Gill net found on Winnie with rotten fish!

[Fishbitten]

I think we have to quit using natives colectively here. There are plenty of respondsible natives harvesting natural resources for sustenace, lest we forget. How many stories of poaching have been in the news lately of people from all ethnic back grounds. Bottom line stop the stinking poaching not respondsible harvesting by natives.

[musky hunter]

Keep showing those pictures to the media. The more the problem is aired, the greater chance there is of something being done. Even if Native Americans can gill net the lake, they don't need the bad publicity. Will they punish the irresponsible party? I don't know.

[windsurferlawman]

Who is PERM?

I am not trying to sound like a racist here, because nothing could be further from the truth! I am just so fed up with this stuff that I think the time to act is now.

If we let the tribal authorities handle this, nothing will happen. Do you think the tribal authorities want any bad publicity?

Michael

[huskiesplayer15]

STOP THE POACHING? WHAT DOES THIS LOOK LIKE TO YOU? YOU HAVE TO BE KIDDING ME.
DavidH- I am sorry and I did fly off the handle, but this in no different then poaching. and as far as paying for your licenses and vehicle tabs, thats great, and I thank you, but drive up to mcgregor and see all the tax exempts plates sitting around town. Or have you ever been out on a lake and have six or seven native americans start banging on your fishhouse telling you to get off their land? I have I am sorry that I have had all bad experiences with native americans. So I am sorry for stating my opinion, and I hope this drama blows over like every other forum topic. Sorry again.
Best Fishes
CHRIS

[This message has been edited by huskiesplayer15 (edited 06-16-2004).]

[DavidH]

quote:

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huskiesplayer15

wrote

STOP THE POACHING? WHAT DOES THIS LOOK LIKE TO YOU? YOU HAVE TO BE KIDDING ME. I'M SORRY, BUT WE (MEANING TAX PAYERS) BEND OVER BACKWARDS TO HELP MINORITIES OF ALL DIFFERENT COLORS, DOES ANYONE REMEMBER WHEN WE BUILT ALL OF THE HOUSES FOR THEM ON MILLE LACS? WHAT HAPPENED? WHEN THEY HAD THEIR HEAT TURNED OFF, THEY BUILT FIRES ON THE FLOOR, THEY WERE THE MOST RUN-DOWN PIECES OF **** AFTER ONLY A YEAR, THAT IS THE RESPECT WE GET FOR BUILDING THEM HOUSES? AS FAR AS CASINOS GO, ISNT THAT ENOUGH SUSTENANCE LOOK AT EVERYTHING THEY GET FOR FREE, THEY DONT HAVE TO PAY FOR LICENSES, VEHICLE TABS, THEY DONT HAVE TO PAY TAXES. WHEN WILL WE CATCH A BREAK?

BEST FISHES

CHRIS

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Man...your post offends me to no end. Grab a brain and get a clue.

I am Native American. I pay taxes. I paid for a fishing license. I pay for EVERYTHING that you do. EVERYTHING!

You say you bend over backwards to pay for *me*???

Screw you for lumping all races and all people of said races into one pile. You disgust me.

One last thing. Turn your caps lock off you *****. You look like an *****.

[ChuckN]

I have been on Winni for years and I have seen this year after year. I've found piles of dead fish in the road ditches, that included huge muskies, northerns, etc..

I recall the first time I heard of this was about 15+ years ago when my friend's dad reported a net he found that was full of rotten fish. Nothing was done and the CO said he couldn't do anything. I've reported it in the past, got the same answer by the CO. Now there's tribal officers and all they can do is send a referral to the tribe. Who knows if anything is done, doesn't look good...

[ozzy]

I know this post will not be around long so here goes.
Does anyone really know what happened, was there a storm that blew the net across the lake or bay???
Did the person forget???
And so on

When I was a kid I lost a basket full of fish due to the motor cutting the rope, somewhere down the line that basket had to come to the surface.
Someone was probally pretty upset with me...

I do not think we can judge until we have all tha fax...

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crazy about fishing

[Guest]

I can accept loss of fish because of a storm.

I cannot accept loss of fish because "I forgot".

[ozzy]

Big G

I agree with you I was just posting another point of view.

