Crops Gone, deer nocturnal, meat poles empty. 5 goofy years.

[fr0sty]

Can you tell me where I can download the otter tail county deer population map?

Hey Musky,

Did you catch the harvest chart I put on the first page of this thread?

I sure hope when the numbers come out this year we dont see another downward trend.

Here is a winter population count that the DNR did via plane last winter for Ottertail county.

[Musky Buck]

Much appreciated hockey bc, wow, excellent information so 2 of my areas have a purple box right on them nearly and a yellow on the other which there were definitely more than 17 in that wintering group right behind my dads house but I realize these are estimates somewhat. I also see there's nothing near a farm I hunt that used to have a wintering herd around 50 or so, the last 3 seasons there have been 0 wintering there and they got the chart right there. The harvest totals are interesting also. I actually think the colder the weather the better chance I might have as I hunt 2 tamarac swamps that hold wintering deer, muzzleloader season coming, few if any mature bucks gunned down in the areas and remember the first 6 rifle days were pretty mild where I think, I repeat I think created less food worries etc. plus the pressure factors, plus gone crops plus a lot of variables I would imagine, the only part of that chart I can't quite figure out but maybe it's tough using a plane but the leaf river bottom area where my uncles feed the deer from January 1st on had well over 100+ deer there and using the chart it shows hang on a blue box ok, but the other side of the road has usually a few hundred or more as well and it has a 0-5 box, but that was the major wolf zone anyway charts aren't perfect and timing of the fly over.

[Musky Buck]

The tough muzzy part now for most of my areas is if the deer find a safe route to field and back and they don't get bothered, the deer numbers will build there and decrease around the areas that have no food access even if the bedding grounds are better or just as good, they'll pile up if undisturbed, it's almost like the geese coming out of town building in an unhunted field, eventually almost all the birds will attract to the same field until busted up by hunters, almost like the deer situation but they have the ability to feed after dark. Quick story for ya, lady showed me a picture of a nice 14pter, 230 dressed, heavy horns, her alarm clock went off this morning, husband said he wasn't going to go, he said hunted 11 mornings and nights with no decent buck spotted yet, all that changed about 8 this morning and he sure was kissing his wife and probably kissing her butt for jobs around the house now, he said he hunted for his whole life to get 1 like that, isn't that how it works, you definitely must put in your time to bag a true brute, lesson learned again lol. I guess I'll go again tonight, who knows, they follow there pattern not ours.

[hockeybc69]

I cant find it online anywhere. post your email address and I can send it to you.

[Musky Buck]

or should I say we help adjust their patterns lol.

[fr0sty]

I cant find it online anywhere. post your email address and I can send it to you.

gregdomeier AT gmail DOT com

[Musky Buck]

Hey frosty, muzzy could turn out to be excellent in our area, roughly 400 acres or more of standing corn to our east and west, if it's not when will it ever be ? Sounds like we'll be frozen up etc. Here's to hoping for the best for all of us down there as if we take a mature buck or 3 we can expect those to be replaced by next years crop of mature bucks, off to zone 1 right now, good conditions.

[hockeybc69]

Hoping my 3 acres of beans and 3 acres of corn is a big buffet in a couple weeks. We have absolutely nothing left standing around us, and a lot of fields got plowed before it cooled down too. So hoping the odds are in my favor.

Thought that the last 5 years though too. This year though. Thats it!

[BLACKJACK]

I bowhunt and slug hunt two different properties in zone 2/old zone 4, a little farther south of you guys, in Kandiyohi and Meeker counties. The past few years I've taken the whole first week of Nov off to bowhunt, plus the Thursday and Friday before the second season to bowhunt. On the property in Meeker County, I saw 8-10 deer every time I hunted it, both bow and slug. That property gets hunted less, and is more of a 'refuge' in the middle of farmland. On the property in Kandiyohi, where I actually live, I and others have hunted it harder. Consequently, we saw less deer as time went on. In fact, since the gun season ended, I haven't seen a deer since, not at night on the road or anytime. Before the gun season started, daily sightings were common.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'll echo what others have been saying, hunting pressure is driving the deer nocturnal. Too much pressure and the deer disapear. That Thursday and Friday before the second gun weekend used to be great bowhunting, the deer had a few days to settle down after the first weekend, they were rutting, I'd see a lot of deer. Not anymore. Now I hear a gunshot here, another one there, more trucks on the road, the deer don't settle down between the two weekends.

I also think that a lot of us are guilty of over hunting our stands, if you have 5 people climbing up and down stands morning and evening for a week straight, bumping deer on the way in and out, don't you suppose the deer will figure out that they're being hunted?

I'm curious to see how much the deer settle down by Thanksgiving, and then how they react to muzzleloaders, seems like there are lots more muzzleloader hunters nowadays, it won't surprise me to see the deer 'disappear' again.

