Food for thought on Big Crappies

[waterbound]

Part of the problem with introducing species such as muskies to control panfish populations is that panfish are not a large part of a muskie's forage. The predators that predate the most on panfish are largemouth bass and flathead catfish (which also excel at controlling populations of carp and bullheads among other things) although this does vary by lake (Minnetonka has very high numbers of panfish which leads to greater predation by muskies, walleyes, etc).

[Bluegill1510]

Special regs work somewhat I think, but alot of it to me boils down to fishing pressure of over harvesting the big panfish and having not enough predator fish in the lakes ecosystem. Stocking Muskies will not control panfish populations I could of told you that and I don't have a aquatic biology degree, as skis mainly eat sucker, perch and whitefish/tullibee, richer or oily fish more so a bluegill or crappie. To me stocking Muskies is fine (use to be against it) as they do add a different component to the lake's ecosystem but I think in my own words they essentially replace "big" northern pike that are scarce or over harvested and very valuable to the lakes ecosystem as well. Waterbound hit it on the head with largemouth bass as they do help control the panfish population but northern pike and bowfin (dogfish) are huge contributors to that as well, if not contribute more of being a predator to bluegills and crappies than bass.

Am I for stricter regs on panfish? I guess it wouldn't hurt, but there are alot of lakes that get pressured year after year and constantly produce nice panfish for the frying pan. How I look at it if a lake is proposed or has a regulation on it for crappies or bluegills is 1) its holds and can produce "trophy" panfish and 2) really deters a lot of guys from fishing that lake cuz they can "only" keep 5 bluegills or crappies or whatever the reg is, and they can go down the road and catch my limit of 20. Which is fine by me, less people is always a good thing in my book when I am on the lake! But the most important thing I think and what I have had to learn over time is selective harvest, and that's really the future if people learn how to do that, educate themselves and not get greedy. As I am guilty as anyone for taking bigger panfish to eat, it was how I was taught and the motto my grandpa and dad had, but if I can change so can others! And its not that big of a deal to release a 10" bluegill.

[FutbolGuru]

Let's face it guys - Hypothetically thinking: 'if we had a system (regs, release practices, etc.) that acutally worked... And you could go catch 15 inch crappies on any lake... well then we'd all be bitc#n about how all of the inconsiderate anglers around us keep all of the 16 inchers and how trophy 18 inchers are hard to come by.'

It's human nature to want more.

Personally, I'm extatic about the fishing opportunities in our state. The DNR is doing what they can on limited budgets to continually improve our fisheries. Honestly, as hard as it might be to admit, if everybody caught the 'big one' every trip - fishing would get old fast.

[DTro]

I agree with you 100% futbolguru.

What is discouraging sometimes though is to see how better the quality of (pan)fishing is when you get out of the metro ring, and when it comes to crappies specifically, the difference is amazing.

Not sure what the root cause is. I'm sure it's a combination of pressure, and high harvest rate in the winter. But who knows....

[FutbolGuru]

Absolutely Dtro - If we could figure out how to grow big'uns in the metro... people like us would have heavier wallets with all of the 'winter weekend gas money' we'd save!

[PEATMOSS]

Originally Posted By: PEATMOSS

These threads are SO predictable.....someone starts talking big fish or big bucks, someone trots out the word "quality" and everyone falls all over themselves blurting out ideas for stricter laws, more rules,regulations, slots, restrictions...blah,blah blah!

Anyone ever heard of things like voluntary restraint and education? Yes, there are still game hogs out there, but their numbers are dwindling. The diehard greedy pigs are going to find a way around just about any reg imposed.

Does anyone EVER stop a minute and think about the consequences of all this silliness? Don't get me wrong, special regs have their place, but turning every fish that isn't a carp or bullhead into some kind of toy shouldn't be one of them.

One thing predictable about it, is there is always someone like you who thinks they have to go against the grain to pad their ego Of course I thought about the consequences, there aren't many. But the outcome of tighter regs sure wouldn't hurt.

Ouch man,

To start, if you look at my post count/join date, it should dispel the notion that I'm the kind of guy that just posts to babble and stoke my ego. If I take the time to post something, I mean it and I mean it sincerly.

One thing that gets me a little stoked is this "quality" movement and the kneejerk anti-harvest regulations so many seem to want to impose. I'm all for sound fisheries management and regulations like protecting prime breeding female walleyes with slots. I'm not for trophy management or turning fish into everyones little CPR toys.

