Now what do you think of the zone 3 antler restrictions

[psepuncher]

uhm...

[psepuncher]

oh yeah,, forgot what I was going to write from all the beating you guys are doing on each other, but to the

OP...

here stood a doe about 20 yards away. I put my gun up just for grins when all of a sudden a buck jumps out of the fence line and stands there broad side looking at me. Well you know what you can’t count points when there looking straight at they all line up. The rack looked big enough he should have be an 8 pointer but I couldn’t say for sure.

uh...

20 yards with a scope?

Was it mature?

Anyway,

If it's mature, It's for sure taking a dirt nap if I have a tag.

APR's aren't implemented so we can grow more points on a buck.

Although it can be a side effect of a mature buck.

I just might make this my tag line..I like it.

"These new regulations are designed to effectively manage the deer populations at goal levels and increase the proportion of mature bucks," said Lou Cornicelli, the DNR's big game program coordinator.

[John478]

I could rant on and on about this subject but I got better things to do, but I will say

To all you wall hanger guys, leave your gun at home and take a picture and hang it on your wall.

No I don’t need venison to feed my family but my family grew up on venison and they love it. I have grandkids that that request grandma cook them venison dinner for there birthday.

If you’re going to impose ARPs then give me chance to take doe. I’ll gladly let a small buck walk and take a doe.

In area 338 they gave out 150 antlers permits for the A season and 850 permits for the B season only leave a couple hundred surplus permits for B season. How is that deer management?

Oh happy thanksgiving and god bless America

[harvey lee]

This is a tough situation for the DNR also I am sure.

Some want it and some do not. So they try it in 1 area.

For me, I have went from being a buck only hunter to a doe for eating hunter. Does it bother me that some want the APR program, no.

Yes, I love to chase the bigger bucks and some years I do not hunt that hard and just whack a doe.

I have to believe that this program will work for both the rack hunter and the meat hunters. It may just be that some of the meat hunters will have to wait a few more minutes to make sure that what they are going to shoot t is large enough.

Kinda like having a doe tag and seeing a spike buck. Is that spike small enough to be tagged as a doe? Sometimes one has to just let the deer walk.

Deer hunting has moved to far from enjoying the hunt with friends to I have to shoot a deer or the season was a total lose.

I guess in the the years I have hunted both archery and gun, I did know what I shot b4 I shot it. Yes I may have shot a 8 that was a 9 due to 1 smaller sticker but I did know it was at a minimum an 8 pointer. The only deer I let walk by are the ones I don't want to shoot so this APR has no ill effects on me at all.

John, if you want a doe, apply for a doe permit and shoot one. It's not that hard to see what has a rack and what does not. No, not everyone can have a doe permit as they control the deer herd with those permits. I do not see how this APR program can stop you from applying fpor and hunting for a doe if you get a doe permit.

I never knew there was a guarantee to harvest a deer.

[John478]

Harvey I did apply for a antler less permit and did not get one. If you want ARPs then give me a chance to take a doe. Yes there are no guarantees but give me a chance.

I guess the point I was trying to get across in my original post was how hard it is to count points in the field. How many of you trophy hunters actually count points or do you just judge by the size of the rack. The buck I pasted on, I’m 90% sure was a 8 point or better but I could not say for sure

[hockeybc69]

For me, the general size of rack is my method. If I some day have to count points, thats fine by me. In addition the overall maturity of the deer. If I see a scraggy racked buck thats huge and old, thats a target as well, even if he isnt sporting the largest rack in the woods.

[surewood]

I went to outdoor news and they have a poll on the APR. Does'nt say how many people voted, but 63% supported it to 37% against.

[highlife4me]

The last time I checked we buy deer licenses not antler licenses. Why is it when fishing we keep the eater size and let the big ones go but when deer hunting we need to only harvest the biggest bucks in the woods. If everybody had to harvest a trophy then they wouldn't be trophies now would they?

[surewood]

It's not about Trophies. It's about a more mature herd. It's about our deer getting to live past six months to a year and a half.

