Will this be repairable or will they total it??

[mixxedbagg]

STILL WAITING!!!

Called Horace Mann a BUNCH of times. The guy who is our "claims specialist" (he's a real piece of work) doesn't answer the phone....it always goes to vm and we can only wait for the call back. Except he hasn't called my wife, my insurance agency, or me back despite numerous calls from us. I tried reaching other people there, and finally got someone--and she OBVIOUSLY hates her job. She was rude to me and rude to my insurance agent. She told my agent that Horace Mann mailed us an offer on Monday. Here it is Saturday and we've received nothing. Regardless of what it is, we probably will not accept it. Here's why: the estimate of market value they sent before listed the car as a 2.4L 4 cylinder. It is actually a 2.7L 6 cylinder--so the estimate is wrong. I hope that doesn't return us to square one with these people.

I'll be glad when this is over.

[LightningBG]

In the meantime, enjoy driving that rental (not putting any miles on your own vehicle)

When my sled was totaled, they paid for the vehicle, tabs, registration fees, trail stickers, transfers, taxes, etc. It ended up being about $500 additional paid out on top of the vehicles value.

[G.J.]

Doesn't sound good. The check issuing process generally adds a few days onto the actual mailing date of whatever correspondence it is coming with. Your rental car will probably also be done if the check is included whether you accept it or not. Determine if you or your wife is better suited to deal with H M. I would point out their engine error and use it as an opportunity to e-mail your comparables to HM. The Mn department of commerce is the agency that handles complaints related to the insurance industry. You can usually call and speak with an investigator regarding your situation and get some info on what HM can and can't do and may be of help in getting your problem resolved.

[mixxedbagg]

So, after my insurance agent and I left numerous messages since my last post, I finally got a call back today from the claims specialist at Horace Mann. It's getting even worse.

He asks me if I received their offer in the mail. I tell him we haven't received any correspondence from Horace Mann at all. He tells me that the amount would not be valid anyway because they received my message that they had the wrong engine size. He tells me at this point that their valuation of the vehicle has gone from $7100 to $7300 (I'm rounding) and that their offer to me would be $7800 and I should mail them my title as soon as possible!

Now, I do not agree with their method for applying a value to the vehicle because they did not provide condition information on the cars they compared with and I don't believe the cars they used were in comparable condition to the one we had. I also don't believe we'll be able to replace the vehicle with a comparable vehicle for $7800. Regardless, I was strongly considering just bending over and taking their lowball offer to get this over with. I told the claims guy to send me the paperwork. I was careful not to say I accepted or liked anything or that I would send the title or anything that would constitute any kind of agreement.

I thought the call was pretty much over, until this guy says, "I need to inform you that we will not pay for the rental car after January 28th." WHAT!?!?!? As you can see from my previous post here, they emailed an itemized repair list and a statement of valuation, but none of those documents said there was an offer or what the amount of an offer would be. I could barely make contact with anyone. Even if there was an offer (there wasn't), it would not have been valid because they didn't even have the correct engine size of the car. We received nothing in the mail and nobody contacted us to inform us of their policy on providing rentals or to tell us that we would be on the hook for the rental after 1/28. Nothing. We were completely in the dark and unable to contact Horace Mann because they wouldn't return my calls. I explain all of this to the claims guy and he just keeps repeating himself saying that this is "how they do it". Then, he tells me they'll "work with me" and pay for the rental until 2/2!

Now, I'm LIVID. He's insisting that not only was there an offer extended to us on the 28th (despite that the email on the 29th said nothing of an offer and we never received anything in the mail), but telling me that we should have ALREADY BOUGHT ANOTHER CAR!!!!! Yes! Even though we did not have an offer, that they didn't have the correct engine size, we hadn't accepted anything, and we had no check in hand! When I pressed him, he said we should have known about what we would get and obtained a loan for that much!!! Unbelievable. It went on like this for a couple more minutes and I couldn't stay on the phone with this jerk.

So, I went to the local Horace Mann office. They were very sympathetic, but said they didn't think they could get anywhere with the company either!!!! They sent my "claims specialist's" supervisor an email and asked him to call me directly today. He emailed them back and said they review the rental issue but wouldn't called me. I called his number twice and left messages begging him to call me today, but he didn't return my calls.

So, because we didn't know if we would be on the hook for rental car charges (my wife works 6 hour shifts that would barely cover the cost of the rental in a day), she had to drive to the rental company, drop off the car before I got off work, and walk home. Now, she doesn't have transportation at all, and we're still not close to resolving the payoff. Plus, I'm expecting to receive a charge from the rental car company for a week of rental that we didn't know Horace Mann wasn't covering. Is this their way of trying to force us to accept their inadequate offer?

What a horrible company.

[jwhjr]

Wow, I can't believe the B.S. you're dealing with. I'd contact the MN Dept. of Commerce like G.J. suggested.

