Shooting Skills

[96trigger]

Quote:

Just because you are shooting a smooth barrel gun does not mean your gun is not accurate with slugs. I have a winchester model 1300 20 gauge that can shoot a milk jug with open sights at 100 yards every time. A guy I hunt with also has a Mossberg 20 gauge that can do the same. Like others have said, shoot a few different kind of slugs and good accuracy is very possible even without a scope or rifled barrel.

Never said it was....... All I said was there is definite increase in accuracy and grouping, especially at longer rangers with the rifled barrel and sabot slugs. Congratulations on being such a good shot with the smoothbore though.

[Froggy4371]

Ok I lost somthing along the way here but when I said I could shoot out a 3" circle at 75 yards with 3-4 shots I was meaning that I will take 3-4 shots and remove all the remains of the circle. Not that it takes 3-4 shots to hit it. I am very confident in my shots and like someone else said I have shot A LOT of deer and very rarly do I ever have to track them or take a second shot. I have tested my gun with different slugs and know that KO's are the best for it. I also shoot a lot with all my guns and know what each of them do.

I do agree with you Trigger 96 about trying to save up for a rifled barrel. I just have to many things on the plate right now and with all my shots inside 75 yards I am not to concerned with a different barrel at this time.

Sorry for the confussion guys. Was not meant to stir the pot.

Froggy

[BoxMN]

What percentage of rifle hunters do a site in? For that matter what percentage of shotgun hunters pattern their guns?

I sighted in my rifle this year (I do shoot it every year, usually about 5-6 shots, and usually right on at 100 yards within an inch or so), and for the first time had to adjust it. After shooting about 12 rounds I was confident, not that I was perfect but that I would hit kill zone easily at 100-200 yards (was a 1 inch high and perfectly centered at 100, with overlapping holes). I am glad I did, and hit two deer dead at about 90 yards and 130 yards, heart shots. Glad I spent time sighting in and making sure it was within inches of my bullseye, otherwise I could have missed or wounded as my gun was about 4 inches left and 4 inches high before adjusting. I let somebody use it last year, not sure what happened... That won't happen again though.

Bro and I also patterned our shotguns last year, and glad we did. I will never shoot 2's from my choke/gun again, any brand of 2's was horrible pattern, any material. Now I shoot 4's if steel or 3's and 4's if heavy shot or tungsten. Killed 2 geese with 4's this year too Pattern is just really good with it. I am going to find the best BB material and load to use next year to. And heck, its fun

[96trigger]

Quote:

I do agree with you Trigger 96 about trying to save up for a rifled barrel. I just have to many things on the plate right now and with all my shots inside 75 yards I am not to concerned with a different barrel at this time.

Totally understandable, I used a smoothy forever, and I know rifled barrels aren't cheap, sometimes you can buy a new gun for the price of the barrel. My only point was that for the most part, people that have used smooth and rifled, notice the difference, and love the rifled barrels. I know there are plenty of people that are more than proficient with their smootbore barrels. I hope you don't think I was saying that your set up was wrong or inadequate by any means, that was not the intent.

[deerminator]

Speaking of rifled barrel, I bought the combo with my 870 when I got it at FF a few years back. I've actually never used it for slug gun hunting but plan to next year if I haven't got my deer by gun season, or if they open our area up from lottery to managed perhaps. But I was thinking of adding a scope as well and going to do some research.

So last night I'm running on the treadmill and watching Shooting USA. They start talking about modifying a slug gun to become the perfect deer "rifle." Perfect, I think. Then the guy says I should replace everything on the gun almost, including the following! I was like whoa, why not just buy a new gun! He also said "pistol grips may not be legal in your state." I guess I have no idea about Minnesota, nor do I need to know.

Suggested modification to 870:

Blackhawk spec ops stock with Forend

Reduces Recoil, 6 position adjustment for Length of Pull, Camo

Suggested Retail $150

Weaver 40/44 series 3 X 9 Variable Power Scope

Zeroed at 50 yards with reticule for Slug Guns

Suggested Retail $150

Weaver 870 No Gunsmith Scope Mount

Suggested Retail $25

Weaver Rings

Suggested Retail $25

Quake Industries Claw Sling

The Sling that won’t let go of your shoulder.

Suggested Retail from $24

[deerminator]

Note, I just meant I dont have the funds - or would prefer not to spend them - to try this out. Maybe the scope part but I do think its pretty cool. Also, on the show, he swapped out his smooth barrel for a rifled one. So all in all this project would cost you about $500 if you were using a smooth barrel.

[Tom7227]

I started out with an Ithaca 20 gauge smooth barrel. Couldn't hit beans with standard slugs. Bought a smooth slug barrel with iron sites and things got better - maybe a 8 inch pattern. Put on a 4 power Burris and tuned it in to 2 inches at 50 yards with Brenneke slugs. I am convinced that you need sabot slugs with a smooth barrel, and the main benefit of the scope was the light gathering capabilities that gave me enough confidence to be able to ID a target in low light. I am sure there are those that can consistently shoot a slug out of a standard shotgun barrel with no rear site. Just giving my experience.