Do some of the more accessable/popular lakes get pounded on? Sure. Move to another lake and when you find the big ones, don't tell anyone, especially my brother-in law. Now, if someone lives within an hour of a Chucky Cheese, chances are this might prove difficult, but if having excellant fishing right in your neighborhood is that important, it may be time to bear down and take that 30-50% salary hit and change neighborhoods.

Another question I would ask is, why, when folks are seeking an improvement in a fishery, is harvest restriction the only thing anyone can come up with? Why not restrict methodology? One of my favorite winter pannie lakes is located in a non-motorized area just a couple miles north of my place. The lake is not a secret and every winter it produces beautiful crappies and sunnies. Now, you gotta walk a half mile thru hilly terain to get there and gas augers are not permitted. I've always had great fishing there and never seen more anglers than I could count on one hand.

[FutbolGuru]

Agreed PeatMoss - It's the nature of fishing. You have to work for the big'uns... you're not going to find many in white bear lake in the heart the metro. Although, it'd be nice if you could!

[boatfull]

Ok. here's a good one for you. I'd like to see some one study the effect of all of the salt that goes into our lakes in the metro area from road salt. I really wonder if this kills off a lot of the zooplankton the panfish feed on. Maybe its not all related to overharvest. Just a thought!

[Scott M]

Ok. here's a good one for you. I'd like to see some one study the effect of all of the salt that goes into our lakes in the metro area from road salt. I really wonder if this kills off a lot of the zooplankton the panfish feed on. Maybe its not all related to overharvest. Just a thought!

The results of one MPCA study on that very subject were released last spring, but I can't seem to find it.

[goblueM]

These links might help

http://www.pca.state.mn.us/programs/roadsalt.html#results

http://minnesota.publicradio.org/display/web/2009/02/10/road_salt_in_lakes/

[SFC]

Originally Posted By: PEATMOSS

These threads are SO predictable.....someone starts talking big fish or big bucks, someone trots out the word "quality" and everyone falls all over themselves blurting out ideas for stricter laws, more rules,regulations, slots, restrictions...blah,blah blah!

Anyone ever heard of things like voluntary restraint and education? Yes, there are still game hogs out there, but their numbers are dwindling. The diehard greedy pigs are going to find a way around just about any reg imposed.

Does anyone EVER stop a minute and think about the consequences of all this silliness? Don't get me wrong, special regs have their place, but turning every fish that isn't a carp or bullhead into some kind of toy shouldn't be one of them.

One thing predictable about it, is there is always someone like you who thinks they have to go against the grain to pad their ego Of course I thought about the consequences, there aren't many. But the outcome of tighter regs sure wouldn't hurt.

To disagree with others to pad your ego. I dont get it. WOW

[Jim Uran]

WOW!!!! What? Calling people out for their desire to see tighter regs on fish that they fish the most is supposed to be ok? Minnesota is so caught up in walleyes that pannies get left on the back porch.

What is so silly about wanting to see tighter regs on panfish? Saying that I want to manage panfish so they can become one of my toys is ridiculous. If you like catching 7" crappies and be happy with it be my guest.

Personally, I've got plenty of lakes with nice pannies in them, but as the urban sprawl creeps it's way north, it won't be that way for long.

[dairyman]

I don't know how many times I've come home from fishing and the wife will ask "did you catch any"----Yeah--I caught 3 or 4. How many did you bring home--none!! I can remember her asking me if I wanted to take her I-pod along,I said no. I do it for the sheer enjoyment--just being on the lake with the solitude is enough. Catching fish is just frosting on the cake. Oh yeah--I do enjoy winter fishing more than summer fishing

[SFC]

I wouldnt say I totally disagree with your thoughts on panfish regs, just didnt understand the ego part. What is the answer for stunted panfish, someone posted 5 crappies over 10, I think a lower fish limit may cause more people to only keep the larger fish. I beleave we need to start harvesting the stunted fish, not the bigger ones. Iam definetly not a expert on this topic.

[Jim Uran]

These threads are SO predictable.....someone starts talking big fish or big bucks, someone trots out the word "quality" and everyone falls all over themselves blurting out ideas for stricter laws, more rules,regulations, slots, restrictions...blah,blah blah!

