Sioux Mascot

[cbrooks]

I think the Nazi's parties could have been taken the wrong way. Bad judgement on his part no question about it. He was a big WW2 collector. It was more of a WW2 party is one story with a few nazi's in there. He has all kinds of WW2 things along with the Hitler memborlia. I can't defend the Hitler colection but he was a war history buff. I suppose a colection wouldn't be complete without some Adolf things in there.

[Steve Foss]

Quote:

By Chuck Haga

Grand Forks Herald

Monday

"This is a good day,” Jody Hodgson said Monday, shortly after the North Dakota House voted 65-28 to pass a bill that would direct UND to keep its Fighting Sioux nickname and logo. “I’m very happy with what happened today,” said Hodgson, general manager of Ralph Engelstad Arena, the privately-owned home of the Fighting Sioux hockey team. “I support the will of the people, which was expressed in the House today.” Hodgson testified when the House Education Committee held a hearing last month on three nickname bills, and he said he plans to testify when the House-approved bill goes before a Senate committee. Leigh Jeanotte, director of American Indian Studies at UND, said he also will be there — to make the case again for dropping the Fighting Sioux nickname and logo. “I’ll fight this as long as I’m at UND,” he said. “It’s got to go away.” He said the people of Standing Rock have expressed “often and clearly,” through district votes on the reservation and repeated actions by the elected Tribal Council, their opposition to the university’s use of the Sioux name and Indian head logos. “What part of ‘no’ don’t they understand?” he asked. Jeanotte challenged nickname supporters’ contention that tribal council votes aren’t enough and the people of Standing Rock should vote on the nickname issue. “If they’re going to follow that rationale, our Legislature shouldn’t be voting on this,” he said. “It should be the people of the state.” UND remains in transition mode Hodgson said nickname supporters realize that “we have a steep hill to climb in the Senate, but I’m optimistic we’ll prevail there, too.” It’s a complex issue, he said, “with lots of variables and varied opinions. There’s been so much information on both sides of the issue, and that makes it difficult for those who haven’t been involved in it as much as we have been.” Through a spokesman, UND President Robert Kelley said he respects the legislative process and will continue to follow what occurs there. At the same time, UND will continue to follow the directive issued last April by the State Board of Higher Education and proceed with the transition, spokesman Peter Johnson said. Kelley has two “task groups” working on transition issues and a “transition cabinet” to advise him. “The Aug. 15 deadline (when the transition is to be complete) is looming,” Johnson said. “We want to make sure we’re ready for that.” The cabinet, which includes students, American Indians, former athletes and alumni representatives as well as two former governors and a former U.S. senator, held its first meeting Friday. Don Barcome Jr., an ardent supporter of the nickname, helped to promote a statewide e-mail campaign aimed at members of the House prior to Monday’s vote. Once the vote was in, he said, within minutes he received celebratory e-mails from Archie Fool Bear of Standing Rock and Eunice Davidson of Spirit Lake, leaders of the pro-nickname factions on their respective reservations. Fool Bear told the Herald that the vote “was a good thing for the people of North Dakota, for UND, for race relations in this state and for all our native students who will attend UND. “It shows a majority of the people of North Dakota don’t have a problem with the name,” he said. “The name does not create prejudice.” Fool Bear said he’s confident the nickname bill will continue to advance. “Now we have to prepare for the Senate,” he said. “The ‘anti’ people will continue to be ‘anti,’ but the Legislature is more open-minded to the issues that are going on.” Barcome, too, said he’s confident. “I just smiled when I heard the vote,” he said. “It was a very good feeling. I know it’s not over, but I can’t imagine the Senate not respecting what happened (Monday) in the House. “This vote shows a groundswell across the state. If you had an open vote across the state, it wouldn’t even be close.” Barcome said he has “no idea” what happens if the Senate goes along with the House and the bill is signed into law by Gov. Jack Dalrymple. Questions have been raised concerning the bill’s constitutionality because it mandates certain actions by the state board, an independent constitutional body. It also states that the attorney general should consider suing the NCAA if the association tries to punish UND for retaining the nickname. “I don’t think anybody knows what happens next,” Barcome said. Despite the uncertainty, there was much celebrating Monday on Internet blogs and comment sites where the nickname issue has lived large in recent months. “Hey PC crowd — Do ya like apples? How’d ya like them apples?” one commenter chortled, borrowing a popular movie line (from the film “Good Will Hunting”) to tweak noses of nickname opponents who are frequently dismissed as “politically correct.” Another commenter wrote, “It’s refreshing to have the House of Reps stand up for the majority of N.D. citizens and for the Spirit Lake Nation. Thank you, legislators. Senate, now it’s your turn. Sioux yeah yeah!!!” But another said he agreed with comments made on the House floor Monday by Rep. Eliot Glassheim, D-Grand Forks, who voted against the nickname bill. “I am a loyal Sioux supporter, but Glassheim is absolutely correct here,” he wrote. “This battle has already been fought. If the legislature wants to be a part of the process, they should have been in the trenches when the NCAA lawsuit was going on when the rest of us were fighting to keep it. Bottom line, it’s too little too late. Their current effort is wasted.” Reach Haga at (701) 780-1102; (800) 477-6572, ext. 102; or send e-mail to [email protected].

