System backup???

[BobT]

I’ve been thinking about getting an external hard drive to make a complete backup image of my home PC. My intention would be that if I ever experienced a fatal system error, I could restore my personal files plus everything else including installed software and the operating system. I’m not very familiar with what I need in order to do this.

My current operating system is Windows Vista Home Premium 32-bit with a 160G hard drive.

I assume my first step is to purchase a suitable external hard drive. Knowing that some day I will upgrade my PC, chances are my replacement will likely require more hard drive space than my current system. Obviously I can’t predict what my future system will be but I’d like to try to be somewhat pro-active and buy one that would most likely be large enough to handle what that future system may require.

From reviews I’ve read, hard drives can be finicky. What hard drives might you recommend?

Is there a limit on the size of the hard drive that my PC can handle or is that not a concern?

Any thoughts on how much larger, at the least, I should consider?

I suspect that the next system I buy will not be a 32-bit system so can this impact my choice of hard drive or will changes in technology likely make my external hard drive obsolete by the time I upgrade my system?

I don’t think my existing backup and restore utility has the ability to do a complete backup of my system so I expect I need software that can handle this. Is there special software that I would need and do you have any recommendations?

How would this work? If my system crashed would I be able to run my PC on the external drive and use it to reformat my internal and then restore the image back to the internal drive?

Thanks,

[Dbl]

Bob,

The problem with using a external hard drive for imaging is that you really haven't solved anything. That is not a backup situation, the external drive is just as prone to failure as your internal drive.

I know there are some IT folks here that will have you go to a RAID type setup, its what corporate users do, and it works. I am going to suggest something a bit different but something that was designed just for folks like you. I want it to backup automatically, safely and I don't want any hassles with a re-install.

WHS or Windows Home Server. I've been running mine for almost two years. Yours is exactly the situation that this was designed for. If you want me to go ahead and give you an overview I will do that but do a search and you will find a ton of good information out there on the system.

HP and a number of other manufactures are building WHS boxes, I built mine from an old computer I had laying around. My cost....$100. This gives me automatic backup of ALL computers daily, remote access to my computers from anywhere in the world. Access to all my files from anywhere. No other software to configure it just plain works. I have had a hard drive failure from my main desktop and within 3 hours after installing a new drive I had my last backup (the previous day) up and running. My computer was EXACTLY like it was the previous day, all programs, files everything.

I've also had a system disk failure of the server itself. Same thing, within one hour my server was up and running with NO loss of data. I've convinced at least six other folks to use WHS and they all love it, because they don't even know its there.

[Bear55]

Good info Dbl, I still use a couple of external hard drives but they are pretty much junk, haven't had one make it more than a year or two without failing. Others only lasted weeks or months.

BobT you also might want to look into online backup. It might cost a little more but if your house burns down your files are safe. There are some free options out there for online storage too but they don't give you much space. Maybe 2-4Gigs.

[spearchucker]

How is the WHS any less prone to disk failure than an external hard drive? Your hard drive on your WHS could fail and you would lose everything as well. Any backup is prone to failure, unless you have multiple backups that are physically located in different areas. An external HD is a good solution IMO for the average home user. The external is going to have a lot less hours on the drive. You plug it in, do your backup or image, and unplug it. It doesn't have to be running all the time which lessens the chance of failure. I even put mine in a fireproof safe. The perfect storm, where you lose the external and the PC, is the only thing that can kill you.

Windows 7 has disk imaging backup built-in. For Vista, I have used Acronis True Image. Can be bought for about $30-40. There are also some free imaging brograms, but I like Acronis the best.

[CJH]

I have had one External Hard Drive for 3 years or so, without any problems. I also purchased another 1.5 TB one to store media and haven't had any problems with that.

Hard Drive failures happen alot less than they used to.

[Dbl]

Spearchucker, it isn't any less prone to failure, did you read my first post? I have experienced all of your scenarios and the WHS is designed with no fuss to handle each of them. I can verify that it does indeed do that. Your idea of an external drive is what I do to backup my WHS system drive. It is only on to backup, turned off and then stored in a fireproof safe. Any component on any of my computers or server can fail and there is a way to restore it.