[Shoot2Kill]

I also think that a lot of us are guilty of over hunting our stands, if you have 5 people climbing up and down stands morning and evening for a week straight, bumping deer on the way in and out, don't you suppose the deer will figure out that they're being hunted?

I'm curious to see how much the deer settle down by Thanksgiving, and then how they react to muzzleloaders, seems like there are lots more muzzleloader hunters nowadays, it won't surprise me to see the deer 'disappear' again.

Totally agree with you on overhunting stands Blackjack. It does not take them long to pattern you long before you even know they are lurking around. I don't think MZ hunters put near the pressure on them like shotgun/rifle do though, find a food source and you find the deer that time of year.

[Bear55]

I think the deer pattern us a lot more than we realize, going into and out of our stands is often the biggest giveaway. I have a few stand I like to get into extra early and let other hunters push me deer. You can often hear other hunters a long way and if I can pretty much pin point where they are, you know the deer are doing the same thing.

Lately I have really started taking my time going into my stand, go very slow, make little to no noise and really sneak in there. For me it has really helped. If you can't get in quiet, I try to shuffle in and stop for a minute or two each time to sound more like a squirrel then a human. I have been able to sneak in and setup on bedding deer that are not more than 50-60 yards away. Its a good feeling to actually hear a deer stand up out of its bed and start walking around.

[Musky Buck]

Agreed, that constant rifle pressure of zone 2 versus the old zone 4 week off and zone 2 still feels pretty new to a lot of us, so we drive less, stand more, take more days off of work and can still muzzy hunt later, yes the deer are patterning us and I can see why zone 4 was once zone 4, it worked great in the farm country, I'm not sure about all this opportunity, some areas the deer are beat down pretty good and another 16 day beating is coming not that tons of deer are shot but what typically survived rifle season hasn't really survived it yet so to speak, saw 0 last night but that is way more normal nowaday then to actually see even a fawn, but it won't stop me from trying tonight again.

[hockeybc69]

Looking at the harvest numbers steadily declining over the last 5 years in 240/411 its interesting indeed.

Are there fewer deer to shoot?

Has the constant pressure of being zone 2 become more of an educating factor to the deer?

Could the decrease be partly due to the fact we are now a managed zone, versus an intensive zone just a few years ago?

Has weather been just off enough and not conducive to deer moving?

I dont know about the rest of you guys, but I know one thing is for certain. The harvest isnt decreasing because there are less hunters afield. In our general area, there are more hunters for sure the past few years. In some parties, significant increases in hunter numbers.

[Musky Buck]

Those are all some of the things I mull over while sitting in the woods hockeybc, it's just been such a drastic change the past 5 years, hey how many years have we been in zone 2 now? You start to get the feeling this is what it is and it better happen opening day b4 the deer know it's game on, but in my area as the trucks drive across the fields to there stands they know already something is wrong b4 first light on the first day, give me my odds of seeing a deer tonight or seeing a mature buck to shoot, pretty slim to none , they get funky in parts of zone 1 as well and learned there has been a fair amount of poaching activity in the area unfortunately.

[hockeybc69]

just so happens that this was our 5th year of being in zone 2(9 day season).

I wont say that I blame the change to zone 2 for the seemingly shift in how the hunts are going, but I wont say that its not a factor that I strongly consider.

[Musky Buck]

No way really, I hear ya and can't put it on that change but boy it lines up nicely with part of the situtaion. I thought we were in the 3rd year, but crazy none the less. The DNR is aware of the poaching, but likely the poacher won't return to where he was blasting at 3:48 AM the other morning, by the time my neighbor called it in we could've drove to pick up the warden and been back before he made it, neighbor followed him quite a ways down some nasty gravels etc. we never heard back so the dude got away, wardens, they are very busy and it's unfortunate that's why many calls aren't made, they're strapped for time and need some family time and sleep as well. I sometimes wish deputies could assist during the gun seasons acting as wardens so there is more presence around, but they're likely in a tree just like us, wish they could tour more gravels between 11 PM and 6 AM during season, since 1996 I have never nor anyone living with me has ever seen a law enforcement vehicle on our gravel road and most roads in my area are gravel, very little tar around. Hope that guy shot a hole through the floorboards of his truck. Is that a bit why I likely won't c a deer tonight, they not only got or get bothered in the shooting light they are sometimes getting shined etc. and bothered while the average guy is sound asleep and boy do we sleep sound during rifle season after opening day is out of the way.

[nonteepical]

Looking at the harvest numbers steadily declining over the last 5 years in 240/411 its interesting indeed.

Are there fewer deer to shoot?

Has the constant pressure of being zone 2 become more of an educating factor to the deer?

Could the decrease be partly due to the fact we are now a managed zone, versus an intensive zone just a few years ago?

