would you buy a nearly new 2-stroke today?

[jasper60103]

Hi.

Just hoping to get some opinions from fellow Minnesotans.

I have (2) 1980's 2-stroke motors (25, 30 hp) and both have issues, and I'm a little tired of playing fix it.

I'm seeing some decent deals on HSO-Classifieds for newer 2-stroke motors.

I desire a 25-30hp tiller and really don't want the weight of a 4-stroke on my old boat. I would consider a 4-stroke 20 hp, but I'm not sure it would provide adequate performance.

So given the choice, what would you choose?

A) 25-30 hp 2-stroke, model year 2000+

new 20 hp 4-stroke

C) sell my rig (with older motors), then buy a newer rig with a 25-30 hp 4-stroke motor

Any other suggestions are welcome too.

Thanks,

jasper

[herefish101]

A or B, the four stroke of that size would be just fine, but two stroke power is proven. You'll be happy either way.

[NETim]

4 strokes are generally quieter and a little easier on fuel. 4 strokes troll wonderfully well w/o loading up. They generally lack the low end snort of a 2 stroke though.

[jasper60103]

Well, I guess need to decide how long I can tolerate my existing motors and take it from there. I wonder if they will ever ban usage of 2 stroke outboards in Minnesota lakes? Either way, 4-stroke is the way to go to reduce pollutants. Thanks for your input.

[gregg52]

i doubt they wil ban 2-strokes as the e-tec are high tec and environmently

freindly

[solbes]

Once you go from a carbed 2 stroke to an EASY starting 4 stroke, it's hard to look back. I haven't tried one of the DFI two strokes, but I would assume the satisfaction is similar to 4 strokes. The 2 stroke smoke does give me some nostalgia to my first boat, but that's where it ends.

A DFI 2S is another good option. Should get you up on plane easier than a 4 stroke.

[jeffreyd]

From an enviromental stand point, i would imagine the next round of emission provisions will some how affect off road 2 stroke engines such as lawn mowers, boat motors and such. In 2000 the state of az outlawed 2 stokes older than 96 on highways. So the detroit 2 stroke went by the wayside because of it. While i am not a boater like most of you, i have never really understood why a "hole shot" is so important? Why would you not want to bring the boat up to plane in slower manner? Just wondering.

[Capt. H (Ret.)]

I repowered my boat in 07 with a 115 hp Mercury OptiMax. This is my 3rd 2 stroke and the OptiMax is by far a much better motor than the previous ones. There is no choke and it starts everytime no matter what the temperature is. I looked hard at the 115 4 stroke and I think they are a great motor also, but, I didn't like the height of the motor. Both motors are quite and the 2 stroke is easy on gas and oil. No smoke. None of the motors I've had really troll down very slow but the Optimax doesn't seem to load up like the others did. If I were going to buy a new engine I would look at the E-Tech. You can winterize it on your last trip in the fall right in the lake. I think Mercury will follow suit shortly but I don't like having to do it the way the manual says to do it which requires taking the cover off.

Good Luck!!!

[jasper60103]

Great input, guys. Yes, I will consider E-Tec as well. I didn't realize it was 2 stroke technology. The weight sounds like it will be a better fit for my current boat. I'm not into "hole shot" or a lot speed either. It's still just a fishing boat to me. Thanks!

[gregg52]

e-tec is fairly quite

the good thing bout a planing out fast specially in a tiller is you can see where you are going

if you rig the right hp to the right boat with the e tec it will troll

long time and not load up i've trolled with mine all day and long periods at a time with no loading up at and its a 150

so i'm thinkin the smaller ones will be just fine

and ya its easy to wintize

[luckydog25]

Another big reason for a quick hole shot is if you are in shallow water, you don't want that skeg and prop down there for long...us river/shallow water fisherman want to get up on plane ASAP!! My boat only does 38-40mph because I proped it to fly out of the hole. I could get mid to upper 40s if I went to a different prop. Moral of the story...it is not a speed thing. Saftey!!

[jasper60103]

So it sounds like the consensus is to re-power with new technology since I'm looking to buy a newer motor. Guess that makes sense. Never thought about hole shot being that important. Thanks for the explanation. I won't be going over 30 mph in my tiller boat though, LOL! Thanks.