[muddpuppy]

Another option would be to buy a (NAS) NETGEAR - Home Media Network Storage System.

This is what I use to keep my files safe from myself. I am alway rebuilding and playing with new Software and OS. I then make a hard copy on DVDs to keep in the safe

[spearchucker]

Spearchucker, it isn't any less prone to failure, did you read my first post?

[DTro]

Do a Google search on Carbonite.

About $50 a year

[spearchucker]

Do a Google search on Carbonite.

About $50 a year

I have heard about them, but they would be slow and tie up you internet connect for several days initially. It would work good for pictures and things that don't change very often.

[DTro]

Well actually it install a small application and checks daily for any new files, so IMO I think it's a decent option.

[Dbl]

Well actually it install a small application and checks daily for any new files, so IMO I think it's a decent option.

But it would appear it is not a good option for BobT, I believe he said he wants a mirror image backup. Carbonite is for files and folders, not a complete image.

spearchucker, I do use a couple of external drives in swappable external enclosures only for the WHS system drive (again hedging against failure). You do not need to use it because you do have a re-install disk but it makes restoring a breeze if you do. If you just use the disk re-install for the system itself it will have to build a new backup, but no data is lost on the storage drives.

Cost, well for me it was $100 as I mentioned. If you buy a pre-built machine you will be in the cost of a DROBO (another good solution). This is a long term solution, one that will be around for a while. Microsoft is pushing it as a media server, the place I believe it will have some legs. I use it to back up a photography business. My photos are what you might call extremely important to me.

The server does not need to be on all the time. It is configurable to operate on a schedule. I have one person that only operates it one hour per day to run backups of their home PC's. All done with no user intervention. The server wakes, does its back up, and shuts down.

Hope that answered your question.

[spearchucker]

I didn't say it was a bad option, just slow if you have a lot of data. It all depends on the amount of data you have. Even with 10-20mbps internet it could take several days to get everything backed up.

[spearchucker]

I have an old machine laying around and may try WHS. I have an MSDN subscription so I think I can download WHS for free. I thought you had to set it up like a Windows domain where you had to have it on all the time to get logged into your client PC. Maybe I will experiment with it.

Acronis is working well for me. I can save a complete image or just select certain files and directories. It also does differential backups.

[BobT]

Good information so far.

I currently use the backup and restore program to save my file data on a CD. But that doesn't protect me if a virus or something else crashes my hard drive making it necessary to reformat it and it doesn't back up all the application software that I've either purchased online or have on CD. Even if I did have all the CDs from the applications on my system I'd be reinstalling from day 1 and then I'd have years of updates to reinstall, which could take days of downloading.

I thought it would be nice to have a way of duplicating my hard drive and then regularly backing up as part of my maintenance plan so that if something did happen, I could at least restore my PC to where it was at the most recent backup.

[Jim43]

I have 5 external HD and 4 internal. With just over 4TB of storage

I have never had any fail. Internal are all SATA2. Dell XPS 700

has this huge case and pre-wired HD cages that no tools are needed

to install another. Same goes for the Optical drives,room for 6.

Added a LG Blu-Ray burner after Christmas and moved my DVD burners

down the drive list.

[Dbl]

I have an old machine laying around and may try WHS. I have an MSDN subscription so I think I can download WHS for free. I thought you had to set it up like a Windows domain where you had to have it on all the time to get logged into your client PC. Maybe I will experiment with it.

You can download and do a six month free trial. Thats what I did. At the end of the six months you do have to do a complete re-install if you decide to buy but really it is not that big of a deal. Before my six month trial was up I had a drive failure on my main desktop PC. I installed a new one in the PC, WHS recognized I had a new drive and asked if I wanted to install my last backup and away we went. That is what convinced me that this setup has real potential. The backups are fairly quick, it only looks for changes since the last backup.

