Just want to know why??

[russ]

There's nothing like the sight of an eighteen hundred pound round bale of ditch grass with a fawn leg embedded in it. This was north of the Ag-Zone.

[Dave S]

Let's not turn this into a farmer bashing festival. They're only doing what they're allowed.

[aczr2k]

In a lot of rural areas "the farmer" pays tax right to the center of the road. Yes that is a true statement, it isn't until recently that the counties have been buying land from the farmers to redo/update roads. This should not be a farmer bashing affair, this is your tax dollars at work with an over zealous state DNR. We "the farmer" didn't make the law.

[leroy77]

sorry, i didnt mean to start a big us vs. them i just dont understand why i cant ride in the ditches

[Dave S]

In a lot of rural areas "the farmer" pays tax right to the center of the road. Yes that is a true statement, it isn't until recently that the counties have been buying land from the farmers to redo/update roads. This should not be a farmer bashing affair, this is your tax dollars at work with an over zealous state DNR. We "the farmer" didn't make the law.

This is true. There are still areas where the property owners do own to the center of the road. Which menas of course, if you ride in this particular portion of the ditch, regardless of time of year, you're trespassing.

[Dave S]

sorry, i didnt mean to start a big us vs. them i just dont understand why i cant ride in the ditches

To protect nesting wildlife.

It does seem to be a double standard when you consider others mow the ditch, not just farmers. But when a person looks at all of the controversy surrounding ATVs these days, who can we really blame for tighter restrictions?

There are many areas in the state where only a few who feel overly entitled, use the dithces as their own mudding paradise. Put that into the public/non-ridng public spotlight and guess what happens. The cost to repair this damage is astronomical as well.

[LightningBG]

i have lived on a farm for 16 years there bud...and have studied soil conservation for 2 years. cash crops like bean and corn dont really do squat for wildlife from december till july.. at least where i live its tile every thing in sight, run those tiles into small lakes, polute water, bail it just so you look cool, cut down an acre of trees to gain a little bit of land, till up wildlife managment areas, and plow within inches of a telephone pole weLL WITHIN road right of way.. still think its fair? i dont.. the only farmers that are somewhat respectfull to the natural eco systems are the grass farmers.. if they can mow it we should be able to ride in it after mowing.. ill add a cherry to the cake. have you ever seen a DNR trucks with the dont mow or burn ditches till AUG 1 painting on the back or something?

You sound like you're a part of the group you're bashing.

How about this. When a farmer mows the ditch, its a slow process that happens once every ???? 4 weeks or less often. The tractors move slow and are loud, giving birds and other wildlife a chance to move. (yes, i know eggs and baby's might not be able to move, but at least some of the animals have a chance) ATV's on the other had move quickly, would be there up to daily or more, are not as loud to give warning, but are loud enough that if they were buzzing past your nest everyday, you'd look for another place to live, in an already limited area.

[Big Dave2]

How about this. When a farmer mows the ditch, its a slow process that happens once every ???? 4 weeks or less often. The tractors move slow and are loud, giving birds and other wildlife a chance to move. (yes, i know eggs and baby's might not be able to move, but at least some of the animals have a chance) ATV's on the other had move quickly, would be there up to daily or more, are not as loud to give warning, but are loud enough that if they were buzzing past your nest everyday, you'd look for another place to live, in an already limited area.

Yes but when the farmer or homeowner gets done mowing the ditch there is no more habitat. The animals who were living there are now FORCED to find another place to live because the habitat is gone. And when it is the homeowner cutting the ditch to make it look like an extension of thier lawn, there never is habitat in that location to begin with.

I like the idea of leaving these areas alone for habitat purposes but then it should be left alone by everyone.

[BobT]

Quote:

To protect nesting wildlife.

Maybe this is different in other areas but in my opinion, which is based on my personal experience with my own farm, this is a big bunch of huey. In the 20 years that I've operated my farm I can tell you with absolute certainty that I have never found a bird nest in my road ditches. These birds are not nesting in the road ditches because there is too much activity from the road and the ditch does not provide enough protective cover from other predators. Where I do find a lot of bird nests is in my hay and grain fields and it is not uncommon to find hens with chicks when I cut my hay. Unfortunately, I need the hay and to wait longer before cutting it will make the hay too course and reduce the food value too much to be of any use for me.