[Surface Tension]

I'm going to be the devils advocate here.

My first thought was you were going to be a hard customer to please.

The insurance company isn't going to let you have any leverage by racking up fees from a rental car when an offer is made or are they going to let you drag your heels.

You better check to see if there are storage fees for the car too.

If your car was so pristine then you should of had full coverage on the vehicle. Liability coverage is an indication that your willing to take the risk of total loss of the vehicle. Now that someone else if footing the bill your picky as to its replacement value.

Maybe an insurance company figures if the owner doesn't think its worth covering his car then it is an indication on value.

Take the offer then you can take your time on shopping for the best deal.

[harvey lee]

I agree with Frank on this one. I carry full coverage on everything I own.

If it is in good shape, the full coverage is well worth the premium. I realize this will also run up the premium cost abit when all is covered that well but when I have had claims, I have always come out very happy with what was paid.

[castmaster]

Well if yourfed up and ready to take it in the shorts anyway...if it was me I'd mention to the adjuster and to whoever you speak with at Horace Mann that your seeking legal representation. One of 2 things will happen, either they will decide to up there offer to a point they believe you will accept it, seeing as any legal action will cost them more $ in the long run. Or they will tell you that since you are seeking legal representation they can no longer speak directly to you. I would think at that point you would still have the option of accepting their payment.

Most times companies like that realize its in their best interest to step up and make you happy than to end up in court.

Now I'm not a litigious person by nature, but sometimes this outfits act like they can just bully the little guy into taking whatever they tell them to take. Unless one stands up for what they believe is right and fair, which few ever do, they get by with it.

[mixxedbagg]

Quote:

My first thought was you were going to be a hard customer to please.

The insurance company isn't going to let you have any leverage by racking up fees from a rental car when an offer is made or are they going to let you drag your heels.

You better check to see if there are storage fees for the car too.

If your car was so pristine then you should of had full coverage on the vehicle. Liability coverage is an indication that your willing to take the risk of total loss of the vehicle. Now that someone else if footing the bill your picky as to its replacement value.

Maybe an insurance company figures if the owner doesn't think its worth covering his car then it is an indication on value.

Take the offer then you can take your time on shopping for the best deal.

First, you're right that we should have had full coverage. It sucks, because in 17 years of driving, neither my wife nor I have ever caused an accident--why should we have to bear that expense when we drive responsibly? Regardless, we'll carry it in the future--not that the insurance company has any right to consider our insurance decisions in the valuation of the vehicle. They're supposed to replace our loss as closely as possible, not pass judgements about our decisions.

We're not hard to please, but I fail to see why my wife (who LOVED this car and has driven beaters her entire life until this one) should have to drive a vehicle of lower quality than the one we bought because SOMEONE ELSE hit us and his insurance company wants to low-ball us. Nor do I see why we should pay one dime on the rental when they never informed us about the rental policy (and I asked) nor did they tell us BEFOREHAND that they wanted to "cut us off", nor had they made an offer as of the 28th.

Here's an update. Yesterday, I called the Department of Commerce and explained all of what I have explained here. The consumer response person I spoke to told me that it's not uncommon for accident victims to be treated poorly by companies they are not a customer of. He said I had 3 valid complaints and that he would contact the company and try to find resolution. He sounded pretty serious about being able to improve the situation. He asked me to send him the statement of valuation for the vehicle. I'm waiting to hear back from him.

Not long after that, I got a call from the claim specialist at Horace Mann saying they were going to cover the rental vehicle through 2/7. I don't know if that was the result of the Department of Commerce contact or if it was a result of the messages I left for the claim specialist's supervisor about the issue. The valuation was not discussed at all.

LightningBG,

I can't see your posts. All I get are little red "picture used to be here" x's.

[LightningBG]

LightningBG,

I can't see your posts. All I get are little red "picture used to be here" x's.

Not sure why that is.

Here is what I found with a quick search.

2006, 82K miles, 6 cyl, $7495

2005, 78K miles, 4 cyl, $5989

(I'm not trying to say you should be happy with what they are giving you, just trying to make you feel better, that their may be options out there for you.)

[G.J.]

Glad to hear the commerce department was able to help you with the rental car expenses. I have never heard of someone's rental car being cut off before they received the total loss check before. I may be off on this but I think they are probably on the hook until they provide you with the offer in the form of a check provided you are occuring the expense. Have you put together any documentation of vehicles you think are comparable with your totalled one and submitted to HM or provided it to the commerce dept along with the HM evaluation they requested?

The adjuster is not going to give a higher number on your vehicle unless he has something to support the new number with. If the adjuster won't look at the comparables you've located, I doubt he is even considering changing the value they offered you. HM does not want documentation that shows their number is low so if you haven't gotten it to them yet, send it to them with a request to take your comparables into consideration. I would be sure to submit your comparables along with the HM evaluation to the commerce dept.