The computer that you use doesn't have to be anything big at all. It really is just running a modified version of Server 2003. You don't use it for anything that requires any real computing power. If you go the build your own route it does require some expertise but spearchucker I don't believe that would be an issue at all. Oh and if you go the pre-built route it works with Mac as well.

If you have an old machine or extra machine laying around its a no-brainer to run a six month fully functioning free trial.

[Dbl]

Good information so far.

I currently use the backup and restore program to save my file data on a CD. But that doesn't protect me if a virus or something else crashes my hard drive making it necessary to reformat it and it doesn't back up all the application software that I've either purchased online or have on CD. Even if I did have all the CDs from the applications on my system I'd be reinstalling from day 1 and then I'd have years of updates to reinstall, which could take days of downloading.

I thought it would be nice to have a way of duplicating my hard drive and then regularly backing up as part of my maintenance plan so that if something did happen, I could at least restore my PC to where it was at the most recent backup.

Precisely what WHS does. It gets your computer exactly as it was at the last backup. No installing updates or software programs. Set the time you want for backup and you won't think about it again, it all works automatically...until the day you have a drive failure, then you will be glad you have it.

[upnorth]

What is sounds like you want to do is create a image of your current system that can be restored if your PC crashes or get hit with major virus. It can be done. What you want is a disk imaging app. It will create complete restorable image of your current system to a external drive. Many of them will create a special CD that you boot your PC from and then it will access the appropriate device to restore from. These are not free and depending on how deep your pockets, not cheap either. But they do work and work well. The only one I have used is put out by Symantec.

[spearchucker]

What is sounds like you want to do is create a image of your current system that can be restored if your PC crashes or get hit with major virus. It can be done. What you want is a disk imaging app. It will create complete restorable image of your current system to a external drive. Many of them will create a special CD that you boot your PC from and then it will access the appropriate device to restore from. These are not free and depending on how deep your pockets, not cheap either. But they do work and work well. The only one I have used is put out by Symantec.

That is exactly what Acronis True Image does.

[upnorth]

Yeah there are a few out there. At least 10 different brands. Most everyone in industry uses Norton Ghost, but as per usual there is going to be the Chevy vs Ford vs Dodge etc. If it something you want, read a few brochures and reviews.

[BobT]

I appreciate all the info. Got some things to look consider. Thanks.

[BoxMN]

I have used, and had to do a full re-install on a completely different computer, Symantec Backup Exec System Recovery (version 8.5, desktop edition). Cost is about $60 online, give or take. Then you also need a external drive, I got a 500 gig WD that seems to work fine. So maybe $150 into it.

It does an initial backup and then an incremental backup daily, with different restore points. It takes care of basically everything you are talking about Bob. Not a sophisticated as other's solutions, but it is pretty easy to install and use.

I have used it once to restore to new computer, and two times to restore a save point on my boss's computer. Works pretty slick. Thing is, if there is a virus or malware, you need to make sure to use the previous safe restore point, ha!

You set the schedule for timing and type of backup points. Worth a look see while you are searching for best solution.

[spearchucker]

The backup program built into Windows does the same thing if you want to go cheap, maybe not as nice of an interface, but it gets the job done.

[Whoaru99]

I recommend ShadowProtect Desktop as your imaging program. Highly rated, simple to use (much more so than Acronis), and fast (relatively speaking). It's not free but the $60 cost is easy if you've ever lost anything important or spent two days reloading OS and programs, if you can find all the stuff.

It has many options for full, incremental, and or differential backup scheduling, can back up to pretty much any type of devices or network location, does bare metal and hardware independent restores, and you can browse the back up images just as if they were another drive on your computer using the image mounting feature.

I use this on my work laptop and on my main home computer, backing up to external HDDs. So far, I've not had to use the image restores due to a real failure, but I did do a full image restore on my work laptop as a test (because I wouldn't have to fix it if it bombed ) and it worked flawlessly.

Oh, BTW, RAID arrays are not backups. They are still prone to accidental deletion of files, viruses, etc.