I'm sorry but I didn't begin farming to provide habitat for pheasants, I began farming to provide food for our livestock and some of the raw ingredients you all need to make your dinner, power your diesels, and other essential human needs. There are plenty of safer and better areas on my property for pheasants, deer, ducks, geese, and other non-game animals to raise their young. I know because they use them and in the process I feed them as they graze upon my crops cutting them to the ground. There are areas of my wheat you'd swear I had trimmed with my lawn mower.

As far as farmers stealing land by mowing the road ditches. My property line goes to the center of the roadways that boarder my property and therefore I pay the taxes for the land included in the right-of-way. When a farmer uses the road ditches, he is not stealing from the state; quite the contrary. Many of these road and rail right-of-ways were truly stolen from the landowners by virtue of eminent domain without due compensation. The state, county, or township decided to put in a road and the landowner had nothing to say about it. It was literally taken. Why do you think the roads are in 1-mile square blocks? They follow section lines. Farmers had little choice about where those roads would be placed. Maybe that is different today and there is some effort to compensate but the landowner doesn't have much to say about what he is paid and if anyone has a right to feel they have been stolen from it is the landowner. A farmer that is turning soil on right-of-way property is violating the law.

I measured the area of land that I pay taxes for but can't use because of road and rail right-of-way and it adds up to nearly 10 acres, which on my property is about 11%. How would you like to buy a 10-acre parcel of land, pay the taxes, but not be able to use it? I'm small time and I couldn't begin to imagine what right-of-way costs larger farmers.

Don't get me wrong. I fully understand your complaint about how farmers are allowed to drive the ditches while others can't drive an ATV but also remember there are rules involved. Just owning the land does not make you a farmer any more than driving a tractor means you are farming. The AG permit only allows you to use the ditch for farm purposes. The AG permit won't help you or a farmer if you're using the ditch illegally. I can only think of a few farm activities that would present a need for a farmer to use a road ditch and most of them are once a year activities that could be done during legal periods. The AG permit allows a farmer certain exemptions but once you exceed those boundaries the permit becomes a worthless sticker on the license holder.

The original question was not about farm permits, practices, and abuses but about why we can't ride ATVs in the ditches. I have often asked the same question and have never heard a plausible answer. Nesting habitat is a bunch of bull in my opinion and experience around here but maybe not so in other areas.

[Dave S]

Bob,

without going through and reading your entire post (short on time), I said "wildlife". This includes more than just birds. I'll be sure to come back read your post this afternoon.

[Black Bear]

Fact-----we are riding our wheelers on less land today than yesterday and we will be riding our wheelers on less land tomorrow than today. I believe something big (ATV restriction related) is going on in Cook County also.

[Dave S]

As far as farmers stealing land by mowing the road ditches. My property line goes to the center of the roadways that boarder my property and therefore I pay the taxes for the land included in the right-of-way. When a farmer uses the road ditches, he is not stealing from the state; quite the contrary.

[aczr2k]

BobT I agree.

[BobT]

Quote:

Not all land owners own the property to the center of the road. In some cases they do.

You are correct and if you read my post you would have noticed I was referring to my land and not all land.

Quote:

Is this the case in your situation? Did you purchase before or after the roads and railways went in? If your answer is purchased after, you have no complaint in your particular situation as you should've known what easements or right-of-ways crossed the property when you purhcased the land.

In my case, you are accurate. But again, if you had read my post you would notice that this time I was not referring to me in particular but "landowners."

Quote:

See my quote above. If this happened after you purhcased the property, consider it a loss to a resource and that you and many others benefit in some way from this right of way or utility that replaced your property.

I am not complaining but I ask, does that justify trespassing on my private property by hunters and ATV riders or did I buy the land with no rights of ownership?

Quote:

The AG permit allows a farmer to use the extreme right hand side of the road surface so there's no reason for a farmer to be in the ditch with an ATV. As you stated though, there are certain restrictions such as no travel on state highways.

I agree and that is why I pointed out that situations are rare that would warrant the need for a farmer to use the road ditch. Personal safety could be one of them the way some people drive down the road past my place.

[BobT]

In addition to the original question about using road ditches at all, I also have to question why it is that every time this issue is raised, it turns into a farmer bashing. Like we passed the law for our own benefit. Farmers have much better things to do than worry about ATV riding in the road ditches.

