Help needed - Hail Damage Claim Denied

[Sarah]

I got hail damage on my roof, siding, downspout and soffit on the momorial weekend in 2008. I filed the claim this June and the insurance denied the claim. I had first adjust came to look at it. He said there was mechanical damage on the roof; not hail damage. I asked him what that mean and his repsonse was it could be the original roofer wear the wrong shoes to install the shingle. However, the mechanical damage only happened on one side of the roof. Anyway, I didn't agree with him so I requested a second adjuster from the insurance company to look at it again. The insurance company sent an engineer from Haag engineer school. The guy said the roof is ok, no hail damage but it did have some damages (the damage he couldn't tell what that was but he was sure it's not hail damage). The insurance agent called me and told me that according to the engineer report, my roof has no hail damage. The siding was not hail damage either. The only hail damage was downspout and soffit but the cost is under the deductable. My qustion is what should I do for the next step?

[MN Shutterbug]

I have no answer for you, but waiting over a year to file a claim probably doesn't help. Also, how does soffit get hail damage?

[NCLaker]

What insurance company do you have?

Not sure but a reputable contractor that specializes in hail damage may be able to help assess the real cause, and if they think it is hail - possibly help represent you with the insurance company. Your agent is suppose to help you, perhaps he/she could give you some ideas on options.

If still not satisfied, I would change companies.

[Sarah]

That was my question too. If the damage on shingle and siding weren't hail damage, how could the soffit and downspout get hail damage?

[BobT]

I suspect you'll have a difficult time getting satisfaction making your claim a year after the fact. I can understand the adjuster's view. How could he determine when the damage was done and to what extent at that time? I think you've got a tough road ahead.

[Sarah]

I got my home insurance through costco; the insurance company is "IDS property casualty insurance company".

My roofing guy believe it's hail damage. He is going to send a Haag certified roofer to take a look at it again.

[Jim916]

You might have a real difficult time with a person from HAAG Engineering. Their definition of a damaged shingle is if the shingle is actually cracked from the hail dent. I dealt with them a year and a half ago and they said I had dents, but no damage.

I went through arbitration with the insurance company and I was awarded damage to the bottom 6 feet of my front slope. What a joke! My roofer at least got them to give me the whole front slope.

Arbitration will cost you 1/2 of the fee for the umpire. At that time we had to pay $375.

[BoxMN]

FWIW - When we first bought our (1945) house, it had a 1 year old roof. Hail came through, and EVERY house around us got new roofs, due to hail. Our adjuster said we had good shingles and they did not get damaged. I took his word for it. Less than 5-6-7 years later my roof looked like he11. It needed to be taken off.

Lucky for me, that 08 hail storm came through and this time the adjuster said, yep, hail damage, and even though roof is old, he put in for entire new roof for me.

My point is, it most likely is damaged by the hail, and the life of it has most likely been cut dramatically. If the ins. company won't pop for it, start saving, cause you will need it in a few years, I saw the damage grow each year after the first hail storm.

Good luck.

[NoWiser]

As a contractor I have worked with many insurance companies over the years. As much as I hate to say it, there is a good chance you are out of luck. It is not uncommon for a roof to be denied by the first adjuster and deemed damaged by a second adjuster. If a second adjuster (or third party) denies it, it is highly unlikely that the insurance company will budge no matter how big of a fuss you put up. Your only shot may be to get them to admit at least a small portion of the roof has damage, and then hope that they no longer make the same type of shingle that is currently on the house.

My advice - Switch insurance companies and hope for some more hail before the roof needs replacing. In my experience there are a couple companies that consistently deny claims even with pretty obvious damage, and a couple who I've never seen deny a claim to replace a roof (or siding, gutters, etc...). Next time I would suggest calling your insurance company ASAP after a storm, and get a contractor that you trust (not a storm-chasing, fly-by-night outfit) out there right away to meet the adjuster. They are less likely to deny a claim when another professional is there to point out the damage to them.

[BMXKING]

Sarah, I went through the same thing last year, I think I know how to help you, please send me an e-mail and I will explain to you how I got mine covered after 3 inspections and an engineer. My contractor was a joke, so they made things worse.

[email protected]

[chad austin]

Sarah,

You have two years after "you know there is damage to your home" to file a claim in MN. Sarah what city do you live in, that would give me a better idea as to the extent of your damage. When you say there is "soffit damage" do you mean "fascia damage?" that would be more likly as the soffit is on the underside of your eaves. My final question is, was there a contractor present at the adjustment representing you?

Feel free to E-mail me with any questions you may have, I do not intend to try and get you into a contract I just want to help.

[email protected]

[Sarah]

Yes, it's fascia damage. The side of the house I had damage on siding, fascia, and downspout. Yes, there was a contractor with me. My contractor was questioned about what the adjuster said. I am still waiting for the written reports from the insurance company at this time. One of my coworker told me to write a letter to Insurance Commissioner but I am not sure this would work.

[Sarah]

I am in Maple Grove, MN

[BobT]

Sarah,

You have two years after "you know there is damage to your home" to file a claim in MN. Sarah what city do you live in, that would give me a better idea as to the extent of your damage. When you say there is "soffit damage" do you mean "fascia damage?" that would be more likly as the soffit is on the underside of your eaves. My final question is, was there a contractor present at the adjustment representing you?

Feel free to E-mail me with any questions you may have, I do not intend to try and get you into a contract I just want to help.