Anyone ever heard of things like voluntary restraint and education? Yes, there are still game hogs out there, but their numbers are dwindling. The diehard greedy pigs are going to find a way around just about any reg imposed.

Does anyone EVER stop a minute and think about the consequences of all this silliness? Don't get me wrong, special regs have their place, but turning every fish that isn't a carp or bullhead into some kind of toy shouldn't be one of them.

This post comes off as holier than blah blah blah. That's where my ego comment came from.

[SFC]

Point taken.

[PEATMOSS]

My posts were meant to be a little edgy, not personal attacks. Sorry if they were taken that way.

I like to eat fish and game. I prefer to feed the same to my family for all kinds of good reasons. While I'm all for sound biological management of our resources, I'm not real fond of overly restrictive laws that needlessly limit harvest for the sake of some sketchy concept of "quality". I believe Crappies and Sunnies are refered to as panfish for good reason.

I know I don't always come off real personable on here, but I've grown weary of folks that want to tell me I can't shoot a buck unless it meets their standards of quality or that I can only take home 5 crappies.......to me that is silly and to say so is not a personal attack on anyone.

[Jim Uran]

Agreed Peatmoss, I never said it was a personal attack and your comments are great and welcomed.

[fisherdog19]

I suggested the 5 crappie limit with a minimum size, I'd also like to see an experimental catch and release season during a 6 week period encompassing the spawn for both crappies and gills. I'd be very curious to see what effect this would have on a few lakes.

We have several lakes in the area with either a 5 crappie limit, a minimum size, or both and I'll be darned if they aren't the lakes that have some of the nicest crappies around, and they get pounded in the winter. I have no problem with keeping fish, I do it often, but 10 gills and 5 crappies is enough to feed anyone's family. The bottom line is that overharvest will stunt a lake, as soon as they reach "cutter" size they go in the pail, leaving only small fish to spawn. Obviously you see it more in densely populated areas so there's a reason lakes further from population density hold good populations of larger sized fish. Altough these "metro" lakes will hold some larger fish as well, it's just a lot fewer of them.

[OnAFly]

Lowered limits and a CR only season would do wonders for lakes in the metro area. Between ice fishing and spawn fishing, crappies down here don't have a chance.

The DNR would have to patrol a lot of shore fishing spots to enforce something like this, though.

[goblueM]

but even if half the folks followed the reg it't still have a huge impact, i'd wager

its stupid easy to catch panfish during that spawning time, and usually they are the bigger ones

[Jim Uran]

I think the majority of fishermen are honest enough to follow the regs!

[OnAFly]

You're probably right. The majority of fisherman probably are honest enough to follow a C&R only reg for that time. The problem is that there is a very large number of people fishing a limited amount of water here. So, even if 90% of them follow the laws, that still leaves a lot of people not following them.

Lets say 100,000 people in the metro area fish. That's 10,000 people still going for fish that are very easy to take advantage of. Since the other 90,000 aren't keeping fish, this leaves more opportunity for those who are not following the rules to keep more fish.

[Chode2235]

You're probably right. The majority of fisherman probably are honest enough to follow a C&R only reg for that time. The problem is that there is a very large number of people fishing a limited amount of water here. So, even if 90% of them follow the laws, that still leaves a lot of people not following them.

Lets say 100,000 people in the metro area fish. That's 10,000 people still going for fish that are very easy to take advantage of. Since the other 90,000 aren't keeping fish, this leaves more opportunity for those who are not following the rules to keep more fish.

But fishing is one of those sports where 20% of the people fishing catch 80% of the fish. Most of us here are pretty into the sport, and likely (or maybe someday) are in that 20% bracket. Most of us are the law abiding type, I hope. And if we can get on board with tighter panfish regs it would have a huge impact on the fishery. It may take some time, and yes probably a bit more enforcement, but I dont have much doubt that it would be accepted pretty easily. Especially given the success of slots and special regs for walleyes.

The biggest opportunity is here in the metro, with some of the bigger lakes out state.

[OnAFly]

Chode - I would agree with your 80/20 statement over the length of the season. But during that spawn time, panfish are so easy to catch anyone can do it. They are shallow and within reach of anyone on shore. All you have to do is cast to them with a bobber or jig.

Either way, I agree that regs would help a ton. I simply think there would need to be supplemental enforcement for the first few years after the regs were enacted to get the message across.