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crazy about fishing

[Terry Hagstrom]

I have been fishing Winnie for 39 years and guiding on it for nearly 15. I remember the days in the sixties and seventies when we would come across the same senario. Our dads in the boat would always have a fillet knife in the splash well.
I myself have come across the same scene along High Banks many times and have called the CO.
Some do check and pull as required but as many or more don't.
One more thing, Storm or not, that net should have been properly anchored or pulled in time. Nearly all of the nets I have come across have been set near the High banks, Birches landing and south. I can't recall ever seeing any along the west or north shore. I't a long ride over there. I have always seen them using a canoe.

Terry
Terry's Guide Service

[Farley]

I'm curious about how all this netting/spearing sutff works. Say you are a native american from the Mille Lacs band, can you only spear/net on Mille Lacs or can you go to any lake on any Res or can you go to any lake in the state? DaveH, I see you live in Mound wich is not on a res to my knowledge, are you allowed to spear on any lake you want or do you have to be on a res?

[DavidH]

Farley...

To my knowledge, if I fish/spear/net on non-tribal waters, I am bound by the laws of land that the lake resides. If I fish/spear/net on tribal waters, I am subject to native laws.

I cant answer your question on spearing as I have never speared nor wanted to. Nor do I net. It's the good old fishing rod for me.

[IFallsRon]

That's nasty. If a net like that was found with a commercial fisherman's tag, he'd lose his business.

[taxmancommeth]

IFallsRon - I can't agree more...

I think that IFallsRon has teh main point here. I am unhappy that the spearing and netting go on but I guess that is the law. When something like this happens and NOBODY (does not matter race, color, sex, height, weight, age) gets punished. That is when it gets me really ticked off...

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GET-ER-DONE

[Guest]

Okay, so I've read the posts and some of the yelling is over and some are PO'd--we're lucky at this point that the thread is still open.

Now, DaveH, you're a Native American and I presume you prefer to make your own life off the Res. and I respect that.

You pay your own way and abide by the same rules and laws the rest of profess to.

Can you explain (from a prespective I hope we all can appreciate) how the netting and waste by the Bands can be addressed?

You know we have no power to intercede on Soverign law (unless it becomes a federal case), so how can we Anglos work with you and other Native American's to help control the abusers?

Lastly, I agree that some of us don't understand culture issues and our differences, e.g. the housing destruction at Mille Lacs; some of us do understand so correct me if I'm off-base, but Anglos have a more materialistic way of living and Native Americans really don't care about their abodes the way we do, hence the reason why many Native Americans appear to show no regard for their housing.

It's not that they don't care for the houses "we" built, it's just that they find no value in them from a cultural standpoint?

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Chells

[rscabin]

you said it Chells

[Guest]

I would like to chime in, if ok?

I have a lot of friend who are Native Americans.

The majority of Native Americans live very strong, healthy, good lives.

The majority of Native Americans do not spear or net.

The majority of Native Americans do not abuse the resources or "burn down" their houses.

The majority of Native Americans do not live like trash.

WE "Anglos" only see or hear about the bad things.....

Unfortunately, there are many "Anglos" who do damage to our resources, through abuse and poaching. But not all of them. Here, we only hear of the "bad" things. However, in this forum and in the local "watering holes" we hear of all the "good things" us "sportsman" do.

Well, when us "good sportsman" complain about those "bad natives", you are comparing the vast "good" to a small "bad".

Yep, there is abuse and there is netting and spearing. But not everyone is poaching fish or deer and not everyone is wasting fish in nets.

Get right down to it, the majority of native Americans are saddened and embarrassed by the lack of responsibility and waste that their counterparts do.

Just like the majority of sportsman are sickened by the 67 walleyes our counterparts poached.

It is easy to complain about all indians and pile them all in one group. But it isn't the case.

Netting fish in Canada is a way of life for many. I know an indian who has a camp on a remote fly-in lake. He brings troubled kids from Fort Hope indian reservation to the camp and teaches them their heritage and trys to get them out of trouble and get them on the right track. This guy lives off the land. He nets fish year around and shoots moose year around. All his catch is transported to Fort Hope to feed the town. They need to net the lake for the food and shoot the moose to eat. He treats the lake with great respect and he monitors the moose population and carefully picks his animals that he harvest.

Unfortunately, some of the fish do go to waste at times. That is part of netting. Things go wrong, things break, weather creates havoc. However, he is very responsible about it.

I do not agree with commercial netting in Minnesota lakes, soley because of the vast amount of anglers.

