Pointer

[Back2Dakota]

First I have never hunted behind a pointing dog always flushers. My lab is 11 and this is probably her last year (ok it is-hard to admit) and I was thinking about getting a pointer. I do not know much about them or how exactly hard they are to train(paying for a trained one is a possibility) I am just so green on the training that I might confuse the poor dog. I dont know what breed is a good choice. GSP's are beautiful dogs but thats about all I know. I quit hunting waterfowl in MN all together and have really started getting into the grouse up north.I go to SD a few times a year for upland. I still waterfowl in SD,ND but it is always with my bro who has 2 labs. I love my lab but really think it would be fun to hunt with a pointer. Thoughts? Advice?

[Ryan_V]

I have always had GSP's. They are wonderful, well mannered all around dogs. My first one was a house dog. They love to socialize and do well in a family setting. My last couple have been outdoor dogs. I've only trained a couple myself, and if the instinct and drive are there, it is not difficult at all. I'm sure gspman will chime in and his info will be invaluable. I'm just a "weekend hunter" who can't afford to have a dog trained professionally and work with them myself. I always say you can't go wrong with a shorthair. For the type of hunting I do, just pheasant, and I'm not hardcore, my dogs have always served me well.

[gspman]

If you are going to be a hardcore grouse hunter I think you need to hunt that dog almost exclusively on grouse until it figures it out. Training wise you want to stop that dog the instant it hits bird scent. If it roads in trying to zero in on the bird, if it's a grouse it'll flush. Grouse just don't put up with a dog roading in on them. Many breeds will work on grouse but you need one that hunts with a high head. None of that nose to the ground garbage. That's pretty much true for any bird but especially true for grouse. Research all the pointing breeds you are interested in. Research hunting grouse behind pointing dogs. Read Burton Spiller, William H. Foster, Ted Lundrigan and Don L. Johnson. You will learn a lot from those books. Most folks will point you (pun intended) at setters and english pointers but really any good high headed pointer can do it. It takes time, experience and a lot of grouse to make a grouse dog.

[setterguy]

^What he said^

[870Express]

Read what you will, decide once you get closer and then let us try to help you. What are you looking for in a dog?

[Back2Dakota]

Ok..be more clear of myself.. I hunt pheasant,sharptails and hun's hardcore (family owns "hunting" houses in SD and aunt has a ranch with over 4000 acres there also) Grouse(ruffed) I just took up in place of the watefowl and I have been doing very well on them the last few years with my old lab. Are you saying that it wont work out to well switching from grouse to pheasants? Because I start hunting ruffs as soon as I can then out to SD for opener,thanksgiving and try to make it out in Dec. And I go back after ruffs after muzzie season. In SD I do not hunt any corn cant stand it wont do it. I hunt crp,draws and swamps/edges. Ruffs I always say I am going into the jungle after but never do-my lab works in,forward and back to me then repeats and it works great I just thought it would be "fun" to hunt behind a pointer for a change. I dont know a single person with one. Its just a thought right now I never make split decisions and like to get as much info and I knew a few of you guys have some good dogs on here.

[2thepointsetters]

From your description you might want to look into a setter. If your in North East MN this fall and want to hunt grouse behind a setter let me know.

[Back2Dakota]

Ok....I need to do some research. I know some names of setters but don't know their pro's and con's between them.

I wish I could get up to the NE. Friends are up by Lutsen-good year!!

[TylerS]

Kind of sounds like you're looking for a versatile breed. The North American Versatile Hunting Dog Association would be a good thing to look into. That's where I went when I decided to look for a dog breed. I settled on a German wirehaired pointer, but that's because I had relatives who've owned them, and there was a reputable breeder close by. Do some research, talk to people, or better yet, talk to breeders. They can answer any questions you may have. Once you have all the info you need, compare notes and go from there.

I'd say go with a GWP, but I'm obviously biased, so take that with a grain of salt

[Back2Dakota]

Kind of sounds like you're looking for a versatile breed. The North American Versatile Hunting Dog Association would be a good thing to look into. That's where I went when I decided to look for a dog breed. I settled on a German wirehaired pointer, but that's because I had relatives who've owned them, and there was a reputable breeder close by. Do some research, talk to people, or better yet, talk to breeders. They can answer any questions you may have. Once you have all the info you need, compare notes and go from there.

I'd say go with a GWP, but I'm obviously biased, so take that with a grain of salt

I did look at those and like them alot. Wife's friend at work has one she hunts and she invited me to go hunting with her on her families farm. Soon as we find some time!

[setterguy]

I guess that would be my suggestion is to hunt with as many different types of dogs on as many types of game as possible and see what you like. GSPman is right when he says you need an air scenting pointer, not a ground scenter if you are going to do any kind of serious ruffed grouse hunting.

[TylerS]

Is air-scenting or ground-scenting a breed trait? My dog does both, depending on the situation. At home when I hid dummies, he's more of a ground scenter, but when we're out in the field his head is held high most of the time.

[setterguy]

I will give you some facts. Some might agree and some might disagree, but there is hundreds of years of genetics behind this information. The two original "pointing" breeds were All setters and English pointers. All other pointing breeds were derived from hounds. Shorthairs, brittnays, Wirehairs, Vizsla ect. These breeds were bred to do multiple tasks, track game, retrieve and so forth. Setters, Pointers and now GSP's (because almost all american GSP's have some English pointer in them) Were bred to scent the air. Other "versatile breeds" were bred to take scent from the ground. Do some of these breeds air scent, absolutely. Its just not how they were originally designed.

Air scenting is vitaly important when hunting birds that don't take pressure because they can be located from a greater distance. However you do lose some tracking ability with downed birds.

No dog does everything perfect. They simply weren't designed that way. They had a specific purpose, and when people decided they wanted a dog to do multiple things, they breed two dogs that did seperate things well. While you got some of the good traits of both dogs, there had to be concessions as to what downfalls each breed would have.

[JJK]

Agreed, versatile breeds do it all that's what they're bread for. I chose a German Wirehair because I'll hunt a few different upland birds and waterfowl. His tracking instinct keeps his nose to the ground more than air scenting. But he does air scent and maybe over time he'll do it more. He is pretty sharp as well and really gets amped over fur. IMO not a good trait for a bird dog. He is a good dog, very mellow, great in house, with kids, loves people and other dogs. My Wirehair has been easy to train and wants to please me. I'm satisfied, and my family loves him. And so far I've enjoyed my limited exposure to NAVHDA.

[2thepointsetters]

No dog does everything perfect.quote]

An english setter is not the perfect dog?

[setterguy]

I haven't seen one yet. But they are perfect for me!

[Ely Lake Expert]

Maybe I got lucky and maybe the instinct is so bred in it doesn't matter. I got my 2 gsp's at 10 months old from people who worked a lot and the dogs rarely saw the outside of their kennel. I took them grouse hunting a week later and it was like they were trained on the bird side from day 1. They instantly knew what they were doing. All I had to train them which was done by season 2 was how to stay close and not chew on the bird. I'm pretty much hooked on gsp's for life.

[bopper4]

I have fallen in love with my GSP's. I have a 2 yr old female and a 18 month old male. They are both house dogs and require alot of exercise. I run them daily out in our field when I get home from work, if I dont it makes for a long evening. They are both rather high strung but keep each other busy. As far as hunting goes they have both done well on pheasants and ok so far on grouse. They have a personality unlike many other dogs I have been around.