[email protected]

Two years? I would have never guessed that. I suppose if there were other claims in the local area at that time you could be able to prove validity. I would suspect that the homeowner would have to at least be able to claim the date(s) when the damage occurred, wouldn't they?

[jwhjr]

I thought it was 1 year from the date, but I could be mistaken. I had my roof replaced last summer due to hail damage, and I called the insurance company about 9 months after the storm had taken place. Everything went smoothly with the claim.

[BobT]

I could see some advantage to waiting but then there could be disadvantages. Some of the damage may not be obvious right away and waiting will allow it to show. Of course, the longer one waits the more difficult it is to validate the claim.

Putting myself in the inspector's position my first reaction might be to doubt that the damage occurred as claimed and not some time earlier. For example, homeowner buys home and learns later that there was something wrong with the roof and so decides to try and claim hail damage and defraud the insurance company. Not insinuating that this is what is transpiring but I could understand the skepticism on the part of the adjuster.

I think this can get to be a tough situation.

[Flatlander]

Here's my 2 cents. You do indeed have 2 years from the actual event, and 1 year to complete the repairs. As far as waiting, I don't think that's a bad idea. First of all, the hail damage may very well show itself better after going through the winter. Second, you don't have as many storm chasers to deal with. A majority of homeowners have never filed a claim on their homeowner's insurance. Immediately following an event, you'll get dozens of silver tongued"insurance specialists", canvassing the neighborhoods. "we'll take care of your insurance company. Of course you won't need to pay a deductible. Just sign this non-binding contract(which states in fine print-if the insurance company pays for a loss, and you don't utilize our services, we're entitled to a percentage of your claim) and we'll handle everything. Blah, blah, blah. These guys are borderline criminal. Look at the Twin Cities today. A majority of the companies still doing business are local, reputable contractors. No storms=no yahoo storm chasers. Nothing wrong with waiting.

Unfortunately, a good number of insurance companies regard Haag 's definition of hail damage as gospel. Tough spot for you.

I wouldn't recommend going to appraisal over a roof. I've umped 2 roofs in the last 3 weeks, and neither worked out so well for the insured.

Good luck, and hope for another hail event.

[NCLaker]

...In my experience there are a couple companies that consistently deny claims even with pretty obvious damage, and a couple who I've never seen deny a claim to replace a roof (or siding, gutters, etc...).

NoWiser, I am considering changing companies, from your experience what companies consistently deny and which don't. If you don't want to post here, you can e-mail me: nclaker at gmail dot com.

Thanks!

[BobT]

The way I've been told is that if there is sand from the shingles on the ground then hail damage has been done. Sometimes you can't see the dents in the shingles depending on the type of shingle and whether it's light damage or enough to crack or break the shingles shouldn't matter. If there damaged I'd insist on repairing the roof. If my insurance company won't step up to the plate they no longer hold the title of my insurance company going forward.

Flatlander mentioned storm chasers. Maybe this is one time when they would be beneficial.

[pike doctor]

I am a contractor and I have started to do some of the hail stuff over the last four years. In my expierience State Farm and Farmers have been the best to work with. Then comes Am Fam and some of your smaller companies. I have found that the absolute worst companies to work with are All State and North Star mutual.

Some companies will want to see cracked matting that is penetrated all the way through the shingle. Others will accept visable brusing of the shingle.

You could have your whole driveway full of granules from the roof, but if your roof damage doesnt meet their criteria you WILL NOT get anything.

The worst is when you have a roof that is getting towards the end of its life cycle. Then they like to call it blistering or they claim the shingle has failed.

I have meet with All state on about 5 in the last year and they denied every one of them for some reason or another. One them had roof turbins that were so beat up they wouldnt even spin anymore. They paid to replace them and some other stuff, but wouldnt budge on the shingles because the matting wasnt cracked all the way through.

I can guarentee after a couple winters those roofs will fail miserably.

Most of the process will depend on your adjuster and how generous they are feeling.

[Flatlander]

IMHO, storm chasers are never beneficial. The mere mention of certain company names will sour an adjuster quickly. I'm not saying that is right, but I've seen too many examples of how these guys act toward adjusters, that I can hardly blame the adjusters.

Granular loss does not constitute hail damage. By their very nature/design, shingles lose granuals virtually every time they are hit with a hard rain.

Look at a roof with Certainteed New Horizon shingles. Yes, they are junk, they're no longer manufactured, but every overlay on them is spider-webbed and losing lots of granuals. And this applies to newer roofs with these shingles, as well as old worn out roofs.

Again, the original poster is in a tough spot and I wish her the best. But, from what she has described, it doesn't sound like she'll be getting a roof this go-round.

[Surface Tension]

I've already done a lengthy post on what entails a quality job.

I'm not saying storm chasers don't do quality work because you can't say they are all the same. Roofing crews are as good as its weakest link. You could have top end shingles, vents, ext but it comes down to prep and attention to details as far as a quality job. The integrity of the individuals on the roof makes the difference.

You won't have loose minerals unless someone has been walking on your roof or there is hail damage. Still loose mineral isn't damage but it is an indicator that something is up. Dents per sq. is what most companies go by. If you don't want to see dents you won't. You have to look for them. Having a reputable contractor for on site inspection before the adjuster shows up is, well, lets just say he'll have time see/find the damage and point out the dents the adjuster misses.

So you might have some hail damage but not enough per sq(100 sq ft).

[BobT]

I guess I might have misunderstood what you mean by storm chasers. My thought was lawyers not contractors.

[chad austin]

Once you make a claim with the insurance company you have one year to complete the work inorder to recieve the depreciation

Chad