[Shorelunch]

It offends the majority of Native Americans! IMO that's the reason!

Pier, you are incorrect. It would take a while to dig up, but polls taken in ND show the people of the tribes are in favor (generally 60-70%) of UND using the Fighting Sioux name. It has been the council who wants the name abolished. The people of the tribes like the name because it places the name in high regard and so the tribe/history won't be forgotten.

Are there tribes' people against the name? Sure, but the majority are in favor of it. Franchises like Florida State have been able to keep their name because they have much deeper pockets than UND.

[cbrooks]

So after the Senate in North Dakota votes in favor of the nickname being kept. The only people they need to get approval from is the NCAA and North Dakota school Board. Oh there still needs to be a vote on Standing Rock Reservation(located south of Bismarck). Getting that vote organize will be a battle. That Res has other problems to address.

The vote that your referring to Shorelunch took place last year that was at Spirit Lake(located by Devils Lake).

In the end after UND jumps through all the hoops with the votes. They still have to win over the NCAA. I'm willing to bet that never happens. UND's hockey program will never suffer but the rest of there sports will get shafted by the NCAA. For example other teams won't schedule games against UND. All this for a nickname. Its not even about the Native Americans anymore.

[Bear55]

What a mess, I haven't really been following all that closely but somewhere or somehow it just seems like someone dropped the ball in this thing. Again I have zero inside info but it just seems like a Florida State like deal could have been worked out for the right amount of $$$. The students, alum, state, and even the tribal population appear to be in favor of keeping this name, sad to see it go.

[SalmonSlayer]

Bear, I think you hit the nail on the head. The tibal council does not have any real problem with them using the name or logo, they're just holding out for more $$$.

[solbes]

+1 for Bear's comments. Why did this have to be all court room, legislature, NCAA threats type of stuff? Couldn't they have come to an agreement of some sort along the way and avoided all the DRAMA?

It's been going on forever. Just seems like an issue that should never have gotten to the proportions that it did.

[Scum Frog]

Look who is involved it's always about drama and money.

[Steve Foss]

If you know the history of the issue or research back several years, you will find that it was the NCAA that told UND it would have to drop the nickname in order to continue to be part of the NCAA. UND fought back. Hard. A compromise was reached, and as part of that compromise, the support of both "Sioux" tribes in North Dakota (Standing Rock and Spirit Lake) was required within a certain time frame.

The Spirit Lake Tribal Council put it to a vote of the tribal members, and they approved it with about 66 percent voting yes. The Standing Rock Tribal Council, or at least a couple key councilors, were against it, and did not allow the tribe to vote on the issue in time for the NCAA deadline(s). Surveys indicated it was likely the vote would have been about the same as Spirit Lake.

Had that vote been allowed to take place, odds are this would all be water under the bridge right now.

The NCAA thing is only one angle, and now that UND athletics have found other athletic associations, not necessarily the biggest angle anymore. The NCAA just started the whole mess. There is, of course, far far more that's gone on here over the years, with several key players involved. It has indeed been one messy, convoluted and complex road that has brought us here.

I doubt the NCAA is gonna give two farts in the wind whether the North Dakota Legislature and governor produce legislation in favor of the name.

[cbrooks]

.

I doubt the NCAA is gonna give two farts in the wind whether the North Dakota Legislature and governor produce legislation in favor of the name.

No doubt about that. The NCAA hates UND more than any Bison or Gopher fan.

[scsavre]

HAHA, I dont know if the NCAA hates em. I think when you look at the big picture. The NCAA couldnt care less about UND. THey are a very small blip on the radar. Maybe at the level of the WCHA they would care.....

Likely easier for them to get rid of the Sioux name, than to ever hear about it again.

[cbrooks]

Maybe Scott. I have my theory on why the NCAA hates UND.

[Bear55]

Who could blame them, UND is easy to hate!

Thanks for the summary Steve, would you agree if Ralph were still alive this whole matter would have been taken care of and UND would still be the Sioux?

[PierBridge]

No I'm not wrong.

I wasn't talking about the Florida Seminoles tribes or The Spirit Lake and Standing Rock tribes/COUNCILS that see the potential benefits and who have been bought off with Millions of dollars in cash and tuition promises.

I was referring to all Native Americans in general majority who find it offensive.

And yes I know the polls on both sides which contradict each other on the matter.

