Trespassing Queston

[Jackpine Rob]

And then there's the fellow I know who uses a bedspring strategically placed near his dock, and firmly anchored down. Pulls it up every couple of weeks to clean off the lures. Says he hasn't had to buy a lure in years.....

Or the moron whose lure caught on the beach towel my kid was laying on - and no, he did not get his lure back. He was telling the kids to get away from the edge so they wouldn't scare the fish, but they were busy watching crayfish and didn't obey his command quickly enough. Guess he thought that gave him the "right" to scare the kids a bit. Thought the guy would keel over when my then 6 year old whipped out his pocket knife and cut the line.

The bottom line is that we all need to try a little common decency and respect for others, and not get so caught up in our "rights" that we miss the larger point. If exercising your "right" is going to make someone else uncomfortable, its a big world out there - with plenty of other water. Sometimes discretion needs to be exercised. Not to say you shouldn't stand up for your rights, but take a look and ask yourself is the other fellow has a decent point. Further, is the antagonism going to be worth it? For my part, I'm out fishing to enjoy myself - and the last thing I want is to have to deal with a bunch of nonsense.

[simcox282]

my dad used to have a place on the lake--it was great we knew every inch of that lake. I understand both sides of the argument. My only answer is tolerance goes a lot further than yelling. Some days we could not find the fish and would sk the fisherman as they came by the dock. other days we would let them know. Nobody owns nature, yet it is up to those of us who want to use to be respectful and have integrity.

[wallyH]

In response to the questions about where does public property end, my understanding has always been the ordinary high-water mark. While, I wouldn't encourage anyone to test this theory out on a lake, when trout fishing in streams, you get a little more personal with other people's private property.

While I couldn't find any regulation stating this, I did find this on a Minnesota regulations page of Definitions:

Subp. 16. Ordinary high-water mark. "Ordinary high-water
mark" means a mark delineating the highest water level which has
been maintained for a sufficient period of time to leave
evidence upon the landscape. The ordinary high-water mark is
commonly that point where the natural vegetation changes from
predominantly aquatic to predominantly terrestrial. In areas
where the ordinary high-water mark is not evident, setbacks
shall be measured from the stream bank of the following water
bodies that have permanent flow or open water: the main
channel, adjoining side channels, backwaters, and sloughs.

Wally H.

[wall eyell be]

JP Rob
You may want to let "that guy you know" that the bed spring on the bottom of the lake would be considered "illegally placed artificial structure" by the Minnesota DNR. With today's underwater cameras, it wouldn't be too hard for a suspicious fisherman who has lost just a few too many lures in that spot to lower a camera, see the bedspring and make a report to the friendly neighborhood CO.

[Guest]

"If exercising your "right" is going to make someone else uncomfortable, its a big world out there - with plenty of other water."

I'm sorry but I don't except this as a standard of "common decency" because this means the assertive squeaky wheel who may very well be in the wrong gets to make the rules. I agree that common decency is the key, but that requires both parties to understand the law, respect both sides of the story, and then to "stay within their lanes." The problem comes in when some people refuse to do that and fly off the handle without just cause against somebody else.

When it comes to trespass law, fishing docks and boat lifts while they are unoccupied, intentionally fishing for a species out of season, angler harrasment, and a few other issues, if I am confronted by someone when I am in the right then I will be firm and will not take any dump. If the person wants to escalate a situation where I am in the right, than I will be more than happy to call in the civil authority to settle the dispute.

I don't think giving to intimidation and harrassment is an answer. If some people were not such A holes than there would not be any problem.

How hard is it to hold your tongue, be respectful and friendly instead of confrontational, and give the other person the benefit of the doubt?

[This message has been edited by Basspastor (edited 03-24-2004).]

[Guest]

I think any sane person would recognize that the Devil's Lake situation is unique and calls for a specific solution to those questions. If I were a judge, I would be inclined to tell the land owner, tough luck that was a risk you assumed by choosing to live in a lake bed. Although I think room could be made for a type of bouying off area's through a permit process. And Wake restrictions in some area's would need to be in place almost certainly.

When there is flood conditions on a MN lake, the lake can be closed to fishing altogether or they put restrictions on wakes and other actions to prevent erosion which isn't good for anyone.

[Ice9]

In many areas of the east coast land was deeded or granted under pre-Revolutionary War English law. Those laws favor landowners far more than the more recent and egalitarian American laws do (the navigable waterway and riparian freedoms we enjoy are almost unique in the world.) As a result landowners in certain situations do own the land under the water, usually the river water. Cases arose over anglers float-fishing large streams, including the James and Jackson Rivers in Virginia, where I come from. Event though these rivers are clearly navigable, and have fisheries regulated and maintained by the state, landowners who owned property on either side of the river were upheld in their right to prevent fishing in that stretch. The case of Chuck Kraft, a fishing guide I know, is a good example. Kraft used to fish the Jackson, which is a state-maintained and stocked trout stream, from a raft. He was detained by a landowner with a shotgun, arrested by Virginia Fish and Game officers, convicted of trespass, and lost the case on appeal to the Virginia Supreme Court. The case is not reviewable in federal court. The court didn't rule on what to do when a floating vessel approaches privately owned and posted land, but they suggested that anglers stop fishing and transit as soon as possible. One landowner strung barbed wire across the entire stream (it's over sixty yards across) and in another case on the James landowners on either side of the river created a barrier to boaters even though no individual owned property on both sides of the stream. Canoers from a club in Richmond damaged the barrier just to get past it--their cars were downstream--and were arrested. The case is pending. FLoods destroyed the barrier last spring. In a related event, one landowner who prosecuted paddlers and anglers had his home and outbuildings damaged in a flood and applied for and was granted federal assistance to rebuild. These cases are called King's Grant cases. Be thankful that our MN law is so clear.

