Water Softeners

[Big Tom]

I'd like some feedback on water softeners. Searching "water softener" wasn't real productive.

I'm getting rid of Culligan because for the money I'm not happy with the results so I'm looking to buy a unit.

The application would be for a cabin used only on weekends. It is well water with a high iron content. I also plan to install a PUR filter on the kitchen sink for drinking water. There is also one on the fridge but it is kinda slow for cooking purposes.

A neighbor has a base Kenmore unit and his water is clear and does not have a taste.

Any feedback is appreciated.

[BobT]

Installed a Water Boss softener three years ago and have been very pleased. Easy on the wallet, easy to install, easy on salt use, and its low profile design makes it easy to load salt. Man I sound like a sales pitch, sorry.

Just make sure that whatever you get, it is sized properly for the load you'll put on it.

[Get'n Jiggy]

I bought a new "Digital" unit at HD when my house was new, it lasted about 3 years, digital clock failed. Called a repairman he said it would be cheaper to buy a new one and recomended a FleetFarm basic unit. They ain't pretty but the clock is German manufacture. That was 7 years ago, all I've done since is add salt. Culligan is one big RIP!

[BoxMN]

I also got a Water Boss when we built new cabin 2 years ago. Workig great, taking TONS of iron out.

Since you have cabin too, I have questions for others and maybe info for OP... I doubt we will have leaks, and cabin is set up for year round use. But our builder told us that the easy way to make sure we don't have catostrophic problem is to pull the fuse on the well pump when we leave. We do that in winter (even though two heat sources, and all pex plumbing excpet two copper fitting on hot water heater).

But with the water softener, I notice that it will fill with water sometimes, I am guessing when it may go to regenerate when we have the pump fuse pulled, and it only get 30 gallons of water...

Two questions - will that hurt the water softener? and is there a way to suspend the reneration when we leave?

Or maybe I should just leave the darned fuse in... Any advice is appreciated, as this is my first water softener. I do think I need to shock the well, which has been discussed many time in other threads and I need to search it out and do it right.

[FishLocker]

We had Culligan for the last 10 years and are now fed up too.

My cabin is 3 season and the water shed that houses the softener tanks is outside the cabin. We looked at purchasing again, but I do not want to take the brine tank and softener tank home every fall so they dont freeze and burst, so we are switching to EcoWater.

$65 delivery and set up fee every spring including first fill of salt...$35/Mo rental for the softener tank, iron filter and brine tank...after we close the cabin they drain the brine tank and take the whole thing back to THEIR heated storage till the next summer. More expensive in the long run, but worth paying them for the hastle of removal and safe storage.

There were a few companies that had this same process and price, but EcoWater insisted on driving out and testing our water in order to get the correct system for us...that earned our business!

.

BoxMN, there should be a bypass valve on the tank head if you want to isolate your system from the water supply for the winter. When you pull the fuse on the pump, open a hot and cold water tap to drain the pressure from the system before engaging the bypass valve so you dont trap pressure in the tank all winter. You could also unplug the electrical cord from the softener so your timing mechanism doesn't run all winter

[BoxMN]

To add a bit more, we use the cabin all winter long, so we don't ever "close" it in that sense. We just pull the fuse when we leave, so IF there ever was a leak or issue, it would only leak whatever amount is in the pressure tank.

I was just wondering if there is problem with softener if it is regenerating (using water) when all it really had access to is 30 gallons, if we have the fuse pulled. Maybe we should just nto even pull the fuse, as we don't at home when we leave, and it is basically the same. You just see some news items like when people leave in winter for a couple weeks and they have a leak, and it ruins their house, etc....

[FishLocker]

I would unplug the electric from the softener when you pull the fuse on the pump then it would not matter if it regenerated after XX gallons use or XX # of days, it stops counting. Then reset the time of day when you plug it back in so it will regenerate while you sleep as "programed". If you forget to reset the time it may decide to regenerate mid-day thinking it is mid-night...no big deal though, just reset it after regeneration. No need to bleed pressure either since you use the cabin often.

[BobT]

Do you have yours set up to cycle every 90 hours regardless of water use? They do have that feature. I have mine turned off since I use the water miser.

[BoxMN]

Hmmm, you know, I don't know I should read up on it, I still have the manual, etc. Maybe a task for this weekend after fishing

[Tom7227]

Box

Well, if the well is turned off there's still pressure in the system. Open a faucet someplace to let the pressure drop and the water softener won't do anything.

A water softener goes through a number of cycles. The first one on yours obviously is the one that puts water into the softener tank. The next stage would be to take that water - which is now a brine - and pupsh it through the resin in the softener resin tank. The next would flush that tank out with more clear water.

Best bet would probably be to pop the breaker on the softener along with the one on the well pump.