[walleyehunter80]

Great idea. Those little antlers barely feed two and we have a family of 4 so it will take at least a 10 pt rack to fill us up.

eat pheasants ducks geese and fish, I could feed a family of 10 each year on geese alone!

[walleyehunter80]

Yes hunting is a privilege not a right just be happy you get to hunt in minnesota for deer! Its not your right to buy a license its not your right to get a shot at any deer every year.

Im so sick of people cryin about regs. grow up and do what the state tells you too.

Oh yeah I could have shot lots of deer this year but the state said I cant use a rifle in southern minnesota, maybe I should start a thread about how everyone feels about that law too?

[koonie]

The last time I checked we buy deer licenses not antler licenses. Why is it when fishing we keep the eater size and let the big ones go but when deer hunting we need to only harvest the biggest bucks in the woods. If everybody had to harvest a trophy then they wouldn't be trophies now would they?

You let the little fish go so they can grow up don't you?

[RiverRunner]

Still no problems with the new regs. I hunt zone 342. I'm definetly not a trophy hunter, but want to shoot a more mature deer. Before the regs I was leting smaller bucks go and shooting does.

One change I would make is say hunters 70 years or older can shoot any deer that comes by. Its hard for hunters this age and older to sit in a cold woods. There hunting careers are nearing an end, these guys should be allowed a pass on the APR.

I'm sure a lot of guys have problems with the new regs. But in two or three years when these bucks their seeing are nice 8, 10 or 12 pointers. And there getting oppurtunites at bigger deer I think they will change there minds.

I just hope were done with intensive harvest permits.

[psepuncher]

I went to outdoor news and they have a poll on the APR. Does'nt say how many people voted, but 63% supported it to 37% against.

How about one from the mnDNR instead.

Much less than 63% statewide support it

and Zone 3 wasn't much over 50%.

Since MNdnr is using other states to gather data and impose the restrictions, I found this from TX and agree whole heartedly with it.

What About the Kids? Why Would You Want to Restrict Our Youth From Taking a Buck of Their Choice?

So far, all indications are that youth hunters are benefiting from this regulation. A comment that we routinely hear from the experimental counties is, "My kids are finally seeing bucks when we go hunting! We sat for years without seeing any buck, but now we see numerous bucks during our hunts." Other comments from those accustomed to seeing bucks - but young ones - include, "We're actually seeing rutting activity now! Improving the age structure of this buck herd is making our hunts much more enjoyable, because we're seeing activities that you just don't see when you have such a young buck population." In fact, 70% of survey respondents (in the 6-county experimental area) in the fall of 2004 said that they enjoy hunting more now than they did prior to the experimental antler-restriction regulation! Furthermore, data from our Big Game Harvest Surveys indicate no adverse effects to youth-hunting participation.

Alot of TX also uses antler width restrictions, which I also agree with.

Counting points is a good way to just keep bagging yealings with enough points.

If we're growing deer to obtain better age structure.... you might as well grow 'em bigger.

One thing to do instead of moving the rut hunting,...

is to close public land and make it lottery for select public land during that time during firearm season. Public Land owners can keep operating under APR's.

Having public land open to lottery during the rut will ensure that our buck age structure improves and it will be attractive to most everyone. It may take awhile for people to adjust but it'll be worth it.

[96trigger]

I guess its a good thing that we are just talking about ZONE 3 then. I don't know if I would use a 50:50 pole from 2005 to prove my point. Seems like those in zone 3 are growing more favorable to it, even after its first season, where people should like it the least. Yet, somehow, people seem to be OK with it, I guess it wasn't the end of deer hunting as some expected, wierd huh?

[John478]

Here my thoughts on polls

The majority voted Obama in

Enough said

[psepuncher]

I guess its a good thing that we are just talking about ZONE 3 then. I don't know if I would use a 50:50 pole from 2005 to prove my point.

MNDNR survey

polling is conclusive up to 2009....wierd huh

[hockeybc69]

I dont get it pse.....

