40% of MN deer hunters refuse to shoot an antlerless deer

[lakevet]

In the antlerless permit days, we would look for a big doe without fawns, or one out of a group mature does and fawns so the fawns could run thru the winter with an experienced doe. However, if we only saw a single deer, it usually was taken, esp after the first couple days of season. Lone fawn survival is low in our area. Wasn't 100% but with low deer numbers we adjusted. When a couple years ago the deer numbers were the highest in our area that anyone including relatives in their 90's could remember, combined with management tags available, we were less selective. Too high a population at that time for the habitat.

I know the DNR is a little puzzled why the 2010 antlerless harvest didn't go up more in SE MN with the new regs. Increasing antlerless harvest is the main reason they used for justifying for going with APR's. That is clearing stated in the regs book last year. Increased antlerless harvest didn't happen, but it is only one season. If they don't get the increase the want, could it be because of the reluctance of 40% to shoot a doe?

lakevet

[someday]

While there was likely some of that down here a lot of hunters who go 3A and target bucks switched over to shooting does many with fawns. In areas where a lot of hunters go 3A the 3B hunters complained of only seeing large groups of fawns during their season. I think there is a strong resistance to shooting fawns.

[rkhinrichs]

they say shooting a muture doe is just as hard as shooting a muture buck!

[Bear55]

they say shooting a muture doe is just as hard as shooting a muture buck!

An old doe alone is a very difficult animal to kill, especially with archery equipment, with a gun it gets a little easier. However many old does are shot every year because they are a little more vulnerable with their fawns.

[someday]

The party's I talked to hunted the bluff lands and mostly used drives. The reason they gave was a medium sized deer with fawns running along side was most likely a legal deer to shoot.

[Gopher_Guy]

This past fall I shot a B&C doe. The thing was huge. It dwarfed the nice buck my dad shot. I thinK I was more excited shooting this doe, with a gun no less, than any other deer I have ever shot. I have shot exactly 1 buck in the last 10 years and it makes no difference to me. I have shot plenty of does however. I pass on quite a few bucks each year and will shoot the doe over the buck every time unless it's a really big buck.

[hockeybc69]

What the heck is the point of your post???

[Gopher_Guy]

What the heck is the point of your post???

That it can be every bit as rewarding shooting a big doe as a nice buck. I was just relating a story I had from the past fall.

Thanks for the triple question marks though.

[TooTallTom]

What the heck is the point of your post???

I thought it was pretty obvious.

[MichaelSwan]

I can see some reluctance to shoot a doe knowing there may be a buck trailing behind... I too have shot exactly 2 bucks, and I am waiting on a big one now. Having said that, does are fair game especially toward the end of the season...

The biggest deer I've shot was a huge doe in WI, Not sure what it weight but when I asked my neighbor over to help lift it to hang it, he laughed at me until he saw it.

Was a really cool hunt as after I hit her, waited and followed the tracks in the snow (still snowing) i tracked her to a fallen tree. There were no tracks out of it, I circled back around and she had crawled beneath the canopy way up in there. Old and wise.

I should also state, that i for one pass on small bucks. I feel that if everyone passed on small ones, there would be more big ones... I know you can't eat horns but man, a big buck would be much more fun to tag -for me anyway!

[bigbucks]

All I can say is I know a lot of people who gun hunt in large parties & I don't know of any guys in any of those parties that won't shoot does. I've heard of far more parties that try not to shoot young bucks & try not to shoot fawns, as opposed to those who won't shoot does. Maybe we're just rednecks around here, I don't know...

[Bear55]

All I can say is I know a lot of people who gun hunt in large parties & I don't know of any guys in any of those parties that won't shoot does. I've heard of far more parties that try not to shoot young bucks & try not to shoot fawns, as opposed to those who won't shoot does. Maybe we're just rednecks around here, I don't know...

bigbucks I agree with you and do see the same thing. However I have seen the same guys who are willing to shoot does still wait for a buck, or shoot a spike instead of a doe when they have both tags in their pocket and both deer right in front of them. I think there is a little gray area here and a lot of what people shoot depend on the circumstances of each hunt. I also think a lot of people were raised not to shoot does and it's just in their DNA, it's not that they won't shoot a doe because they do and will admit it. It's that deep down they prefer to shoot the buck because they have always been taught that a doe will have fawns next year and they want to see and shoot more deer.

[bigbucks]

Now that you mention that I know of a party of basically older guys that shoot only bucks & fawns. They don't shoot does, because they feel that's like killing 3 deer for next year. It's a strange dynamic put one of those group next to one like ours & that translates to brown...

[theiceman]

I think a big part to this is most deer hunters see a big doe and say 6pt buck standing there they'll shoot the buck just to say they shot a buck. Myself I'd shoot both deer and than go fishing.