Tom

[Tom7227]

As for the original post - keep up your research. You may spend some time talking to local well drillers. They would know the quality of the water you can expect to draw from your depth and locale. Then spend some time talking to more knowledgeable softener people to see what you may need to solve the problems. A friend has a place in SW Carlton County and from everything we learned you couldn't get the horrible smell out of a shallow well in any way that was pratical. His is purely a deer hunting shack and so putting in a deep well wasn't a realistic option. You need to know what exactly your problem is before you can solve it.

[krinkle]

If your neighbor has a softener that is working just put in what he is using. If you have similar wells you should have similar water.

[BobT]

If your neighbor has a softener that is working just put in what he is using. If you have similar wells you should have similar water.

Not necessarily. If you looked down at my home from space you would see that my home and three of my neighbors form a square if you draw lines between them with me sitting on the SW corner. My water is hard and tests at about 34ppm hardness however it has virtually zero iron. I never have issues with rust. On the other hand the neighbor to the north of me has considerably softer water but he deals with a lot of iron. Same is true for the neighbor to the east. My neighbor in the opposite corner to the NE has hard water like me but also has to deal with some iron as well. These homes are about 1/4 mile apart.

I believe you can drill two wells rather close together but the water chemistry can vary. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

[FishLocker]

If you drill a second well next to the first and at the same depth, it is like taking 2 cups of water from different places in the same bucket. You are tapping the same water vein. If your first is shallow, say 50 foot sand point, and the second is 200 feet, then you will most likely be in a different vein and they will test differently after being filtered by different rock strata.

If the neighbors have iron, I would find out how deep they are before drilling. If you have no iron and are shallower than they are, they have crossed through an iron deposit which you want to avoid. Remember, if you both have 100 foot wells but their well head sits 20 feet further down hill, their depth is 120 compared to yours, and possibly in a different place in the water column. Check the county too, as they many times have geological surveys for the entire county and you can possibly avoid that iron deposit that way.

34ppm is very very hard. Be careful drinking so you dont chip a tooth! I would check into softeners that regenerate after a set number of gallons rather than so many days per week. You set a dial with the number of people in your cabin to the 34ppm mark and it will always keep you soft...even if you unplug for unoccupied times. The 2 or 3 regenerations per week type can run you out of soft water when you have company over for the weekend and then you are putting lots of hard water in your water heater till the correct day comes along again. With water that hard, you will mess up your heater very quickly with hard water scale and sediment.

Like Tom says, do lots of research, and have a couple soft water companies come test your water and recommend systems.

Good luck.

The FishLocker

[BobT]

Quote:

34ppm is very very hard. Be careful drinking so you dont chip a tooth!

Tell me about it! Without our water softner, our coffee will show a film layer of crud floating on top. You'd think it was growing.

Honestly though, I prefer the taste of the hard water. I will often use the hose in our barn to get a dring rather than go into the house. I guess I'm a little weird that way.

[BobT]

If you drill a second well next to the first and at the same depth, it is like taking 2 cups of water from different places in the same bucket. You are tapping the same water vein. If your first is shallow, say 50 foot sand point, and the second is 200 feet, then you will most likely be in a different vein and they will test differently after being filtered by different rock strata.

If the neighbors have iron, I would find out how deep they are before drilling. If you have no iron and are shallower than they are, they have crossed through an iron deposit which you want to avoid. Remember, if you both have 100 foot wells but their well head sits 20 feet further down hill, their depth is 120 compared to yours, and possibly in a different place in the water column. Check the county too, as they many times have geological surveys for the entire county and you can possibly avoid that iron deposit that way.

34ppm is very very hard. Be careful drinking so you dont chip a tooth! I would check into softeners that regenerate after a set number of gallons rather than so many days per week. You set a dial with the number of people in your cabin to the 34ppm mark and it will always keep you soft...even if you unplug for unoccupied times. The 2 or 3 regenerations per week type can run you out of soft water when you have company over for the weekend and then you are putting lots of hard water in your water heater till the correct day comes along again. With water that hard, you will mess up your heater very quickly with hard water scale and sediment.

Like Tom says, do lots of research, and have a couple soft water companies come test your water and recommend systems.

Good luck.

The FishLocker

Are you confusing me with the original poster?

[Big Tom]

Thanks everyone for the feedback so far. I think I will get the water tested. Based on the smell I have to believe some sulfur may be present as well.

[BoxMN]

The smell might just be the "iron bacteria"... not sure what exactly they are, but basically harmless, just makes the smell, at least form what I read.

Good luck!

[krinkle]

If you are looking for info on water softening try taking a look a North star softeners web site. Lots of good info on there. Some softeners do remove a certain amount of iron. NS most common units will take out 7 to 8 PPM of iron. If your iron is much worse than this you may need a iron filter with the softener.

There seems to be a couple of different versions of common iron filters on the market. One adds potassium permanganate to the resin. The other is air injection. I dont have much experience with these but from what I am hearing the air injection is the way to go. Both of these units are very similar to a typical water softener. They have a tank full of resin and regenerate.

If the culligan softener took care of the smell in the water I would think you could find a similar product and not need a iron filter.