Has weather been just off enough and not conducive to deer moving?

absolutly theres less deer to shoot after an intensive harvest, thats what it's meant to do, intensivly lower the population. intensive harvest shoot up to 5 deer, managed shoot up to 2 deer per hunter.

about 6 years ago, a group of 10 hunters outside of town where i live, every one of them filled their tags the first year of intensive harvest, thats 50 deer, the next year they take about 40 last year they fill 4 tags, then stand around scratching their a$$es wondering where all the deer went.

[hockeybc69]

Thats not my point nonteep.

The point is that now we are a managed zone, so the max number of deer that can be shot is lower. You dont have people shooting 3,4,5 deer on their own tags any more.

For ease of math lets say there are 10,000 hunters in area 240. When we were intensive, we could have mathematically shot 50,000 deer.

Now that we are managed, the max deer would be 20,000 that could be shot.

So now you have people that maybe used to shoot 5 deer, well now they can only shoot 2 deer. That alone is going to be a factor in the total annual harvest.

So my point is, Are we seeing some of the harvest decline in the past few years, because there is not the option to shoot as many deer.

I know what intensive harvest is all about. So you dont have to explain that concept.

Did intensive harvest do its job? Heck yes it did.Thats why we are managed now. Thank goodness. Intensive went far too long.

[nonteepical]

but now being a managed zone, that extra doe, now takes potentally 3 deer from next seasons population so in my mind it kind of maintains/slowly grows the population level after the intensive harvest, it can't build as fast as say if they made it a lotto for does. being managed tells me the DNR is satisfied with the deer population in our zone.

[nonteepical]

So my point is, Are we seeing some of the harvest decline in the past few years, because there is not the option to shoot as many deer.

now i'm following you and i think Yes. if people can't shoot as many deer the harvest numbers stands to reason should go down.

[Musky Buck]

And some just forget the bonus tags, lets just throw them in the pile they'll be cut up before any problems could come from this, so in a way we only get to see what's registered, but that's been going on for a long time now anyway and hopefully isn't to rampant, but boy a lot of people I talk to this happens off and on in a fair amount of groups especially if the deer never have to leave the property, save that tag is common now especially with muzzy, will be curious to see if we go over 100,000 muzzy tags this year, might depend on success during rifle, then again there will be many stands occupied by guys and gals that already had a great rifle season, there's no stopping it and many have never had a muzzy kill under their belt so that would be a new experience for them, I've been muzzy since the first year of all-season tags so 2 deer in 12 years roughly, here's to hoping for a third with the musket and leave those scopes off those buggers, those pop on and off, surprisingly very accurate from what I've heard. 5 crazy years with to little deer movement have left me way too much time to overanalyze.

[candiru]

I am willing to bet that quite a few does get shot in lottery areas and get tagged with a bonus tag and registered as though they were shot in managed/intensive.

I think quite a bit of stand building/scouting goes on just the weekend,or two, before deer season. I think it may give the deer a "heads up".

[Musky Buck]

It is sad how people just never seem satisfied even if they have a great season, they must go guard their property with the muzzleloader now, can't let anyone else get that big buck that slid through the rifle crowd. I wonder if other states see as much disrespect for legal hunting as many of us do. At least 25 years ago you didn't know much of it and what you don't know doesn't sting quite as bad. To my original topic, crops gone in 3 of 4 areas and driving around those sections there isn't enough to feed a mouse, a tough winter means what ? The 1 swamp even with corn around was void of deer the past 3 winters where I looked for sheds for 25 years, could 240 see a 1 deer limit next fall, this winter may decide that, I'm preparing to provide additional feed for them already just in case it's a major struggle.

[Musky Buck]

My last zone 1 effort last night, when shooting light ended at 5:12 PM I unloaded my 30-06 for the last time, pretty breezy out of the south, was going to climb down and there was a doe and fawn coming right at me, walked past quickly, then another doe with 2 fawns, then a lone fawn who decided to fight another fawn for a minute or so, they finally got moving so I could slip down and head out undetected so in 3 nights, no legal light deer seen but was happy to see some even if it was after hours !

[Musky Buck]

Frosty, that swamp should be frozen nearly solid by muzzy opener, even the springy,boggy areas as from today on it looks like it'll make ice all day long with a high of 21 tomorrow and I saw -6 below and a -2 below for overnight temps next week getting to only 14 alledgedly for a high etc. Plenty of cold air a coming as long as the wind doesn't murder us. If by chance I luck out it will bring back old memories of what rifle used to be like in that those cold rifle seasons gutting used to feel ok on bitter cold hands. Do you guys recall the deer hunting of the past thread, I forgot to add back then we never had the extra 1/2 hour at the end of the shooting light, sundown was you were done although we know many shots rang out after that, wouldn't that be odd if it were switched back not that it ever will, but just think how light it was when you had to quit for the day especially on sunny days for us veterans, what year did that change occur ?