Your point?

[honker23]

I hunted 3B, it limited shots at does more so than limiting the harvest of a little buck. A doe in bluff country at 50+ yds sneaking through the woods got a free pass because you couldn't be sure it wasn't a 6 pointer. I also noted that many people quit making drives because 1) the guy jumping the deer couldn't tell and if the deer was running past a poster at more than 50 yds they couldn't tell. Result= fewer deer moving, fewer deer(bucks and does)harvested in our area. Oh yeah the 2 days of fog and rain didn't help much either:) In our area after the pressure they receive in the youth/land owner/bow/3A seasons they are pretty nocturnal and reluctant to get out of bed, so it was more difficult to harvest does, which is one of the goals of the restriction....long story short, I like the idea of it, but this has really changed the hunt, hopefully it does what they say it will do.

[psepuncher]

I dont get it pse.....

Your point?

antler restrictions are good for some people

Antler point restrictions {APR's} are not as good as antler width restrictions

for obtaining and sustaining long term goals of growing deer for increasing age structure while managing them for population levels to achieve deer herd health..{takes breath}

Hunter satisfaction survey in Zone 3 was near 80% before APR's....{still wierd.}

Heck it's like that from year to year.

Polling for hunting is a dynamic grapgh,

You'll always have that up and down summary.

But what I'm interested in, is answering your question. please be specific, ...

[BRULEDRIFTER]

So the next regulation we can expect from the horn porn crowd is to somehow measure a bucks antler spread before we can shoot it? You've got to be kidding me?

So how will this be done? Are we to wait until the deer is directly underneath our stand, then with our stealthy prowess, jump on their backs with a tape measure and then if it fits the "slot" we can knife it and ride it out until he drops?

You guys are sick or something, I think...

Let's just give the anti's this one and close the books on deer hunting, eh?

[surewood]

96trigger, I also have seen changes in peoples attitudes on harvesting young deer. I think it will be awhile, but slowly more and more people will see the advantages of letting them grow. Hopefully not through restrictions though. I'm all for people having a choice.

[zepman]

I hunt the 3B season and have for a long time. I'm in favor of the APR's. I know in our group at least 4 bucks have walked to hopefully see next year...they would have been dead before the APR's. I like that...and look forward to the years to come.

I'm not a trophy hunter by any means but I've let the little bucks walk for a long time...I'd just rather shoot a doe for meat than a little buck.

[sacrifisher]

I've never hunted zone 3 or any other area with an antler point restriction, and I'm not sure I would ever want to. This year while sitting in my stand in SW MN, I watched a large buck (great mass and 10-12" G 2's and G 3's) which was about 30 yards out of slug range through my 10x binoculars for about 5 minutes and I couldn't tell if it had 4 points on a side. Most likely it had brow tines so that would be point #4, but there are some mature bucks that don't have much for brow tines.

So lets say that buck WAS in range and there WERE antler point restrictions in effect. Now I've got the biggest buck I've seen in 10 yrs of hunting in my sights but I can't shoot him because I can't tell if his brow tines are 1" long.

I like to let young bucks walk to see more mature ones, but I hope I never have to pass up shooting mature bucks because they don't have enough points.

I'm pretty certain that not all bucks have the potential to put 4 points on a side regardless of their nutrition. Are these the bucks we want to be running around and breeding for 8+ years? I shot a mature 8 pointer a couple years ago that had more grey hairs than brown ones his face but his brow tines were only about 1 1/2" long. With an antler point restriction I probably wouldn't have shot for fear of the 4th point being too short.

Just curious if I'm the only one who has seen mature bucks that barely have 4 points or have less than that, even in areas where the deer are well fed.

Of course, like I said before I've never hunted SE MN so maybe they all have 10+ point potential.

[candiru]

I am against APR. But, it I think it would be better to have the regulation written so it was 3 per side, but brow tines are not counted. Then you only have to tell the difference between 2 and 3.