Bullheads got the Crud!!

[Larry FlatCaster]

My last two died yesterday.... Not from the crud...52 days in captivity with pretty much no feeding... They would get the occasional chub, but otherwise they did good considering. I learned alot... Pretty much know a bullheads thresh-hold for chlorine and ammonia poisoning.

I am pretty pleased with the bio filter set up.... I think that makes a big difference for me compared to last year.

[MinnesnowtaWild]

My Bullies are dropping like flies right now with the crud. I checked yesterday and they all looked great but just checked them now and they all have large amounts of fungal/bacterial infections on them with a few floaters that got it really bad.

Steve did you ever come to a conclusion about that stuff you used?

I am bummed out because I had about two dozen good sized Bullheads but now looks like they are all going to die. I just changed the water again yesterday too and rinsed everything off.

[SteveD]

Steve did you ever come to a conclusion about that stuff you used?

It didn't work. I ended up emptying my tank and scrubbing it out but that didn't help either. I put in a new batch of bullheads and they were all covered with fungus and dying within a few days. I took them out and did a water change and then put in 6 large suckers - the suckers had the crud too within 3 days.

I don't know what to do. I'm thinking of bleaching the tank to kill off whatever is doing the crud. I'm not sure if that is a good thing to do or not. Right now I'm catching bait every day just before I go fishing.

Anybody got any ideas?

[Slowhand]

Im baffled that product didnt work for you Steve....you must have a new resistant strain of the "fuzzy sweater".

[rushing]

I don't know what to do. I'm thinking of bleaching the tank to kill off whatever is doing the crud. I'm not sure if that is a good thing to do or not. Right now I'm catching bait every day just before I go fishing.

Anybody got any ideas?

I bleach my 5gal bully buckets a few times a a season and have never had any problems with it. Just make sure you rinse well and let dry completely.

[SteveD]

Thanks for the input, Rushing. I was a little bit concerned about the bleach. I'm thinking the bleach should kill off anything in the tank. I will let the filter run through the bleach water so it kills off anything in the filter too. I'll then empty it and let is sit dry for a few days before I refill and start over. That fungus stuff is tough and it kills off bullheads quickly and they are hardy fish.

[pureinsanity]

I don't know what to do. I'm thinking of bleaching the tank to kill off whatever is doing the crud. I'm not sure if that is a good thing to do or not. Right now I'm catching bait every day just before I go fishing.

Anybody got any ideas?

Id go to the fish store and buy tank cleaner. Its safe on the fish and tank. I heard you shouldn't use bleach or soap as it will still be in the tank after its rinsed out well....

Sounds to me either something to do with stuff on the bottom or something with your filter is messed up...

[MinnesnowtaWild]

I don't have a filter on my tank...it's just a Rubbermaid 15 gallon tote with an aerator.

I think I'll just bleach it out and switch the air stone and tubing.

[pureinsanity]

Steve do you have a filter going? Maybe thats the problem. Maybe the water needs to circulate or bacteria builds up and the bullies get the crud.

[rushing]

Bleach evaporates once dried completely so its pretty safe for use on bait tanks.

[Gordie]

Steve dont go full force on the bleach because if it comes back right away you probally will not beable to kill what evr is the problem I've treated a lot of mold problems and learned long ago that a 40/60 or 50/50 bleach/water mixture works very well and if it does come back then you can go stronger and cure the problem that way. if you go full force and dont get it all you really cant go any stronger if you know what I mean.

just my 2 cents

[pureinsanity]

I was reading up on the bleach and aquariums. Recommended was 9 parts water to 1 part bleach. I would probably go more of the 6 parts water 4 bleach. However, that spray stuff from the fish store works really well at cleaning it all up and its safe for the fish so you can just put them right in after your done cleaning..

[MinnesnowtaWild]

I just don't get it though. I had the crud going on when I lived in Mankato about a month or two ago and then I moved and set the same tank up and held about 18 Bullheads in there for over a week with no problems at all and now once I put the new ones in I got this weekend they all of a sudden get the crud again. Is this from the bait tank or is it actually just coming from the Bullies?

[pureinsanity]

i have noticed a few grey spots on the head of the bullies after catching them. I think this is from a reaction of their bodies trying to heal from being hooked. I have yet to get crud. Perhaps its because I recycle my bullheads pretty fast. 10 go in and 10 go out the same day usually. Maybe someone should take a sick bullie in to a pet store maybe they have scene something like that...

[MinnesnowtaWild]

I really need to get in gear and suck it up and make the drive out to the river more often because these Bullheads stay in this tank too long. I need to go through them faster.

[Lowblazah]

I just don't get it though. I had the crud going on when I lived in Mankato about a month or two ago and then I moved and set the same tank up and held about 18 Bullheads in there for over a week with no problems at all and now once I put the new ones in I got this weekend they all of a sudden get the crud again. Is this from the bait tank or is it actually just coming from the Bullies?

Once one gets sick/infected it doesn't take long to spread to the others, especially if its hot and your bait isn't in a temp controlled environment, like a garage in my case. You may have had a sickly one that you missed. If any of my bullies even look questionable, I toss him.