[PostFrontal]

I also think a lot of people were raised not to shoot does and it's just in their DNA, it's not that they won't shoot a doe because they do and will admit it. It's that deep down they prefer to shoot the buck because they have always been taught that a doe will have fawns next year and they want to see and shoot more deer.

Absolutely right. Different generation that shot bucks because the deer numbers were low years back.

The neighbors of the farm we hunt by Sauk Centre (in their 60's), and the people we hunt with in Wisconsin (also in their 60's) still hunt this way.

[BobT]

Quote:

I also think a lot of people were raised not to shoot does and it's just in their DNA, it's not that they won't shoot a doe because they do and will admit it. It's that deep down they prefer to shoot the buck because they have always been taught that a doe will have fawns next year and they want to see and shoot more deer.

You know me too well.

[PFUNK]

I hunt in a party of about 10 guys in the west metro near Hutchinson. When I first started hunting a little over 10 years ago, our party pretty much shot whatever we could with the exceptions of fawns. As I got a little older, I decided I was going to let the does walk and my dad and uncles joined me in doing the same. We would hold out for a nice buck until the end of the season neared, and if we still didn't have enough deer hanging to make meat, we would take a doe if we had the chance. We also talked to several other groups in the area and found that they had started to do the same and were trying to limit how many does they were taking. In the years following, I began to see deer in higher and higher numbers. We as a group began to see more and more bucks as well. One season, after conferring with some neighboring parties, we had counted over 20 bucks being harvested. This alarmed me at first thinking too many had been taken, but it kept getting better and better. After starting hunting, it took me several years to kill my first buck, but after we began letting does walk, I started killing bucks in consecutive years. I have since moved away for school, but my dad has passed on several smaller bucks the last two years while bow hunting, and this last season was able to kill a buck that went on the wall. He had a night last year where he had 7 different bucks on the field at once. That NEVER would have happened when I started hunting. Two years ago, he was after a very nice buck all season with the bow, and the first day of shotgun season my uncle was able to harvest it. It scored over 150. I guess my point is that by letting most does and smaller bucks walk, you are going to get more mature bucks. I think the whole "herd management" and the "need to take does" gets blown way out of proportion by the guys on TV. There is so much hunting pressure where I hunt that enough does will be taken without me having to shoot them. Having said that, if it comes down towards the end of the season and we don't have deer, I would take a doe. But I do not see that being a problem. No expert here, but this is my experience and I thought I would share.

[BobT]

I hunt in a party of about 10 guys in the west metro near Hutchinson. When I first started hunting a little over 10 years ago, our party pretty much shot whatever we could with the exceptions of fawns. As I got a little older, I decided I was going to let the does walk and my dad and uncles joined me in doing the same. We would hold out for a nice buck until the end of the season neared, and if we still didn't have enough deer hanging to make meat, we would take a doe if we had the chance. We also talked to several other groups in the area and found that they had started to do the same and were trying to limit how many does they were taking. In the years following, I began to see deer in higher and higher numbers. We as a group began to see more and more bucks as well. One season, after conferring with some neighboring parties, we had counted over 20 bucks being harvested. This alarmed me at first thinking too many had been taken, but it kept getting better and better. After starting hunting, it took me several years to kill my first buck, but after we began letting does walk, I started killing bucks in consecutive years. I have since moved away for school, but my dad has passed on several smaller bucks the last two years while bow hunting, and this last season was able to kill a buck that went on the wall. He had a night last year where he had 7 different bucks on the field at once. That NEVER would have happened when I started hunting. Two years ago, he was after a very nice buck all season with the bow, and the first day of shotgun season my uncle was able to harvest it. It scored over 150. I guess my point is that by letting most does and smaller bucks walk, you are going to get more mature bucks. I think the whole "herd management" and the "need to take does" gets blown way out of proportion by the guys on TV. There is so much hunting pressure where I hunt that enough does will be taken without me having to shoot them. Having said that, if it comes down towards the end of the season and we don't have deer, I would take a doe. But I do not see that being a problem. No expert here, but this is my experience and I thought I would share.

It could just be that the population continued to grow like it did throughout the entire state over that same time period. When I first started hunting I went for the first four years before seeing so much as a flag. Since then our hunting success has seen nothing but continued improvement and as of now our party (my brother and I along with our kids as they've joined us) hasn't been skunked in over 25 years. The MN deer population has been on an incline for years and it may have nothing to do with what you've done.

[Rippinlip]

Sorry I did not read the complete article, but I think the mentality has changed over generations.

When I started it was the same as alot of posters have commented we shot everything. As my dad, brother, cousins all grew older the mentality changed, we let deer walk, took the ones we wanted to, not 1st come, 1st dead.

