Gun shy help

[Ron Burgundy]

6 month old english cocker, not a fan of the blanks. She's stops whatever she's doing when the gun goes off. I've done the whole loud clapping and banging when she's eating and that doesn't phase her any more. She can totally ignore that. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. She loves to hunt the grass with great enthusiasm. I'd hate to think I won't be able to shoot what she flushes!

[TR21]

Take her to a gun range.Start her a ways out then slowly walk her in until she's comfortable.

[LABS4ME]

No gun range for me... I'd begin to establish the connection of birds to gun if she has been exposed to birds.

I'm not so sure she is gun shy, but rather hyper sensitive to the loud bang. She needs to associate that noise with something good... something "SHE" wants.

The use of live pigeons and allowing her to be really excited and chasing one when a gun goes off will most likely have little if any effect on her. Her mind will almost 100% be on the bird and not the shot. No different to a kid not feeling the recoil of a deer rifle when he shoots at a deer vs. a paper target.

I'd back off and use no more than a .22 short blank. A live pigeon with it's wings clipped and some cover. Let the dog work the cover and at the moment of finding the bird, raise your cap and a helper 50 yards away will fire one shot. Decrese the distance as the dog shows to not be distracted by the shot till you can shoot next to the dog. 50 then 40 then 30 then 20 then 10 yards and once again with a .410 after the .22 blanks. Make sure the dog gets to retrieve the bird after the shot.

You will now tie all the upland aspects of bird and gun together. the hunt, the flush, the shot and the retrieve.

Good Luck!

Ken

[rmkod]

Taking her to the gun range is the worse thing you could possibly ever do. Get some birds, plant them and let her chase a few. After she has built up some drive have somebody stand 100 yards or so away and fire the blank gun towards the ground as she is chasing the bird. The key is to make sure she is actively chasing a bird while the gun goes off so she doesn't think about it. Slowly move into closer ranges and larger calibers, with the end point of shooting a bird. IF she reacts to the gun at 100 yards while chasing move even further out. This can be a very long process, don't rush it or push your luck. If at 100 yards she doesn't react to the first shot quit for the day and start there next time and move in a little closer, if she doesn't react quit for that day. With a dog that is sensitive this process will take months. Though if you push it you will have a dog that is no good for hunting the next 10+ years. Also forget about the pot banging..etc..that is a waste of time.

[BirddogLabs]

It is extremely important that she associates the sound of the gun with something positive. If she doesn't have anything to associate the sound with, it is very likely that she will have gun shy issues. I'm not familiar with starting spaniels as they are flushers, but does she retreive? I'm familiar with Labs and have been very successful with getting them to make the association between gun and birds/retrieve/FUN. I am willing to talk it through with you if you would like, but it would take a novel to describe the process in detail here.

The biggest thing I can tell you is that you don't want to scare the dog. If you start the dog with gun shots, make sure she is fully focused and engaged in an activity (finding a dummy with wings/ watching a dummy fall for a retrieve are a couple of suggestions, using a real bird really helps). She must be focused and excited before doing a single shot from a distance. Have someone help you by having them shoot the gun from a distance so you can watch her for a response (but don't act like anything happended in front of her). Make sure that she WILL get the reward after the shot every single time for quite a while. After this and she seems comfortable with the sound of guns from a distance and gradually getting closer, the first time shooting right over her it is important to she sees the bird before the shot and is guaranteed to get the bird after hearing the shot.

Hope this helps and good luck!

[duckbuster]

LABS mentions a good thing with the pigeon. Buy a very small dog leash that has the smallest clasp/snap possible. Attach a 10-15 foot rope to the leash. Get the pigeon and snap the leash above the ankle of the pigeons leg and let your pup chase it around.

While doing so have someone off in the distance firing a blank pistol or what you feel the dog will be comfortable with.

Two things happen with this little exercise.

1) you introduce the dog to gun fire in a meaningful way

2) you get your dog extremely birdy

GOOD LUCK!!!

[southwest]

I had a yellow lab that was gun shy to start with. This may sound crazy but it worked. I would hit golf balls in back yard and she would bring back to the point that she would go nuts when I took out the golf club. AFter that I switched to throwing clay targets, and after awhile she would go nuts, barking and hyper, . Then I started shoot the clay targets with a 20 ga and she was over the being gun shy. Shes 12 yrs old and still goes nuts whenever the clay targets comes out. Worked my other young dogs the same way. Associate shooting with something they love doing and they may get over it. I threw the targets every other day for about 10 days then started shooting.

[bwana_d]

Has it been said enough - no gun range, some people are lucky and have dogs that tolerate it, probably because of something else that has been going on prior to that exposure.

