truck. They are easier to back and allow for more weight sharing between the truck and trailer.

As far as which truck to buy. Good luck. Sadly I would say stay away from the Ford 6.0 and 6.4. I'm a huge Ford guy, but they are too much of a gamble. The new 6.7 Ford is an amazing motor. The Ford Torqshift tranny is as good as the Allison, if not better. I know that's blasphemy, but it has proven itself.

After that I think its a tie. The Chevy is a really nice truck, but I don't like Independent front suspension on a HD truck or their exterior design. Its a little superficial but if you're gonna pay for it you better like it.

The newest testing shows that the Chevy is the fastest and "more powerful" of the newest models, with Ford running second. With the great trannies and Ford getting nicer interiors its close. If Ford would get the locking rear diff I think they would have the complete package.

Thanks for the info.

Is there anything different as far as permits or licensing that is needed between a 5th wheel and a bumper pull trailer?

I understand both will need to be DOT certified, need fire extinguishers etc. I won't haul enough weight to worry about payload offenses but other than that what else do I need to do? Is there a point where I need more than a class C license or any other regulation that I might not be informed of?

[Valv]

If you stay below 26000lbs combined max weight registration you will not need a CDL.

Read the label on door jamb, it should say 12,000lbs for the truck. Read the label on trailer, it should say eg. GVWR or Max GVW 14,000lbs, add both together it will be 26,000. 1 pound above it you will need a CDL.

When you buy the trailer you can have the manufacturer re-label it to the max weight you want, but be sure you will not go over. A 35ft gooseneck/5th wheel enclosed trailer should weight around 5000lbs/6000lbs empty.

You don't need any special permit to pull a gooseneck or 5th wheel trailer.

[Powerstroke]

A medical card is required if you drive any vehicle rated for more than 10,000 lbs and is operated for commercial purposes.

This means that you should make sure that your truck isn't rated for more than 10K lbs or you will need a medical card no matter how much the combo weighs. If the combo is rated for more than 26000 lbs then you'll need a CDL and med card so its a moot point.

I think Valv is right on that you should easily be below the 26K lbs rule, but make sure the truck stays at 10K lbs even and you won't need to have a medical card.

[PurpleFloyd]

Thanks guys.

[Valv]

Be very careful when looking at Dodge/Cummins. Pre 03's had a lot of tranny problems, both auto and manual. I know guys who ran both trannies hot shotting and both had do a lot of tranny swaps in both applications. The earlier ones had a fair amount of problems. The most common are blocks that say 53 (boat anchor), injector and lift pump failures. The safest bet would be an 03 or newer with auto tranny.

The only issue with transmissions were from people that added bigger injectors, modified the pump or added electronics, or all 3 together, This happened to all 3 brands including Ford. 5 speed issue was losening the 5th gear gear, transmission was same on Chevy trucks too, same problem, solved with a small repair.

'99 to '01 had issues with lift pumps which in return damaged the injection pump. Block 53 was more a hype than a reality, a small imperfection in the casting resulted in a few motors developing a crack in the lower portion of the block with loss of coolant. Thousands were made and never had a problem, including generators, agricultural, defense, etc. I personally had 2 of them and no issue, and never met in person somebody that did. There were more cases of Powerstrokes dropping glow plugs into the head than Dodge block 53 and pump problems combined.

One of my best trucks was a '01 6speed. The truck was bought with 157k miles and pulled to 260k miles. It did 22mpg empty and 17mpg towing very heavy. Never had an issue and I added larger injectors and a programmer. The truck still drives around with the current owner waving every time I see him.

[LwnmwnMan2]

My best truck was an '03 Dodge 2500 auto 5,9 Cummins with 3.50 rear ends. Empty at 60 with the cruise set it would get 22-25 mpg.