Question for the guides out there...

[Scoot]

Hey guides and other fisherman,

I've got a question for you- why is it that the rivers get such little respect? Why is it that people are willing to shell out hundereds and hundreds (and hundreds) of dollars for guides on Lake of the Woods, Devils Lake, Rainy Lake, etc., but not feel it's worth it to spend money on a guide to river fish some of the rivers we have here in MN?
Case and point- I was in Scheels the other day in Fargo buying minnows and the salesman asked me where I was going. I told him down to the river (the Red). "Oh, just the river, huh? I heard a guy caught a 6 lb. walleye the other day at the North Dam- that's a dang big fish, considering he was 'just fishing in the river'". I didn't say much, but man is he misguided. Not only is he clueless, but he's a guy who has lived and worked in Fargo for at least 10 years.
Is it this lack of knowledge that leads people to not be willing to spend money on a guide for river fishing? I've fished LOW and the Rainy River religiously since I was three years old. Yet, the three biggest walleyes I've ever caught came out of the Red River and it's tribs right here around Fargo (thanks Backwater Eddy!)
Do people somehow think rivers are easier to "figure out" than lakes? Clearly, they're not. Actually, I'm 100% convinced that river fishing is a much more fickle deal than lake fishing. Hiring a guide on a river is money well spent. It saves lots of time and effort that would otherwise be blind snooping for 90+% of anglers.
So... why are people so reluctant to spend money on a fishery that consistently produces such incredible fish??? I don't get it! If people were smart, they'd be a lot more willing to pay for a guide on the rivers around here.
Scoot

[Kevin Turner]

Scoot, This is just my Opinion, not proven fact. I'm a life long die hard river rat. That being said, I believe rivers are perceived by many to be 2nd class water ways. I hear many, many times, "who would spend $17,000.00-$20,000.00 for a boat just to fish the river"? Those of us who have the rivers basically to ourselves will just have to deal with it.

[traveler]

I'm a big river fan as well, especially around opener. I listen to friends discuss which lake will be hot and just smile, knowing that my opener on my favorite river will likely be a safer bet. Weather isn't as much of a factor, less gear needed, and for my money, the fish are easier to find/figure out, especially early season. Lets just keep it quiet....

[leechlake]

I'm guilty of that perception. In my case here is my thoughts and they are probably wrong, I just want to tell you my case which may be similar to others. I have a buddy who lives in LaCrosse and he always wants me to fish walleyes with him and I've never gone. My perception is the water is filthy and a lot of the esthetics of fishing lakes isn't there. Barges and tug boats go by etc. My main thing is I have the impression, right or wrong, that the water is dirty to the point where I wouldn't keep a 2 pound walleye and eat it. I hope that answers your wonderment. The good news is clowns like me don't fish your spots on the river, maybe some day I'll be a river rat, but now I'm just a lake rat.

[garytheguide]

Thats a good questin, I think the answers have been right on ...they seem to be popular only when the folks know the fish are biting, or its just that people enjoy lakes more for whatever reason...
i giude on a nice little river up here,but I dont get alot of call for it ...everyone wants to be on the lake...I miss fishing down in red wing at times,because of the size of the fish...it maybe is that alot of people dont know how to fish a river...I dont know, but its interesting..

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garysguideservice
garytheguide.com
[email protected]
Phone: 218-744-3158

[Scoot]

Keep the replies coming, but I feel obligated to say this- why not spend the money for a chance at a monster fish? More importantly, why not spend the money at a better chance at a big fish than the "premier bodies of water" that I mentioned earlier? I don't get it?!?!?
People are missing out by not taking advantage of the guys who really know the Red.
Scoot

[Guest]

Most of our clients don't ask or don't care if the fish are biting or if they can get a trophy. They either just want to get out, or they want to learn more about fishing. I once had a guy who brought his favorite book in the boat and read it all day while we were fishing. He complained the fish kept interrupting his reading.

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Mille Lacs Guide Service
651-271-5459
www.millelacsguideservice.com

[Aquaman01]

I think rivers get a bad rap 'cause of the past pollution, and 'cause there is no tourism industry built around them. Pollution wise, correct me if I'm wrong, but the BWCA has a consumption advisory that's little better than some of the lakes in the Missy's watershed.

I think prejudice regarding river fishing and whether or not it's worthy of spending money on is ignorance based - like any other prejudice. I intend to spend money on a guide twice this year - once at Kabetogama, and once at an as-yet-undetermined river. Probably the upper Missy.