[pureinsanity]

I really need to get in gear and suck it up and make the drive out to the river more often because these Bullheads stay in this tank too long. I need to go through them faster.

I usually have been going twice a week or so in the last month or two. I use to go like 5 times a year. Last week I went 5 days in a row lol...

[MinnesnowtaWild]

Yeah I think my problem is just not fishing enough.

[bobbymalone]

Don't use more than 1 part bleach with 9 parts water (10%). more bleach does NOT mean more effective. The Centers for Disease Control recommends 10% bleach to disinfect medical equipment. Fill it up with 10% bleach and let it sit for 30 minutes to an hour. Don't use stuff with additives or fragrances or whatever. Straight chlorox. Despite what someone else said, RINSE IT OUT, and rinse it out thoroughly, unless you have a dilute sodium thiosulfate solution laying around to deactivate it. If you don't rinse it out the water evaporates but the sodium hypochlorite stays, just like when you evaporate salt water and get salt crystals left over. What do you think those crystals are around the mouth of the bleach bottle?

This will take care of fungal spores and whatnot in your system, but it won't stop a new infection from occurring if the stuff is redeposited in your tank from new bullheads or wherever else it is coming from.

Bleach doesn't work like an antibiotic and you don't need to hit it with a higher dose if it comes back. If it comes back, it's because you either didn't soak long enough to get it all or your water is getting reinoculated with the fungus after treatment. Bleach targets several different things including just about every protein so it's extremely unlikely that the fungus can evolve some sort of resistance. This is very different from antibiotics that target a single function which is relatively easy to evolve resistance to. If it was easy to gain resistance to bleach it wouldn't still be the go to disinfectant for every kind of microbe, be it bacteria, fungus, or virus.

Trust me on this one, everyone is an expert in something, mine just happens to be microbiology.

[mplspug]

Has anyone ever tried methylene blue? It's the go to medicine for tropical fish with fungus issues. I am not sure what the crud is entirely. Having seen it before, I think it is a combination of fungus and bacterial infection. If so, that might inhibit the methylene blues effectiveness.

[wastewaterguru]

Its the stress to the fish that is the major cause. Once their slime layer is compromised from excessive handling or netting, they seem much more susceptible to the crud. I have creek chubs that seem immune to it in my tank and about a dozen to 18 bullheads that are apparantly immune to it as well as they have been in the tank for some time. It's the ones that are getting handled repeatedly that are coming down with the fungus. Don't net them. Handle the bait as gently as possible and that should help.

I have only lost 5 or 6 fish to the crud all year and have only changed the water in my bait once due to a filter pump failure otherwise it would still be unchanged.

[bobbymalone]

malachite green is another treatment for fish infections.

I question how much it is worth spending all that money to treat your bullheads unless you have a TON in your tank. If I just had a couple dozen or something, I would toss them and start over before I spent the money to fix them.

[SteveD]

Don't use more than 1 part bleach with 9 parts water (10%). more bleach does NOT mean more effective. The Centers for Disease Control recommends 10% bleach to disinfect medical equipment. Fill it up with 10% bleach and let it sit for 30 minutes to an hour.

This will take care of fungal spores and whatnot in your system, but it won't stop a new infection from occurring if the stuff is redeposited in your tank from new bullheads or wherever else it is coming from.

Trust me on this one, everyone is an expert in something, mine just happens to be microbiology.

Thanks for the info and I trust you! I just dumped 9.94 gallons of bleach in my 100 gallon tank. I've kept the filter running and the airstones so that they get treated with a bleach bath too. I plan on leaving it in there for a couple of hours and then pump the tank dry and rinse it and the filter out thoroughly. Hopefully when I pump it the sump pump gets a bleach treatment so all the parts and pieces to my system are disinfected.

I thought about just shutting the system down for the rest of the year but this whole thing is kind of a hobby in itself and I'd like to see if I could beat the fungus. I'll throw a few bucks at it just to see if I get any favorable results for next year.

[Larry FlatCaster]

Its the stress to the fish that is the major cause. Once their slime layer is compromised from excessive handling or netting, they seem much more susceptible to the crud. I have creek chubs that seem immune to it in my tank and about a dozen to 18 bullheads that are apparantly immune to it as well as they have been in the tank for some time. It's the ones that are getting handled repeatedly that are coming down with the fungus. Don't net them. Handle the bait as gently as possible and that should help.

I have only lost 5 or 6 fish to the crud all year and have only changed the water in my bait once due to a filter pump failure otherwise it would still be unchanged.

John has hit the nail on the head. The bullies when netted especially in groups, end up poking each other and this allows for fungus to get in and infect them.

Gentle handling is key, and not messing with them unnecessarily, I.E. showing your friends or playing with your bait...

You should see a difference once you take this into consideration.

[Slowhand]

Good point made by John and Larry, another if your into babying them abit more is throwing a treatment in the tank to enhance/protect the coating ala aloe treatment. There comes a point like Bobby said where cost-wise some might say screw it.....I think some of us like the fact of controlling our own inventory/quality of bait and even if it was a wash cost-wise would still do that bait tanks.