As for the recommended mods from the TV show - B as in B, S as in S. Money tight get a barrel with iron sites and 5 boxes of various slugs and a bench rest and see what happens.

[96trigger]

Quote:

I am convinced that you need sabot slugs with a smooth barrel, and the main benefit of the scope was the light gathering capabilities that gave me enough confidence to be able to ID a target in low light.

I'm not sure how this can be true. What kind of brenneke slugs are you shooting. Can you please read the box and get back to us. Brennekes make great slugs, and they were my slug of choice when shooting a smoothbore because they had some of the best foster style slugs. Sabot slugs need the rifling in the barrel to spin the bullet and stabilize the flight for better accuracy. A smoothbore barrel needs the special wad to spin the bullet as it moves through the barrel to help stabilize the flight. I would be very surprised if you were shooting sabots in a smoothbore. I am in no way calling you a liar either. It just goes against what the products are intended for. Any chance you can let us know what brennekes you are using and/or what the box says? I know Brenneke used to make a slug that was for rifled or smoothbore barrels, but I have not shot them in years and don't know if they still make them. Last time I checked, I thought they were only making shells for either smooth bore or rifled barrels, not for both.

[Tom7227]

Trigger,

Thanks for the inquiry. I did this work probably 15 years ago and so there may well have been changes in what is available.

I did find a box however. The box has the following on it:

Rottweil Brenneke 2 3/4 Mag load 20/70. 24 g 7/8 oz

The bullet has rifling and a round tip. There is a wad attached to the back of the bullet that is about a half inch long and appears to have cardboard sandwiching some sort of felt.

I guess I don't know if it is still available but I do know that it's an incredibly accurate round out of my setup.

Tom

[96trigger]

Tom, I believe you got the old foster style brennekes. They are rifled slugs, for smoothbore barrels, they were great slugs and devastating on the deer, but they weren't sabots. A sabot will not have rifling as mentioned previously, you probably wouldn't want to shoot those slugs through a rifled barrel as it could damage the rifling in the barrel, at the very least, it would really foul the rifling. Thanks so much for responding.

[Tom7227]

Sorry for using the wrong terminology. If the foster style are no longer available what is a good replacement for a smooth bore barrel? I guess that the point I was trying to make was that there are options other than the $4 a box Federal or Remington slugs and that folks need to spend some time on a bench at a range to figure out what works in their setup.

[96trigger]

I agree with you 100% on the bench time. Foster slugs are still very available. Every major brand makes them, they just aren't sabots. I am sure you can still get similar brennekes and they won't be $4 a box. Thanks again.

[Froggy4371]

96 Trigger,

The Brenneke KO are (suppost) to work in Smooth or Rifled Barrels. Atleast that is what the box says. I just shoot them out of my Smooth Bore. I have not heard people that shoot them out of the Rifled Barrels. I do not understand how it work so not sure what the concept is.

Froggy

[Dave S]

This season you could pick up the Brennekes for as little as .99 cents a box.

I started using the original style Brennekes but switched over to Brenneke Golds once I had a rifled barrell. The differnce between two is the rifled slug has protruding rifling on the slug vs. the golds were a channeled rifling. Not sure that is the right way to describe, it's all I could come up with after a strenuous week.

I had several boxes of the Golds left over from 7 years ago when I stocked up and found out they drop like a rock after 100 yards. Could have been the age of the slug as well but they sure stil lkicked liked mule. Very accurate round within 80-100 yards.

[96trigger]

Quote:

The Brenneke KO are (suppost) to work in Smooth or Rifled Barrels. Atleast that is what the box says. I just shoot them out of my Smooth Bore. I have not heard people that shoot them out of the Rifled Barrels. I do not understand how it work so not sure what the concept is.

Yeah, I mention in a previous post that Brenneke made a slug that could shoot out of both and I didn't know if they made them anymore. I haven't looked in a couple of years. I didn't know that it was the KO's. Love the box for the KO's by the way.

[Ferny]

Here comes a runner is usually what I say after hearing a barrage after barrage. Last year on the 9th day of my season It happened. Bang X5 long ways off, Bang X5 closer, Bang X5 closer...quiet for a couple minutes. Then I heard running and there they were a buck and a doe panting and out of breath running mach 1.

Onto this years story: a young man about 16 calls up the landowner I'm hunting with. I shot a big buck at last light and he ran into your woods. They couldn't find a blood trail in the dark but he didn't want to waste a deer by not looking. Commendable. It was in the low 30's so we asked if he could wait until noon tomorrow to look? We could do the morning hunt without stinking up the woods that way. Then we'd all look for a blood trail at Noon. So there we were, all 5 of us looking for the "blood trail" We all scoured the edge of the woodline and in 30 yards. We could see tracks but no blood. We regrouped and asked him exactly where he made the shot from? Well I was down at the end of those hay bails. We got the laser rangefinder out it was only 371 yards! I've made shots like that before! And so it ended the hunt for the non existent blood trail. 30.06 trajectory -17 inches at 375 yards. We did look though.