If I had the money for a new boat, I'd get a River Pro in a heart-beat. I'll give up going fast on big-water for going anywhere on this state's vast, historic and beautiful river network.

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Aquaman
<')}}}}}><{
Peace and Fishes

[DUCKJ]

90% of my(personal)spring fishing is on the river. last year i had a couple of the guys i guide with call to see how i was doing and then they brought there clients to where i was fishing. ill tell my clients if the waters they want to fish is slow and give them the choise to fish there or go to a diff spot where i know the fish are going. so far its been 60% stay and 40% say thanks for the heads up and i have never had an unhappy client making the change.
the river can be just as good if not better fishing at times. i would much rather fish the river then lake anyday(except millelacs last year). less trafic wich meens less boats to deal with.
just my 2 cents
happy hunting
duck

[Dennis Steele]

I don't know the perception people have on all rivers but I have an idea on the one I fish.The MN River in most places has muddy banks and the water clarity is poor.It has gotten a bad rap about polution too,but if you check your health advisories you will see it is no worse than a lot of very popular walley lakes in our state.I would wager that I see more wild life than guys out in the middle of some lake.Every time out I am greeted by some kind of wild life including bald eagles,hawks,turkeys,deer,beaver,mink and many other animals,and I fish in the metro area.As far as the fishing well its just plain great!I used to fish lakes but got tired of catching small fish all the time and wanted the challenge fo battling something with a little weight.
River fishing can be fairly easy when the fish are "running" or there is a bite going but it can be challenging at times.There are a lot of variables to consider.Water levels,flow,clarity and even structure can change rapidly,so being on top of what is happening on the river is important.

That was the wind up and heres the pitch.

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Minnesota River Guided Fishing
"fishhead"
[email protected]
www.mnriverguidedfishing.com

[Guest]

If I diddnt like fishing lakes so much, I'd sell my boat and buy a jet and just fish the river.
It's hard to find a more diverse environment to challenge one's fishing ability than a good river. Almost every species that swims in our waters can be found in them and just that alone makes me love the moving waters. I envy you guys who spend a lot of time on them.

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Gull Guide Service
fishingminnesota.com/gullguide
Brainerd-Mille Lacs-Willmar
Bemidji-Ottertail
N.P.A.A. # 841

[Toad]

Guess I'd have to agree with the sentiment of most of these guys. I love rivers. Given a choice, I'll take a river over most lakes any day. As a part-time guide in the Brainerd area, though, I can tell you that walleyes in lakes are now and probably always will be king. Even though during summer-- July and August-- when lake patterns get tough, most clients still wanna hit classic structure on Gull and Pelican with jigs and rigs.

Makes a guide cringe I can tell you, particularly when you know you could put a ton of fish in the boat on the nearby Miss, Crow Wing or even the Lower Pine-- you know, bring back a boatload of grining anglers. (What gems these rivers are-- smallmouths, walleyes, panfish, muskies, cats.)

Problem is, I think, is that most of the folks we guide aren't hardcore or even frequent casual anglers who spend a lot of time studying these sorts of things. At least in my neck of the woods, if any one of the way gifted guides who's called these woods home over the years could've tied into a river guiding deal, I guarantee it would've happened by now. Doesn't mean a guy can't drop a hint now and again, though, eh? But, you ever wonder where the best guides go on their days off? I know I do-- and invariably, over the years, I've learned, it's a trip to the local river.

God love those rivers.

-a friend called Toad

[This message has been edited by Toad (edited 04-21-2003).]

[Guest]

here's the reason why i think the rivers are overlooked...you set out from a river at any given point...you can already see the other side....people with a 200 hp ranger boat want to open that baby up(even though i'm a canoe person myself)....lol....they like that "appeal" of sight seeing and be able to take in the "panorama "of the whole lake....the vastness of the blue water ...great sunsets...fish jumping in the distance...you get on a smaller river during sun down and you can here(and see) a swarm of mosquitos moving along the bank toward you ready to suck you dry....usually mosquitos aren't that bad out 500 yards from shore on a open lake...i know from my experience i certainly realize that rivers are overlooked for there fish holding capabilities but i still enjoy the openess of a bigger body of water...just psychological i guess...i do occassionally canoe the rivers(love the canoe thing) (Vermillion river out of Crane lake)....just to enjoy the river experience...less people.....and...more fish species doing the river thing(i remember catching smallmouth bass largemouth.. crappies....blugills...tullibee's...northern and walleye ..all from the same spot on the Little Fork river ...just my own thoughts...yes ...the river systems are under rated....thanks sixmile jon

[Adam Adler]

Many rivers have been heavily polluted in the past, but they are getting better. I think that plays a role in the popularity of rivers.

