Tag Soup...

[Bear55]

Actually our group didn't see that much wolf sign this year, not many deer either. I'm starting to wonder if the wolves haven't headed south in search of more food. It would explain why more people are seeing them in areas that haven't held wolves in the past.

[McGurk]

1992-2008 Harvest Statistics

I believe in averages, and for every rough winter there is going to be an easy one. Micro-managing the herd zone-by-zone, year-by-year, is doing nothing but confusing and frustrating hunters. Look at the harvest table on the DNR HSOforum, and you will see a decline in harvested deer until 1997 (multiple hard winters), an increase until 2003 (doe permits), and an overall slow decline to the present (mild winters and Intensive Harvest). I wish the DNR would tell us the harvest number they have in mind when they make their decisions to change zones.

People complain about wolves, but there is a predator/prey relationship there, and the wolves are responding to available deer in the only way they know how. Who saw wolves when the harvest was in its lows during the '90s? No deer, no wolves. Bottom line: Nature is aiding in herd control in the only way it actively can. Weather doesn't make wolves appear; food does.

When we had the great herd and harvest numbers in the mid-'00s, implementing Intensive harvest was short-sighted mistake. Nature can do a great job of taking care of itself, if we don't get in the way. A healthy, deer-fed wolf pack never attacked anyone and can cull out enough deer to keep a herd healthy. Unfortunately, fewer deer will make a pack pretty hungry pretty fast, and then they start taking on other available food sources.

Oh yeah; one guy in my brother-in-laws's fiance's family took 7 deer this yearin the zone I hunt, and Muzzleloader hasn't even opened yet. He and his Dad aim for 5 deer each.

[lakevet]

Things cycle. My Dad says the most deer he saw on public land was back in the 1950's. Deer trails on public land here up north pounded to dirt that were 12 to 18 inches wide. No tag soup those days. Things declined so in 1971 the season closed. Now they peaked again. Glad whitetails are a renewable resource. Also with the economy, more meat hunters out there.

lakevet

[Musky Buck]

No wonder Ottertail county is sinking fast, just kidding but I've seen 18 deer in the last 4 years and 52 in the 4 years before putting in equal amounts actually i have to put in even more time now. JK McGurk

[Gordie]

There are so many factors in which we as hunters to not get to fill our tags and once it happens it is so easy to throw the blame on everything from DNR to wolves or neigbors to poachers but the reality of it is plain and simple its called hunting and if everyone tagged a deer that hunted what do you think the outcome would be? Is it the same with fishing you go fishing on a lake and dont catch anything whos to blame?

Not trying to start a fight but if you havent seen the numbers in your area just maybe its time to lay off that area for a bit and try another until yours bounces back. I know this is tough if you own your own property but it can be done and I have done this in the past. yea it was a pain but for three years I hunted puplic land while my private property rebounded on its own. oh and I did manage to not have tag soup those three years.

As always someone has to have tag soup last year it was me, this year you,next year someone else or maybe me. wont know that until next year.

Good luck next season

[spivak]

Many native cultures pin the outcome of the hunt to the spiritual state and worthiness of the hunter. Sometimes when I'm out stinking up a swaying poplar and seeing nothing this is not too hard to believe.

[Bear55]

1992-2008 Harvest Statistics

I believe in averages, and for every rough winter there is going to be an easy one. Micro-managing the herd zone-by-zone, year-by-year, is doing nothing but confusing and frustrating hunters. Look at the harvest table on the DNR HSOforum, and you will see a decline in harvested deer until 1997 (multiple hard winters), an increase until 2003 (doe permits), and an overall slow decline to the present (mild winters and Intensive Harvest). I wish the DNR would tell us the harvest number they have in mind when they make their decisions to change zones.

People complain about wolves, but there is a predator/prey relationship there, and the wolves are responding to available deer in the only way they know how. Who saw wolves when the harvest was in its lows during the '90s? No deer, no wolves. Bottom line: Nature is aiding in herd control in the only way it actively can. Weather doesn't make wolves appear; food does.

When we had the great herd and harvest numbers in the mid-'00s, implementing Intensive harvest was short-sighted mistake. Nature can do a great job of taking care of itself, if we don't get in the way. A healthy, deer-fed wolf pack never attacked anyone and can cull out enough deer to keep a herd healthy. Unfortunately, fewer deer will make a pack pretty hungry pretty fast, and then they start taking on other available food sources.

Oh yeah; one guy in my brother-in-laws's fiance's family took 7 deer this yearin the zone I hunt, and Muzzleloader hasn't even opened yet. He and his Dad aim for 5 deer each.

McGurk I think you nailed it. One number that really concerns me it bonus tag sales. 1998 there were about 21,000 and in 2008 there were 190,000. I still think the DNR let the $$$ cloud their judgement when it came time to designate an area managed/lotto/intensive. In certain areas there just are not that many does to go around, and extended periods of bonus tags has finally caught up with us.

[lakevet]

Not sure what the muzzy hunter license sales were in 98 but likely less than 9,000. Muzzy harvest that year was 3,152 deer. 2008 muzzy license sales were 64,673. Extra 55,000 muzzy hunters at $26 each, let see that comes to $1,430,000.

Bonus permit at $13 each, the extra 169,000 permits (190,000-21,000) comes to $2,197,000.

Total of both comes to $3,627,000. That kind of cash could

potentially influence decisions made. Especially with the state budget situation License fees are the best money spent, Very reasonable in my opinion. Want the DNR funded adequately. Would be willing to pay more for a muzzy only license that only traditional muzzy hunters could participate in that are more interested in the uncrowded hunting experience than getting a deer.

lakevet

[Arctic]

I think the pedulum has swung back from having too many deer a few years ago (lots of forestry/crop/orchard damage, depending on the part of the state) to having deer numbers that are at or a bit below the population goals the DNR has set.

My own lack of success was from over-confidence. I let eight does and a small buck walk during the first three days of the season and then never saw another deer! I hunted part or all of 12 days of the 16-day season here in the Arrowhead. I would not have killed the small buck either way, but I sure was hoping a big boy would follow one of those does!

I do think that stong winds on opening day and warm weather the entire season influenced deer movement, as well as a near-full moon early in the season.

I am willing to bet that next year we will see a LOT of lottery areas. I would also like to see a return to where you pick your zone and that's where you hunt. That would probably cut down on the trespassing situation a bit, because you wouldn't have as many migrant hunters travelling into an area they don't know, and end up hunting on private land they don't own. That's especially problematic in southern Minnesota where public lands are fairly scarce, but hunter density high.

Luckily, that's not my problem.

[John478]

I don’t think the number of BPs the DNR allows has much to do with making money. If you look the changes they made last year by getting rid of the all season license and the multi zone buck license there probably losing money.

My bother in law always bought the all season license and he only hunted the firearms season. He bought it so he could hunt both up north at is cabin and around home and then maybe take more then one deer. Now all he has to buy is a firearms license and a BP. Much Cheaper

I always bought the all season license and usually hunted all three seasons. This year between me and my son we have a couple of deer in freezer and my buck tag is filled so I have no intent to buy a muzzle loader license just so I can maybe take a doe and burst the seams of my freezer.

Also know there was a lot of people that bought the all season license and only hunted two of the three season. Now all they have to buy is the two licenses.

Oh I have a BP for that bowl of soup if you need it.

[sticknstring]

Quote:

Many native cultures pin the outcome of the hunt to the spiritual state and worthiness of the hunter.