Fortunately I hunt on private land so I haven't been strafed by these errant shots...yet.

A co-workers three ~25 year old nephews shot 12 times for a total of 2 hit does at a distance of 70 feet to 30 yards. All with rifles...very scary indeed!

The moral of the story: Hit the range and take shots your confident with. Most of us aren't Annie Oakely!

Ferny

[Ufatz]

Stuff like this makes we want to step outside and puke.

[HNTNBUX]

It does not seem to matter if it is shooting, hunting, fishing or any other sport. Some people are only willing to do what they perceive as the minimum amount of work necessary to do it. Whether it is being scent free, scouting, sighting in a gun or bow, setting stands, placing decoys, etc..., people are lazy. I find every aspect enjoyable and look forward to the work involved with every step and accept it as part of the hunt and part of the enjoyment. Heres to shooting straight and one shot kills.

[deerminator]

You're right HNTBUX, it's a frantic race to "kill" an animal by some. Make no mistake, hunting is about taking an animal in the end, otherwise I'd go on a nice walk instead. But the hunter doesn't always win and frequently doesn't when bowhunting. Some years I've been done on Sept. 29. Others I've hunted hard up until Dec. 31 without a filled tag and wondered why I didn't have a gun during slug season after a nice buck slunk by at 50 yards. Point being, people who are out to kill at all costs often take chances and very often break the rules. One guy told me, I shot the buck a little after shooting light on the last night of gun season. But if it had been an hour after, I doubt that would have stopped me. And he thought that was pretty funny!

[BobT]

Quote:

If you hunt in woods and don't shoot over 100 yards you don't need a scope for long range, so don't put any big fancy scopes on that you can't shoot with any way.

I agree with what you say Motleyman but I don't agree with this statement. The addition of a scope does not necessary only provide advantages for long range targets. They can be very beneficial in short range use as well in particular because they zoom in on the target the hunter can more accurately place the shot. In addition, the scope magnefies light and color so the target can more easily be identified. What may be a hazy view with the naked eye can be quite clear through the lense of good optics. Another advantage comes when one gets older and had to deal with the prospect of reading glasses. I for one, now require bifocals and using open sights is a pain because I can't see both sights in focus at the same time. I don't have that problem when looking through my scope.

[motley man]

Nothing against scopes as I use them on many of my guns, just saying that some folks think if it's in the cross hairs, it's down but don't check before hunting. I hunt fox & coyote and check every day I go out to make sure scope's on.

[96trigger]

First year I have every use a scope on my shotgun for deer. I will only go back to open sights if its rainy and crappy and don't want to mess with scope issues. All my shots were within 50 yards, and they were right on the money. I did make it a point to get out and shoot more with the .22 before the season so I could get used to just pulling up a gun with a scope. Also put the scope on the gun a couiple weeks before the season and made it a point to pull it up every night before the season so it felt comfortable. One thing I didnt' plan on and will make adjustments for next year is eyerelief with a heavy coat on.

I have hunted with people that have pulled the guns out the night before and went out the next morning, never firing a practice shot. Many of us go to deer camp for the comrodarie, socializing, and fun. Many of the people that pull the guns out the night before are there for the same reason. Shooting a deer is usually lower on the list than just getting together with friends and family for them. However, when an opportunity presents itself, they still make an attempt, often failing. I am not supporting this type of behavior, but I am also not going to condemn it either. Everybody's priorities are different, and I might get chastised for this comment, but I don't want to kick someone out of deer camp because they are lousy shots either. Some people are just better than others. I see this at the trap range all the time. I am a very good shot, but man, there are couple guys there that are just plain better than me.

[Tom7227]

Isn't there a difference between being a 'bad shot' and not taking the time to set up your equipment in order to be able to do it correctly? I can understand someone not being a good deer hunter but it's tough to accept that its' OK for someone to be irresponsible in the time they spend to zero in and become familiar with their firearm. Especially if it is year after year. Couple hours and $15-20 is all it takes to zero in a rifle or shotgun, probably less time than it took to watch the first half of the football game last Sunday.

[96trigger]

Yes, Tom, I agree with what you are saying, but many people on here are talking about hearing 5 shots and are making some very bold assumptions about them without knowing the person or the situation.

Also, I am the kind of guy that takes hunting very seriously. I don't know if I would call it so much irresponsible, as it is low priority. I don't agree with it, but just wanted to throw the other side out there as well.

[Ufatz]

Okay, somebody's gotta say it: a person who fires five shots at a deer is simply incompetent and should not be in the woods.

There.