I think a big factor in hiring a guide on a river vs. hiring a guide on the lake is the size of the system. You can go on the Rainy or the Mississippi in a john boat without too many worries, but Lake of the Woods or Lake Pepin can be a little much for a john boat. Most people can go out on the river and see where people are fishing and where the fish are being caught. For someone new to LOW, the size can be intimidating and a guide can help break down the lake for him or her.

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www.millelacsguideservice.com
Minnesota, the land of 10,000 fishing trips....

[CrappieJohn]

Years ago an old slimer told me that "if you grew up knowing how to fish a river you could also fish any lake, but knowing how to fish a lake did not mean that you could fish a river".There is an aire of intimidation to a river, I know because I have one in my back yard quite literally. When it rains hard it comes up, then drops and everything that was isn't any more....they change constantly.And years ago they took a bad rap due to pollution and turbidity. In this corner of the world today rivers are cleaner than they are downstream another two hundred miles, but are stained because of thier very nature...they are always on the go.Lake have a tendency to get rough during bad weather, lakes get downright ugly. Lakes do not generally have a strong current to deal with and sturucture is static. Unless it is rock it does not stay in one place long on a river, save for backwaters areas and they too are prone to rapid change.Anyone who wants to find a diversity of fish, a place to challenge what they think they know, should try a river. A good river guide will keep you in touch with the "chance of a lifetime" fish all through the season, not so much that he knows where they are,but because the river offers them up all through the season.I fish lakes, but I prefer rivers (Mississippi) because I can figure them out fairly quickly. Lakes take me a bit more time to learn. The people who don't fish or take the guided river excursions are really missing the boat so to speak. Personally I think that because the water in a lake stays where it is equates to safety and rivers are constantly on the go and are too much challenge for many people. Think about this...as a child,when it rained did you play in the puddles or a curbside? I was not a puddle person. Crapster

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Sure life happens- why wait

[Guest]

A puddle person Eh, I like that analogy..HA!

I guess thinking back to my pup days, puddles got a bit stagnant for me too. I was quick to grab a stick and start connecting them with rivers.

Creeks, streams, and rivers have always been the true draw for me. The concentration of wildlife and the diversity of habitas makes it home for me. You just never know what you may see, or learn, hanging on rivers.

My motto for some years now has been "Change is good", rivers taught me this. You can see dramatic changes 4-5 times in one day. So for all things, you need to go with the flow. I seldom fish a lake anymore, unless there is a river system connected to it.

I have been on a crusade over the past 12 years to try to change peoples misconceptions about rivers. Some see them as just a place to harvest all you can. They think the fish all just come from somewhere else. Others frequently see only a limited resource, mostly due to lack of experience on the systems. The last group are the hardest to influence, and the most critical to try too educate. This group see rivers are a dump, a garbage can for modern man. The "Out of sight out of mind" type who may never get the big picture, or ever wish too. This group thankfully are shrinking in numbers.

I see education as the key to protect and promote our rivers and there associated bio-systems. Most of our modern flooding problems are due to people messing up perfectly good systems and turning them into shoots. Removing sub drainages and channelizing the creeks and rivers tell they are non-sustainable resources for fish and wildlife. This thinking has been changing, thank God! Restoration of drainage's and rehabilitation projects have been started and show huge success.

OK-OK...Don't get me started Eh. LOL I can go on and on on this forever! HA!

Rivers are a much underutilized resource and with education people will quickly see the true beauty they possess. I am amazed at people who live next to a river who once taken on a trip comment, "I never knew this was so beautifully?"

I will get off my stump/deadhead now.

Enjoy!

Ed "Backwater Eddy" Carlson

[email protected]

><,sUMo,>

[This message has been edited by Backwater Eddy (edited 04-21-2003).]