[DRH1175]

If you just bought the car and it is totaled you should get what you paid for it. Look on the internet for comparable cars to you yours. That is what you should get. I had my car totaled a few months ago. The process is a pain. The other driver was at fault as well in mine. I had a 2003 corolla. I had high mileage so I ended up getting much less than it was worth to me. It really kinda stinks. Even though I had high miles I babied my car. Religiosly changed to oil etc... Being you just bought the car I think it will work out well for you. I would expect you will see close to what you paid for it.

[Jeremy airjer W]

If you just bought the car and it is totaled you should get what you paid for it.

Ah no, you should get what its worth in a fair market. If you picked up a $5k car for $500 would you expect $500 if it where totaled? Switch it around you pay $5k for a car worth $500. Should the insurance company pay you $5k, NO they should not.

[DRH1175]

One other idea is to work with the at fault company. When I recently went through the same deal as you I worked with their company Am Fam. the gave me a price that I felt was not fair. I had my insurance company run it. They cam back about $800 lower. So I went with Am Fam's offer. Accidents suck do doubt about it it. Other word of advice. As far as full coverages vs liability only. My general rule is if the car is worth anything. 4k or more. Full coverage is worth it. Shop around often to get the best rates.

[Jeremy airjer W]

I agree, The poster new the risk of driving with liability on a vehicle with value. You also know the risks involved anytime you drive.

Be thankful the other driver had insurance. Count your blessings that no one was hurt. Accept a reasonable offer and move on. If you wanted more than you should have paid more. Accidents happen at any time and just because you never had one doesn't mean you never will.

I have a $500 dollar car with liability coverage only. If somebody hit me and totaled it I would probably just chuckle to myself granted nobody was hurt. I also have a much more valuable vehicle. It has full coverage. It is a necessity and I would be severely disadvantaged to be without it. The full coverage is there so I don't have to worry about it regardless of my driving history, whether or not its my fault, whether or not the other insurance company cooperates, whether or not the other guy has insurance.

You took the gamble with the liability, accept what you got.

[mixxedbagg]

They should cover the costs of putting my wife back into as similar a vehicle as possible. That's what replacing the loss is. If the overwhelming majority of vehicles of the same year, make, model, mileage, and condition are priced above $8,000 and the car books just over $8,000, then Horace Mann is trying to lowball us when they say $7300. It's that simple...they're protecting their bottom line and expecting me to either put my wife in a lesser car than what we bought and pay for, or expecting us to pay for the difference between what they're offering and the actual cost of replacement.

Should we have had full coverage? Yeah, I suppose. Since neither of us had ever been in an accident, neither of us truly realized that insurance companies could be so horrible to deal with. Were we responsible for the accident? No. Does the fact that we carried liability (all the law requires) entitle the other guy's insurance to take us for a ride? I would certainly hope you're not saying that. My complaints haven't been just the fact that they have used a questionable method to figure the market value, but also that they yanked the rental from us before making an offer and treating us like jerks and being unwilling to even return calls with basic questions. I guess THEY should be aware of the risks of treating people poorly...that some of them may reject their lowball offers and get the Dept of Commerce involved.

[LightningBG]

Here is what I found with a quick search.

2006, 82K miles, 6 cyl, $7495

2005, 78K miles, 4 cyl, $5989

I just don't see how their offer is that out of line?

[MJ1657]

How was their method of determining fair market value questionable?

Like others have said you took a gamble and tried saving some money by not having full coverage and it didn't work out. Take it as a lesson learned and move on.

[SFC]

Having full coverage, still will not change the value of the veh. or will it???

[TravP]

How was their method of determining fair market value questionable?

Like others have said you took a gamble and tried saving some money by not having full coverage and it didn't work out. Take it as a lesson learned and move on.

He was not at fault. Having liability has nothing to do with it as the other drivers insurance company is responsible.

[MJ1657]

I may be wrong but if you have full coverage it seems that your insurance is more likely to step up for you.

If I am wrong I apologize.

[TravP]

I just did some quick searches, what they are offering you is fair. Do a quick search on c list. 2005 Dodge Stratus 4dr SXT - $6295 with 62,000 miles, one owner.

[RiverFish]

He was not at fault. Having liability has nothing to do with it as the other drivers insurance company is responsible.

[TravP]

I may be wrong but if you have full coverage it seems that your insurance is more likely to step up for you.

If I am wrong I apologize.

My dad went through this same ordeal with is work van. He went through some [PoorWordUsage] but got what he deserved. They also reimbursed him for using his personal vehicle for business purposes.

[TravP]

But the what if, what if he didn't have insurance? I think the number is 10-20% of Americans do not have car insurance. Then what?

I understand your point, but in this particular case, the other driver did have insurance.