Insurance fraud (hail)

[pike doctor]

Here is an experience that I just had with a homeowner.

They had some hail damage to their viynl siding (about 15 holes). The siding was about 20 years old so I informed them that they could get all new siding as long as what they had wasnt made anymore and they had replacement cost coverage.

So they agreed and we had the ins. out and the siding wasnt made so they agreed to replace the whole thing. About 18 sq. Of course the first thing they want is to NOT pay their deductible. I say, ok, how about you pay it and I upgrade you to steel and you kick in an extra five-hundred. So it cost them $1000 out of pocket to have steel put on.

They agree to it. I do all the haggling with the ins, color samples, etc. After they get the check they go and get some other guys to bid it and they come in less than me. So they are gonna pocket $2k and put viynl back on, and then they tell me to bad after i lined it all up, and did all the work with the ins. and the ins is using my numbers to pay them.

Thanks to another crappy homeowner. And I am sure there are plenty more contractors on here that have had this happen. SO next time you question why they want you to sign up right away this is why. These are people I really trusted. I have done roofs for them this year.

I hope some of these homeowners and "deductible paying" contractors start getting nailed for this [PoorWordUsage]. IT IS INS FRAUD PLAIN AND SIMPLE!! Pay your deductible and realize that not everything in life is free.

and thanks to the homeowner for screwing me out of about 15 hours of my time, gas, samples, etc.

end of rant

[DTro]

That is just wrong.

Shouldn't you take a deposit or something? Earnest money?

[BobT]

Even though I indicated my aversion to contractors asking a fee for bidding, this is one time I can see where it would have been appropriate.

It sounds to me like you went way above just quoting a job. You became their liaison with the insurance company and in the end got screwed. Totally unfair. Sounds fraudulent to me. I would be inclined to report their butts to their insurance company. There may be legal avenues that could be pursued.

[chad austin]

This is EXACTLY why a hand shake doesn't cut it anymore (as sad as it is). We've had numerous homeowners try to back out of their contract AFTER we've argued on their behalf. We've payed alot of money for a lawyer to draw up a bullet proof contract that we live and die by.

[JohnMickish]

Every time I have had to do insurance work on the house the contractor that I chose to go with has had me sign a sheet stating that I am agreeing that they will handle the insurance paperwork and they will do the repair work.

I think you need to do that to your new customers.

To make you feel better in the short term, I would call their agent and let the insurance company know what they did and how much they will pocket.

[hartner62]

I bet the ins. company would love to get a call from you.

[Tom7227]

Send them a bill for your time acting as their agent in dealing with the insurance company. You had a verbal contract to do that work and it should be enforceable. Telling their agent probably won't make a difference.

[chad austin]

It is ILLEGAL for an insured to profit off of on insurance claim and we call the insurance company every time that it happens, trust me they will only do it once, insurance companys are worse than the IRS.

As far as the idea of "I think you need to do that to your new customers", we do it with ALL of our customers present and past.

I'll give you an example of why:

We had shingled a very large church in the metro area a few years ago and every thing went well, last year the storm hit and we were called to inspect their roof(the church). After about a half-hour we concluded the roof needed to be replaced, we told the pastor the "bad" news. He was in a rush so we told him that we would be in contact with him and to set up the adjustment, over the next few days his schedule didn't match up with mine. After the adjustment was completed the adjuster agreed that the roof was to be replaced (about a $120,000.00 job) we contacted our "customer" to get the contract signed and this is what he told us "some members of the church are going to get together and replace the shingles so we will not be needing your services" CLICK.

From that point on EVERY CUSTOMER SIGNS A CONTRACT because if you can't trust a man of faith who can you trust?

O yeah 1 year later the roof is still not done

[pike doctor]

I never liked to make anyone sign anything, because I wanted to restore some trust in the contractor/customer relationship. It seems like every couple months there is a contractor on TV or Tom Lyden is doing a story about a crooked contractor. So I would always take the first step and offer to do some work for them as a gesture of good faith. Not all of us are crooks! Then the contract would be signed.

This case was the same. I had a verbal agreement that I could do the work if I could recover the entire house. It has been burning my rear more than a three foot flame all night.

Maybe one of these news channels could do a story on crooked homeowners that try to rip off contractors. It seems like every time I go to a new job the owners are trying to get me to commit multiple felonies. They want you to give them two bids. A really high one for the ins and then a really low one to do the work. My response is always "sure if I can come to your work and you do the same for me."

I hate doing work for people you know cause they always want you to come way down on price, and when you work for people you dont know you never know what your getting into. A hailstorm hit my hometown last year and I never had so many people mad at me. I did everything for ins money and deductibles. Some of the other local contractors havent dealt with ins so they were doing the jobs for quite a bit less than the ins was paying. Well when people were bragging at the bar about how much they pocketed I had quite a few people get mad at me. They told me I was screwing them and that they wouldnt hire me anymore cause i was to expensive. I think this is exactly how i lost this job.

I will be calling AM Fam to let them know that I have nothing to do with the claim anymore. Chad, would you be willing to leave the name of the lawyer that did your contract? I would like to get one made for myself. I have wasted weeks in the last three years and I am finally sick of it.

I think I will just drive around and chase storms.

[deerminator]

That sucks and they did screw you out of your time but not so sure its insurance fraud according to the details. It's fairly standard practice to cut the homeowner a check like that before they pay the deductible and then pay out the rest of the damage claim. I've seen this happen numerous times and often the insurance company pretty much tells the homeowner to keep the check even if they dont get the repairs done. They just have it on record and pay out that much less the next time the same or similar repairs are needed IF the homeowner didnt have the original repairs made.

[chad austin]

Deerminator,

The fraud that pike doctor is talking about is the fact that some contractors are covering homeowner deductables which is highly illegal.

Pike doctor,

The laywer that wrote up our contract is no longer with us, but we do have another lawyer that we have been using for a couple of years and I will E-mail it to you if you leave your contact info on here. Whom ever you choose make sure they specialize in buisness law

[yaggie]

Its sad but I do know more than one person who look at a storm loss as an opertunity to get rich.

[shale]

Sounds like you went to the school of hard knocks. Businesses are in the same boat nowadays. The homeowner thought through the options and picked the one that saved or made him money and left emotions out.

[BobT]

Sounds like you went to the school of hard knocks. Businesses are in the same boat nowadays. The homeowner thought through the options and picked the one that saved or made him money and left emotions out.

I think that in this case they did more than shop around.

Had Pike Doctor just went there, looked things over, bid his price and left and then the homeowners got other bids, that's a little different then going through all the prep work that was done and then getting other bids to do that work.

I think Pike Doctor went way farther than he had to, or perhaps than he should have. Basically, it sounds like he actually performed some of the work without pay. That will be a learning experience there.