[pikehunter]

I've become a river rat for a simpler reason than most: I don't have a boat. And for someone that loves to target big Walleye, it's simply my best bet.
The same river stigma is battled down here (southern MN) and I think it has a lot to do with the perception that it's so dirty.
Yes, it is polluted, but I was surprised a couple years ago to read that there are several northern lakes considered more polluted than my stretch of the MN River. Read the fish consumption advisory issued by the DNR (it's available through their Web site) and you'll find that river fish are as safe to eat as those that come from many lakes. Of course, if your keeping the big ones to eat, they're a little more un-safe. Not only because of pollution, but because you might see the rath of some of us who would rather see them put back.

[MuleSkinner]

When I first got my boat 7 years ago, thought I would learn the Mississippi from Sartell north. But one time I had my three kids in the boat, going wide open, and hit a submerged huge log floating down middle of river under the surface. We are all poor swimmers, and scared the bejeezer out of me. So I switched to lakes since. Sounds like I should work on the river again...?

Question. I saw a loon two days ago on the Mississippi. I don't recall seeing them before. Are there loons regularly on the Mississippi? I thought loons prefer "clean" water, or at least "healthy" waters. Never have seen them on other "river" lakes like Big Stone, Missouri, etc...adds credence to most of what you guys are saying.

[CrappieJohn]

Mule... Loons are poor fliers and need to rest frequently. They are going thru the area now on thier northern migration, but you are right...they prefer a clean house. Crapster

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Sure life happens- why wait

[Jim W]

If you note the pic on the main page, my smile should tell ya quite a bit. However, it would be just as big on a lake with a fish like that.
However, my chances for a fish like that(to me) are heightened on the Mighty Miss!

A river mirrors life more directly than a lake.

Keep the rods bendin'!!!

Jim W

[Terry Hagstrom]

Here's my two cents worth,
I have always fished the lakes and a few years ago met a Jim (Borderwater guide service) that persuaded me to give it a try. What a treat! On mnay days were I know the lakes would be slow I have done very well on the river.

I don't want to come across cocky or anything but it almost seems easier for me to help my clients put fish in the boat on the river in some cases. Especially in July and August. Plus the fun part is that you never really know what your gonn catch when leaving the dock.

Last Fall I boated a 46" Gar, what an ugly thing that was, earlier a mid twenties cat and plenty of eye's in between.

The rivers get a thumbs up from me and the clients I have pursuaded have been very thankful too.

Terry Hagstrom
Terry's Guide Service
www.fishingmn.com/terry

[LuckyFish]

I'm not so sure it is the bad press rivers get, or not. I believe that in states like Minnesota where we have "openers" for walleyes, northern,and bass. The press is mainly focused around lakes, especially around the opener. So people are geared to thinking of fishing as it equates to lakes not rivers.Even though we may have more rivers in Minnesota, it is still called the land of ten thousand lakes. I can't remember a goveners open on a river yet, though I could be wrong about that. So in closing being a recent river convert. I plan to hire a guide this year to learn more about the river I intend to fish. Then I'm going to go out and enjoy the peace and tranquility of the river for some time to come. Nobody to bump boats with once I'm on fish.....YEAH!

Lucky

[CrappieJohn]

Oh yeh...we had a Governors Opener at Red Wing a couple years back with the illustrious "Jesse" the bonehead...I mean bod, Ventura. And he caught fish! Crapster

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Sure life happens- why wait

[Yaeger Guide]

Without reading all of the responses, I would say it is because of one thing: ignorance. The river (whatever river you fish) is a different beast than a lake. It changes constantly and some do not like the extra challenge. After only a year on the Croix, I am far from an expert but the Croix takes most of my time. I believe that the rivers strike fear in some.... I am just too stupid to be scared.

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God bless,
Judd Yaeger
Yaeger Guides (Twin Cities Guides) www.yaegerweb.com/guide

[This message has been edited by Yaeger Guide (edited 04-21-2003).]

[uffdapete]

I wonder if it just isn't a matter of what we grew up with and the fact that, as far as fishable water, lakes are simply more abundant and convenient in most of the state.

I can remember fishing a river exactly 3 times in the first 10 years I fished where I grew up in the Big Stone-Traverse lakes area. There just weren't many rivers in that area to fish 30 yrs. ago.

I now live in SE MN and fish rivers and streams much more than lakes now when fishing around home. But until a couple guys took the time to show me how to fish streams I didn't take advantage of the opportunities around here.

I do see more pressure on the streams around here than I did 15 years ago, but it's still not uncommon to fish all day on a smaller stream and not see anybody.