[Steve Foss]

Steve, would you agree if Ralph were still alive this whole matter would have been taken care of and UND would still be the Sioux?

No, the NCAA got a bug up its a$$ about Native American sports team names and decided to target some schools and let others off. I don't think picking UND had anything to do with money, nor that Ralph's millions would have made any difference in the NCAA's case.

None of this was UND's fault. It was just UND's turn.

Just my opinion.

[cbrooks]

Ok. This is just my crazy theory on why the NCAA hates UND. Going back in time to the former president Ken Baker. He was a great president for the university. Students like him ,staff like him but he had plans to change the nickname. He was fired suddenly in 97 or 98 after he was praised for taking UND through the flood and getting it ready for the next year. I don't know if there was ever a reason or it was a buyout or what. The following year Engelstad made his announcement for his generous gift for 100 million dollars.

Part two reason. Charli Kupechella(sp) UND's next president came in. In the winter of 2000 maybe right in the middle of the construction of Engelstad arena there was talk of dropping the schools logo. Engelstad wrote a letter to Kupechella and sent a copy to the GF Herald threaten to pulling his donation right in the middle of the construction of the arena if the name change or logo changed at all. I can't remember what the letter said but what was said in there basically be little the UND president and probably offended the NCAA. I'll try to find the letter and post it on here. Thats why I think the NCAA hates UND. Ralph pizz them off. In a way I kind of admire him for it but it didn't do UND any favors but then again who receive the generous donation. I guess we're paying now.

[yakfisher]

Just remember you still have time to purchase your Fighting Sioux memorabilia through the NCAA HSOforum.

You see through this entire process over the last three years the NCAA has seen fit to profit from this so claimed racist and abusive nickname by continuing to sell logo merchandise. I checked the HSOforum shortly after the first announcement and again yesterday, items are still available unfortunately the prices haven't been reduced.

If the NCAA feels so strongly that the name should be changed, I think they should also have taken the moral high ground and removed all Sioux merchandise or donate the proceeds to Native American scholarships.

Unfortunately the only people that will be punished over this issue will be the students of UND. Either the native students will lose scholarships or non athletes will lose scholarships. Either way it does not affect the NCAA. Just the students they claim to represent.

No matter how it turns out, I will always be a Fighting Sioux!

[Steve Foss]

"]Go Sioux is right. Odiferous rodentia.

Fixed it for ya.

[harvey lee]

The NCAA should find something better to do rather than hassle schools on their names.

Like this is the biggest issue of the century.

[DHK]

It isn't the biggest issue of the century. In fact it was supposed to be doen with last century. But the nit wit GOP lawmakers in Bismarck decided to second-guess their own university and board of higher education. The fact is the mascot is offensive. UND is welcomed to bow out of the NCAA at anytime if it can't abide by the rules of common decency. Hasn't this fight already embarrassed North Dakota enough?

[SalmonSlayer]

Easy there DHK. You're making some broad generalizations, and also completely missing certain FACTS. It's not a fact that the mascot is offensive. It doesn't offend me one bit, and I'm as native to America as you can get. Secondly, Florida State is a member of the NCAA. Are they not abiding by the rules of common decency? The only group that should be embarrassed is the Standing Rock tribal council.

[Bryce]

Why let the facts get in the way of a perfectly good story? Would be interesting to get a history of the name controversy - and how much it's cost the university. I seem to remember there being an uprising over the name during my time there circa 1990ish. Some good old cash quieted that down. Fighting Sioux always or I hope they go without a mascot to somewhat thumb our nose at the NCAA.

[Bear55]

No, the NCAA got a bug up its a$$ about Native American sports team names and decided to target some schools and let others off. I don't think picking UND had anything to do with money, nor that Ralph's millions would have made any difference in the NCAA's case.

None of this was UND's fault. It was just UND's turn.

Just my opinion.

I guess I was thinking more along the lines of getting a deal cut with tribes to gain NCAA approval. You know, here is a big check and you get a % of the jersey sales and we keep our name kind of stuff.

[Steve Foss]

I guess I was thinking more along the lines of getting a deal cut with tribes to gain NCAA approval. You know, here is a big check and you get a % of the jersey sales and we keep our name kind of stuff.

Oh sorry, never thought of it that way. That might have worked.

[DHK]

Facts would be that the Seminole Indians are OK with Florida State's use of the nickname -- the NCAA asked them. Facts would be the NCAA asked if the tribes in North Dakota were OK with it and Standing Rock did not indicate it was. These are the facts.

Other facts would be the tone of so many of the arguments about the nickname that carry slurs against Native Amwericans.

Finally, it's really a sad commentary on the state of North Dakota that their sole source of pride is a hockey team made up almost exclusively of Canadians who wear a Native American logo on their jersey.