[herefish101]

Another big reason for a quick hole shot is if you are in shallow water, you don't want that skeg and prop down there for long...us river/shallow water fisherman want to get up on plane ASAP!! My boat only does 38-40mph because I proped it to fly out of the hole. I could get mid to upper 40s if I went to a different prop. Moral of the story...it is not a speed thing. Saftey!!

so when you hit that submerged rock at 30mph and your boat and motor bounce off of it sending you flying into the windshield is safer? I undrestand the reason to jump out of the hole(get on plane = shallower running) but safer? or to account for bow lift so you can see where your going. If your not paying enough attention to the other craft around you that you cant figure out when you have enough runway to get on plane, you shouldent be on the water anyway. if your boat is having plaining problems, those hydrofoil things work wonders.

[luckydog25]

Hitting a rock a 30 mph has nothing to do with hole shot...if you are not on plane at 30 mphs you have some problems. Some people argue just to argue...was just pointing out another benifet to getting on plane faster.

[Sonicrunch]

yep, go for the e-tec.

besides being direct injected and BETTER on emissions than a four stroke, an e-tec uses far less oil than a regular 2 stoke cuz it doesn't have fuel going through the crankcase washing away the oil.

[PerchJerker]

I am a huge fan of 2-stroke DFI motors, but they are mostly higher-horsepower motors than you are looking for. The Optimax doesn't come in the size you're looking for. The E-tec has a few motors in the size you're looking for but I am far from sold on those motors. In your situation I would STRONGLY suggest going with a 4-stroke.

Even though I am a fan of DFI motors, in the HP range you're looking at you're going to have many more options and IMO get better overall performance from a 4-stroke motor. I would not let the weight of the motor scare me away --- and I would make sure I got a motor big enough for the boat, so it is not underpowered.

If you are that concerned about putting a 4-stroke on your old boat, then I would take a really thorough look at your 3rd option - get rid of the old boat and motors, and go with a newer rig that will do a better job handling the 4-stroke.

Hope this helps. Good luck with whatever you decide.

[Northlander]

In this size range I would also go 4 stroke. Either Yamaha or Suzuki if you have a dealer near you. In that size range the size isnt much bigger and hole shot should be just fine. Adjust weight as needed in the boat is all.

[jeffreyd]

pretty good business article on the etec:

The two-stroke lives! : Evinrude's E - TEC engines have done the seemingly impossible; saving the air-cooled two-stroke from oblivion

Automotive Design & Production, June, 2003 by Christopher A. Sawyer

About 10 years ago, Chrysler's Joe Goulart was singing the praises of the two-stroke engine as an automotive powerplant. His dream, however, couldn't pass muster with the EPA. As a result, the automotive two-stroke engine died. Environmental concerns dogged the recreational two-stroke, as well. After years of doing nothing, the EPA set strict pollution limits for recreational vehicles (personal water craft, snowmobiles, etc.), which called into question the two-stroke's continued viability. Fortunately, no one told George Broughton, director of Engineering, Boats and Outboard Engines Div. for Bombardier Recreational Products (Sturtevant, WI). He and his team created the Evinrude E-TEC family of two-strokes; engines that are clean and darn-near worry free.

Fuel Injection That Sings

"The trick was to make an engine that would idle at 500 rpm and make 1 hp, and run 6,000 rpm and make 250 hp while meeting the emission standards," says Broughton. Part of the solution involved using a Lorentz coil. Better known as the voice coil that drives loudspeakers, a Lorentz coil is made up of a permanent magnet and coil winding, and produces a force proportional to the current applied to the coil. Which makes it perfect for devices requiring high acceleration, high frequency application, and a flat force vs. displacement output. Another big advantage is that it can push or pull, so it can be reset between injection events very quickly.

"The strength and duration of the injection pulse determine fuel droplet size," says Broughton, "which varies to meet the unique needs of an air-cooled two-stroke." At low engine speeds, small droplets offer the greatest atomization, and the most homogenous mixture. This is sprayed over the spark plug, and ignited as a stratified charge. At high speed, larger droplets are used to cool the top of the piston. (Cooling also is helped by use of a NASA-developed alloy three times stronger than conventional alloys at temperature. Broughton's team found it while searching the Internet.)

A swirl-nozzle fuel injector with 0.046-in, tangential slots is another key to clean combustion. "It's made through metal injection molding," says Broughton, "and starts as a piece about three or four times bigger than the final product. Then it's shrunk to size in an oven like a new pair of blue jeans in the dryer." The fuel rail is pressurized to 30 psi, and the Lorentz coil amplifies this to 600 psi (1,000 psi is possible, but as yet unnecessary) under wide-open throttle conditions.