I no longer need or want to harvest the 1st deer I see, and I do let many small bucks walk. Since I have been Bow hunting and have the oppurtunity to have multiple tags I will take a doe for the freezer if a decent anterless doe presents me with the oppurtunity.

Basically I have no issue taking a doe. All taste the same on the grill...um um good.

[PFUNK]

The MN deer population has been on an incline for years and it may have nothing to do with what you've done.

This is possibly playing some role in it, but I really don't think it is the main factor. The area I have described is where a few of us (myself,dad,uncle) have focused our efforts. Other members of our party hunt some areas nearby and have not seen the same increase in buck harvest, or harvest of any deer for that matter. They are more likely to take a doe early in the season and use up their tag, and I guess you could say they are more of the "meat hunter" type. I have absolutely zero problem with that, as it is up to them what they want to shoot or leave go. But, they have not seen the same increase in deer numbers that we have. Also, I should add that I don't think the area they hunt is any less "productive" as a deer habitat. In fact, that area used to be our most productive spot, and is actually where I took my first deer ever. Like I said, this is just my opinion and I don't know for sure why we are seeing and harvesting so many more quality deer. But I am convinced that a concentrated effort between several parties in the immediate area to limit doe/fawn harvest has brought the number of mature deer up.

[BobT]

Every deer a hunter lets walk obviously is one more deer left alive to breed again and if the deer population was in dire straits I could believe letting a single deer walk could have a rather significant impact but considering what the deer population has been since about 1990, one or two groups of hunters letting one or two deer in a single hunting area live will have a minor impact at best. It’s like thinking that letting one worker honey bee of a hive live is somehow going to have a dramatic impact. This is assuming that there are other hunters that use the area. If you own multiple sections of land in the area and control the hunting then you can impact the area through your own management practices.

I didn’t notice it before but your statements seem to be contradicting your signature don’t they? Or are you being intentionally ironic?

[Bear55]

I have to agree with BobT, you just had a lot more deer around and had a lot more success. More deer equals more bucks slipping through the cracks and getting to reach an older age class. We had the same thing happen up way up north with no forms of management or cooperation from neighbors.

The one thing to consider is not letting the population get out of control, if you have too many does around they will be fighting the bucks for nutrition and you might see the overall size of your bucks decline. I doubt you ever reached that point but if you are seeing a lot of does every single hunt it's probably time to take a few out.

[Musky Buck]

40% refuse, then why aren't my uncles farms overrun with antlerless, been 30 years for some of them since they took a doe, someone is thinning them out.

[PFUNK]

HAHA! Signature does seem a little ironic here doesn't it. Just something my cousin always liked to say and I like the ring and have had it on here for as long as I've been on the site. Refers to more than just deer being "brown".

Not sure what the deer population was like in the 90's as I didn't start hunting till 2000 I believe, but the hunting wasn't that great for the first few years I hunted. Your post seems to suggest the population has been very healthy since the 90's and in general maybe it has been, but it wasn't reflected in our success rates. I remember the first few years I hunted, it would be a real thrill to see multiple deer on a given morning or evening, and I had years where I didn't see more than a few the entire season. We would end up making a lot of deer drives and covering a lot of ground to get a few deer for meat. I guess it is irrelevant as to exactly why we have had more success, but what we have been doing has been paying off in my eyes, whether or not any of it has been a direct result of the changes we made. I think your last statement is basically what I was saying has been done in our area, and you state you think that it could help control the hunting. No we don't own the land that we are hunting, but a lot of the neighboring parties do own their land and they are the guys that have been letting most does and some year old bucks walk as well. Everyone probably has a differing opinion on it, but as well as we have been doing it would be foolish to change anything. Is it just simply a population boom?... sure as shootin' could be. But by no means would I say there are "too many" deer in our area.

To bear55... thats the funny thing. It hasn't been that we have been seeing a lot more does. Definitely seeing more, but the biggest increase for some reason has been the number of bucks. It's quite a bit of fun when you can let more than one buck walk in a single night, something we never would have thought of doing of before.

[Bear55]

Pfunk what you are describing follows the deer population pretty closely. We had some pretty severe winters in 96 and 97 and the hunting could be considered terrible in the late 90's depending on your area and it then started turning around in early 2000's. If you check out the 94 to 2010 harvest report you can see what I mean. http://files.dnr.state.mn.us/recreation/hunting/deer/2010-harvestreport.pdf

Now it might depend on the area, it seems some areas still hold a lot of deer while others have a much lower population then the boom years of 2003 to 2007.

If you guys are happy with what you are seeing and shooting by all means keep it up. I would just try to keep an eye on things in your area, the DNR uses a very broad brush to control the population which they have to do, I just like to take a little more personal responsibility in my hunting areas and shoot does where the populations are healthy and only target bucks or more specifically mature bucks where the populations are lower.