Association with something they like works well, if the dog is already gun shy it is time to take a step back and develop that association as already mentioned. I cured a 18 month old English Pointer that came to me gun shy by getting it retrieve dummies in the water. It was a few weeks, almost every day getting that dog so amped up it would do anything for the dummy. Then I started with a blank gun in the distance when he was actively pursuing dummies in the water, moved it closer and then started over with a .410 at a distance moved closer and then repeated with a 12 gauge. I was lucky to find something he enjoy so much, who would have thunk – an English Pointer retrieving in water. Obviously, I could not do that at this time of year.

Starting from scratch and avoiding it all together is always the best approach. The banging and clapping only goes so far with some dogs. Highly recommend association again with game and the blank gun, the game should be small and easy to avoid scarring the dog from retrieving. Recommend small rabbits, quail or pigeon. Once they have chased, caught and developed a drive to catch the game it is time to introduce the gun. Be patient, spend the money on a few rabbits or birds and let the enthusiasm of the dog tell you when they are ready.

Worst of all I know it is hunting season, do not be pressured by that fact. Spend the time for the next few weeks if needed and you will be able to hunt the rest of this season and season to come, if you do not spend the time you will be looking for a new dog for next year or not taking the dog hunting next year because it is taking up kennel space.

Good Luck,

Don

[kentuck_ike]

I have used a combinaiton of what Labs and Duckbuster suggested on about 30 dogs and have never had an issue. Slower is better. I spread it out over a week or 2, I make darn sure the dog is comfortable with one level before I move on. I live in LeRoy and have pigeons. If you are willing to make the drive I would be willing to help you get started.

[OutlawTorn]

Ill echo everyone else here - NO GUN RANGE.

Also, and more importantly, I would even go so far as to say NO BIRDS either. If the dog is truly on the edge of being gun shy, the last thing you want is for that dog to associate that terribly scary gun fire with birds.

Get them amped up on something else like a dummy or a favorite toy - anything is better than a bird to associate with something scary. Start shooting away from the dog when it is out on a retrieve and slowly start to get closer to shooting over the dog. Then, start over with a larger blank or shotgun shell.

I cant stress this enough - DO NOT try to de-sensitize your dog to gun fire around birds. Introduce birds when gun fire has become a non-event.

[kentuck_ike]

That is why pigeons are used and not a game bird.

[Ron Burgundy]

That would be great! I have a friend that might be able to get some birds and help. If he doesn't have the time, the drive (to Le Roy is it?) wouldn't be a problem.

[OutlawTorn]

That is why pigeons are used and not a game bird.

Why risk it? Chances are it will be fine, but what good is a bird dog thats afraid of birds? The risks outweigh the benefits FOR ME when other distractions can be used to condition a pup to the gun just as well as a bird.

[11-87]

Hey Kentuck Ike,

I may be interested in a pigeon or 2. In-Laws live down that way, and I too have a dog that's a little Noise Challanged..

Might be interested in hooking up.

[kentuck_ike]

Ron & 11-87 My e-mail is [email protected] just drop me a line and let me know.

[kentuck_ike]

The reason you risk it is because nothing will distract and hold the attention of a "bird dog" more than flapping feathers. Pigeons have totally different scent then game birds, so you get flapping feathers with out the risk of turning them off of game birds. You also do this work in a mowed area where you wouldn't find any game birds. If things went bad your dog would be scared of a bird you don't hunt in an environment you won't be hunting in. This is the way it was explained to me by Rick Smith a 3rd generation trainer that puts seminars on world wide. If it is good enough for him, it works for me.

[Ely Lake Expert]

OP,

Some dogs just take longer to adjust. I have 2 gsp's. One was good at hunting and fine around guns from the first time she was out. Her sister on the other hand was fine until there was a shot then she walked behind you. Well this is their 3rd year now and the gunshy one is finally doing great. I think what scared her was multiple people with multiple guns. This year I would take her out by myself and only a .410. Everytime I shot I would pet her and tell her she was good. The first couple of times out was tough, but now that I have had her out 10+ times this year she is as good as her sister and fine with multiple people. IMO, its just a matter of making the dog comfortable and showing them thats its fun.

[Bandit]

I had my girl friend take the dog about a half mile away and just start walking towards me while I was shooting. The noise was minimum when they started and just got louder as they approached. By the time they got to where I was the dog paid no attention to the shot at all. After she got over the fear of the shot I took her hunting, after a couple of birds she went nuts when the shot rang out. Talk about 180 degree turn!!!

[Ron Burgundy]

Thanks a lot guys. I really appreciate the advice. I've never done this before. It's all totally new to me. You've all been very helpful. She flushed a nice rooster on our walk today! She loved it and I piled on the praise!

[CAJ]

I got a tip from a trainer, about gun shy. Load dog in pickup and don't look or talk to dog. Drive down road and fire pistol out window. for about an hour a day. Do this for 2 weeks and maybe dog will learn to put up with shooting. Then walk with dog and fire pistol for a time for few days. Might work, and might not.

[jigging-matt]

I would have to think that would violate at least a few laws?