No Battery, Plenty of Spark

The E-TEC's electrical system is based around a magneto -- like a Model T -- for a simple reason: recreational vehicles are put into storage at the end of each season, then pulled out when the weather turns favorable. Batteries die in storage, so relying on one to drive the fuel injection system and engine controller only adds to customer frustration. "The magneto produces from 150 to 300 volts," says Broughton, "but that is reduced to 55 volts to drive the oil and fuel pumps and the fuel injectors. It's further reduced to 14.7 volts to charge the battery, if the boat has one.

Evinrude promises an E-TEC engine will start within one revolution, something most two-stroke owners will find hard to believe, especially for an engine that's been in storage. The key is the sealed injection system. Though the fuel in the gas tank may oxidize over time, no air can enter the fuel system itself. The gas stays fresh. As the flywheel starts to turn, the magneto sends current to the engine controller, which determines where the piston is, when to inject the fuel and fire the spark plug -- all inside of one revolution. At the end of three year's use, and except for greasing the lower drive unit because of its constant immersion in water, Broughton insists the only item that may need service is the spark plug. "The E-TEC is designed to go three years without any dealer interaction," he says.

Oil and Catalysts

But what if the regulations get tighter, won't two-strokes be at a disadvantage because of their propensity to burn oil? "Oil isn't a big player," says Broughton, "because the amount burned is about 1% of the total intake charge, and it never mixes with the gasoline." (The average user of a 50-hp E-TEC will go through two quarts of oil per year.) Hydrocarbons are the predominant pollutant, a portion of which are scavenged and burned in the next combustion cycle. When emission standards tighten, Broughton will be ready with a simple reduction catalyst he terms, "1970's technology." Right now, the engine is clean enough to pass California's 2008 standards.

Broughton doesn't claim E-TEC technology might have saved the automotive two-stroke, but he does suggest Detroit's obsession with preventing the lubricating oil from being burned during combustion sent them down the wrong path. "Their concentration on retaining an oil sump, oil scraper rings, and relying on plain bearings instead of roller bearings," he theorizes, "increased the amount of oil burned, which harmed emissions performance." And it may be another reason why automotive two-stroke emission performance degraded over time. "The E-Tec actually gets cleaner as it progresses through the EPA test," he says. "And we never have to worry about the potential for secondary pollution when changing the oil." Maybe not, but try selling that to the EPA when discussing emission tradeoffs.

[Chode2235]

Just bought a 2005 boat with a 2005 yamaha 2 stroke carbed 150 hp. Yes, it does sip a bit more fuel than the 4 strokes, and it is a bit louder, and a little colder.

But the motor is bullet proof. I can clean the carbs and do almost everything myself on the motor. And the price was right. The new 4 strokes and the DFI 2's are nice motors for sure, but there is a lot to be said about the simplicity and reliability of a great 2 stroke.

I am sure I will repower the boat some day with a nice Suzuki, but this motor is great.

[jasper60103]

Just bought a 2005 boat with a 2005 yamaha 2 stroke carbed 150 hp. Yes, it does sip a bit more fuel than the 4 strokes, and it is a bit louder, and a little colder.

But the motor is bullet proof. I can clean the carbs and do almost everything myself on the motor. And the price was right. The new 4 strokes and the DFI 2's are nice motors for sure, but there is a lot to be said about the simplicity and reliability of a great 2 stroke.

I am sure I will repower the boat some day with a nice Suzuki, but this motor is great.

Yea, that's why it's a tough decision. There's some good deals on fairly new carbed 2 stroke motors out there. I'm sure I would have been better off buying a newer motor from the start. As it stands now, I spend too much time troubleshooting problems instead of fishing. That has to end!

[Chode2235]

If you do any trolling, or spend lots of time at idle or low RPMs you should think about getting the 4 stroke. If you dont, look for a great deal on a 2 stroke.

My big 150 doesnt like to sit at idle for too long, it likes to run at high rpms. If I trolled more I would have a 4 stroke kicker for sure.

I wouldnt be afraid of a smaller 2 stroke at all. Especially given your weight considerations. YOu can get a lot of motor for the price and spend a lot more time on the lake.

[gregg52]

i have 150 and can troll for hrs with out it burping once

and can easly talk over it at trolling speed for

it lierally purrs..(i actually loaded it up once running!!)

about 2.5 foward on flat water

any kind of chop you almost have to goose it alittle going backwards

but remember it is a 20ft boat weighs 1850 empty

but again that speaks to the power of the e-tec's

it shoots that boat out of the water !!

no 200 4stroke is close

plus its much smaller lighter motor