Don't forget. Who is it that provides the land to fill CRP, WHIP, CREP, FWP, GRP, and other conservation contracts and access so snowmobilers can enjoy their trails? Unless the citizens of these United States ante up to compete with grain markets, these programs will continue to decline. There isn't anyone on this site that would turn down a better offer when it comes around. Why should farmers be expected to be any different? You want to have some land for wildlife habitat and protect the road ditches? Buy mine. It's for sale at the right price. Chances are you won't be able to afford it though.

[gr8icefishinmind]

Amen to that bob!! I do feel that atv's should be able to ride if the farmers mow the ditches, but, like you say....its not the farmers fault at all!! I have never and will never be a farmer basher, but there is no reason that we cannot ride the ditches when they are being mowed down from time to time!!

[Big Dave2]

I am not complaining but I ask, does that justify trespassing on my private property by hunters and ATV riders or did I buy the land with no rights of ownership?

You may have to pay taxes to the middle of the road but that does not make it all YOUR private property. To me, you basically bought property that has easements running through it. I would think you are no more entitled to call the road ditch your private property than you are the road itself. When some one is driving down YOUR side of the road they are not on YOUR private property are they? Same as the road ditch, it is all part of the easement.

It may not be fair but it is what it is.

[Big Dave2]

Fact-----we are riding our wheelers on less land today than yesterday and we will be riding our wheelers on less land tomorrow than today. I believe something big (ATV restriction related) is going on in Cook County also.

I don't know whats going on in Cook county but there are a whole lot more ATV trails today than there were 15 years ago.

[Big Dave2]

Don't forget. Who is it that provides the land to fill CRP, WHIP, CREP, FWP, GRP, and other conservation contracts

Provides the land? I'm pretty sure farmers are still compensated for all of those programs. It's not like anyone is doing it for nothing.

[BobT]

Quote:

Provides the land? I'm pretty sure farmers are still compensated for all of those programs. It's not like anyone is doing it for nothing.

You're correct that they are not doing it for nothing. Rather than take what I say out of context perhaps you should repost what I did say. "Until the citizens of these United States ante up to compete with the grain markets, these programs will continue to decline...." If you think it is such a money making venture, I'm waiting to hear your offer for my property.

[Ryan_V]

if you do pay taxes to the center of the road, it's not different than my last house in town, I paid taxes to the road, but the city owned my sidewalk, and blvd grass and trees. yet if something happened to either, I had to take care of it.

[Big Dave2]

if you do pay taxes to the center of the road, it's not different than my last house in town, I paid taxes to the road, but the city owned my sidewalk, and blvd grass and trees. yet if something happened to either, I had to take care of it.

Yep and when it comes time to fix the street, curb, gutter, sidewalk and utilities you get hit with that too. I live on a corner lot and I just got assessed over $18,000 this year for new streets and sidewalks that EVERYONE uses.

[Big Dave2]

You're correct that they are not doing it for nothing. Rather than take what I say out of context perhaps you should repost what I did say. "Until the citizens of these United States ante up to compete with the grain markets, these programs will continue to decline...." If you think it is such a money making venture, I'm waiting to hear your offer for my property.

I never said it was a money making venture, what I said was that it is your CHOICE to enter these programs and you are compensated for them when you do so please don't make it sound like you are donating land for habitat.

[Surface Tension]

What? No one mentioned the number one reason why?

Since you asked, I will, Its the ruts and wallows ATVs make in the ditches. I won't mention bad apples. Even if we had the most consciences riders in the county, ruts are going to be unavoidable. That might not be a big deal to some but there are enough folks that think its and eye sore or worse.

Also and unfortunately because of lack of, ditches do offer habitat for wildlife.

While some farms might have untouched areas, that is not the norm. After crops are down there isn't much left.

The statement that we have more Designated ATV trails now is true. BUT we have more trails and tote roads that are being closed then created for ATVs.

In my area even with the new;y closed trails there are plenty of places to ride, for now.

The trails that got closed got torn up pretty good.

Lets just say for argument sake that all ditches were open to ATV travel.

Do you think folks would go around the mud or do you think they'd hit it?

There is a time and place to go muddling, ditches aren't one of them.

I do think that there are ROWs that could be opened up to ATV travel especially ROWs that could connect trails that are open to ATVs. Then again ownership and granting permission is another issue. There are not many landowners that'll allow ATV travel.

How many ATV clubs are knocking on doors to do just that?

[Big Dave2]

I'll trade you even up for my property.