But to wrap this up..........not all indians are bad and not all anglos are bad either. I would have to say that there are many more "white trash" people destroying our state than there are indians......

I'll never ever forget the story my father told me about a time he went to northern Saskacthawan (spelling???). Anyways, they went for 2 weeks on a big fly in trip for moose, goose, and fish. They had a guide all 14 days. He got to know the guide very well. They were talking about ways of life and my father made a statement of how much better they have it now, now that the anglos have "modernized" their living in his parts. The indian responded with: "sure, it is better. Before, we didn't have booze, and now we have alcoholism and the husbands beating the women because they were drunk. Before, our women and men we very close and respectful to each other. Now, the women are in the bars, cheating on their men." He didn't think that life was all that great. There was a lot more to the conversation, more than what I'll type in here. But you should get the gist. My father to this day has a lot of respect for the guy.

Again, abuse happens, but it is the minority, not the majority. And lastly the average indian is about as concerned about a few indians wasting fish, as our government is about as concerned over having a minor possession of marijuana. A minor possession of marijuana is a $50 fine. Why isn't our government cracking down on all drug users and abusers? We blame the indian community for not cracking on wasting of a few fish, yet "our" community is accepting the fact that our teenagers are abusing drugs and just slap their hands with a $50 fine.

Point is..........it goes both ways and you need to look at it with a very opened, educated mind.

Good Luck!

[Farley]

If you ask me, a $1500 fine for as many fish over the limit as some of these people are getting busted with latley is a slap on the wrist.

What does marijuana have to do with rotting fish? Our jails are crowded enough, we dont need to toss everyone with a joint in prison.

[This message has been edited by Farley (edited 06-16-2004).]

[DavidH]

Chells,

I cant say it any better than Big G- just did. That was an excellent post Big G-! Thank you.

How can the netting situation be addressed? Allow the Native Band Council and Native court to take care of the offender. If it happened on Native land, then there is nothing a non-native can do about it. I have faith that the offending person will be taken care of. The Native Council doesnt take situations like this lightly. Native people care greatly about the land and the resources that come from it. No one likes to see there be any waste.

With regards to the houses. Imagine that you were always given something all your life and you never had to work for it. You probably wouldnt have too much respect for things given to you. If you worked for it, earned it, that's a whole different story. I dont think Native people have a lack of respect for their homes. I personally take a great deal of pride in my house. I want it to look nice. Not for others...for me.

We dont know the full story behind the found net so none of us can make a judgement call on what happened, who did it and/or why it happened. You cant fault the Band for this. It is the individuals (the person with the name on the net) fault.

I dont like netting. I dont agree that it should be done. That said, netting has been a way of Native life since the beginning. Should a band be netting fish in order to feed their people, I cant find fault with that. I dont know who could find fault with it? Takes a lot of fish to feed a reservation. As long as they stay within the laws set out, while I dont like netting, I have to accept it.

[This message has been edited by DavidH (edited 06-16-2004).]

[DavidH]

Whoa...guess I missed something while I was driving home from work.

[hanson]

Chells, BigG, DavidH

Good discussion going guys! I thought this thread would be gone when I checked back. I appreciate the thought that went in to all your posts!

Thank You!

[Guest]

Dave,
You should be glad you missed it. If you want to know, email me.
Tom

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[email protected]
www.marcum.com
www.stonelegacy.com

[DavidH]

Just an FYI...

Looks like WCCO is about to have a story on the 6PM segment of the news on poachers for anyone that is interested.

*edit* Oops...put the wrong tv station in.

*second edit* It was a short segment. Still...good to see the TV stations reporting on poachers. They went into the fines poachers have to pay per certain fish over the limit. Glad they are airing things like this. Maybe it will make people think twice.

[This message has been edited by DavidH (edited 06-16-2004).]

[windsurferlawman]

Ok-

Here goes one more time. the net was in 14' or water south of Ravens Point, just out side of Sugar. There is no way in hell a storm blew it there as it was anchored by two boat anchors and the only thing he had for floats were a hilex jug and an anti freeze jug.

I have the guys name as it was written on both jugs. I am hesitent to post it on an open forum, so if you wanna know send me an email-

Michael

[WCT]

Amen Tom! There's no place for "humor" of that nature on this forum, or any other , for that matter. I know this is a topic that generates a great deal of passion but let's try to maintain a reasonable level of dignity. Ol'Sneller