Ice

[huskiesplayer15]

Great Topic, thanks for educating me too, glad to know i can go onto a dock to get my 6 inch exude worm wrapped around the pole now. Keep up great work guys.
best Fishes
Chris

[Jackpine Rob]

Basspastor: From your last two sentences, I don't you and I are that far apart.

Wall: The bedspring guy has been at it for years, and I highly doubt he will stop it - because he gets such delight and glee in his collection of "harvested" lures. His kids are long since gone - so at least no one is swimming around that thing....

[rockhardinmn]

I think there is a way to deal with anyone who may try to sit on your dock claiming that it is public once in the water . Pull it out then put it back and sit on it yourself do it fast enough and you can dump the dock jumper back into the public water

[Cliff Wagenbach]

You could also use a little reverse tactics!
Get in YOUR boat and cast LARGE daredevels at YOUR dock!
Cliff

[berfish]

I emailed the DNR on this and they told me that docks are private property and obviously the water around the docks is public.
bf

[Vickie]

Can you post the response you received from the DNR? Did you specifically ask if a person approaches from the lake/river either wading or by boat can he legally be on your dock or are they trespassing? This has been discussed here many times and the previous outcome has been that you CAN go on the dock if approached by the water.

Just trying to figure out what is right.

Thanks, Vickie

[sandman469ss]

Beerfish,

I've spoke with the DNR several times on different topics. I'll bet if you talked to 5 different people at the DNR on this topic, you'd end up with 5 different answers.

------------------
Takin it easy! & if it’s easy, I’ll take it twice!

[berfish]

Hello Matt,
Docks are considered private property. The water is public.
You can
fish right next to a dock. You can cast lures next to a dock.
But the
dock itself is private property.
good luck
jim

James Abernathy
DNR Information Consultant
500 Lafayette Rd Box 40
St Paul Mn 55155
651-296-6157
1-888-646-6367
bf

[HeavyD]

Regarding the growing lakes in NE SD and ND: Alot of the land on the northern end of Waubay Lake in NE SD is owned by my aunt's family. Yep, dem Pollacks from Grenville Once the land was flooded and became part of the lake, it was gone. Not until the waters receed will that land be able to be reclaimed. Always funny to hear the local claims to ownership and land rights discussions after a few dozen cervezas in the tavern. Just as the land is always changing, so will the laws. That is the only thing that I am certain on.

The best battle I ever had on braided line was with a 125' section of bob's wire fence. Didn't give up 'til I had the whole works in the boat.

HeavyD

[sandman469ss]

HeavyD,
I had an incredible nort on the line at Waubay last year. Got it in the net and it went right out the bottom. Dam$ hole. Estimated it at 20+ lbs. Great fish. Going back again this year.

------------------
Takin it easy! & if it’s easy, I’ll take it twice!

[G_man]

Interesting topic. Some confusing answers here. So can you cross a dock or not. If you just have hip boots on and you have to go out to 4-5' deep to walk around a dock, you don't probably want to.

[bturck]

Docks, boatlifts etc are by insurance definition conisdered private property, They fall under the category of "Appurtennet" structures, detached from the main dwelling. Coverage extends to them from the homeowners or seasonal policy. If they were public property, the extenstion of this coverage would not be available. Therefore exiting the water to access this dock for other than emergency purposes would be a violation of the Trespass Law. Bill

[Diggs]

So can you pass a dock in waders or not? I am really curious I fish from a tube in a lake that is privately owned all around except for a foot access from a public road. and someitmes I like to walk the wetside of the waters edge pulling my tube, after a hard day bassin. Some of the homeowners on my honey hole harass me, and make me get in my tube to go around their dock. So can I go right over?

[Spunky]

Diggs, Maybe you better just email the DNR with your question so you get the answer yourself. Just don't know sometimes what is right and what is wrong when reading the posts on this.

------------------
Rip sum Lips

[russ]

Private structures cannot be placed in public waters as to block or impede travel. Go over the dock if you wish and deal with the owner if it's worth it. This is what those who know told me.

[The Bronco Kid]

Royalfish,

I know exactly what you are talking about and maybe even that same SD lake. I have fished a lake in SD where there was guy that was taking pot shots with his rifle at people ice fishing on what used to be his pasture. I believe he was fined and had to serve a small amount of time in the pen. In SD once the water touches state owned land then the public has the right use that body of water. Recently the SD Game, Fish, & Parks has done this. They usually try to work with the lanowner and try to compromise on size and limit regulations for that lake. In the SD hunting handbook it shows the public right away for hunting along roads. Once the water reaches into this right away then the public can access the water. If you know of a lake that you think you can get on because it is close to a road, I would call the city or county and find out what the public right away is for that area and then make the judgment or get out the tape measure.
Take care everyone and good luck this summer

------------------
Here for all you mortgage needs!
Jess T. Kline
[email protected]

[marineman]

This is all pretty simple. A dock is private property and if you go on a dock without the owner's permission, you are trespassing. I don't think anyone putting a dock in a lake is intentionally trying to block someone's travel. The intent is not to block rather it is intended to provide a safe place to secure a boat.

[jlm]

I would think the law would be similar to fish houses in the Winter. You can't use someone else's fish house even though it is on public water. Same thing with a dock in my opinion. I am not saying I agree or not however. I would just leave the docks alone, there is too much time wasted arguing with the owners, you should be catching big ones! Good luck!