Stand Stealers!

[10 poyntr]

Why ANYONE would EVER want to hunt in someone elses treestand is beyond me. Again the 99.9% of hunters in this forum probably wouldn't. Who does not like to scout out an area to find his OWN little niche? If you happen to see a stand in a tree and it bothers you so bad that someone doesn't take it down, call the authorities and let them deal with it! I noticed someone saying this topic is getting way out of hand. NONSENSE! If this is what we're passionate about, so be it! I get along with ALL hunters I've come across in more than 30 years. This sport is so "DEER" to us, we love to talk about it.

[BLACKJACK]

This post has gone on beyond the original 'what do you think about stand stealers' but thats alright, as 10pointer points out, people posting here are passionate about deer and deer hunting.

What I don't like about stands on public property, whether they're permanent or portable stands, once you place them before the season, you're reserving that spot for yourself. People justify that by saying "I scouted out and found that spot". How about the guy that found that spot before or after you? By placing a stand there, you saying that spot is yours.

Several years ago, a week before opening day, I found a great spot in a funnel, I even picked out which tree I was going to sit beside. Was there bright and early, set up my chair, put on my heavy clothes and sit down anticipating the hunt. Pretty soon here comes a flashlight bobbing thru the woods. I get out my flashlight and start flashing it around to let him know that I'm there. He keeps on coming and starts getting into a permanent stand less than 40 yards away!!! When I yelled what the heck are you doing, hes says "I have a stand here". That stand was not there when I scouted seven days before!!!! So at prime time I'm stomping off trying to find a different spot. Needless to say, neither one of us fired a shot that morning. Now he figures that spot is his forever. Is that the way it should be? On public land that belongs to all of us? NOT!!!

I'll have to admit, I had a real hard time resisting the impulse to go back and trash out that stand!!!!

I don't understand the argument that "if you find a stand, anybody can hunt on it, so its ok to build the stand". Who wants to have a confrontation in the woods during deer hunting - something you love to do - with an armed hunter who thinks you're squatting on his stand? 98% of the time its not going to happen and thats what the stand builders are counting on. Does that make it ok to build stands on public land? NO!

[This message has been edited by BLACKJACK (edited 08-27-2004).]

[bigbucks]

Reading all of this just reconfirms that I hope I never have to hunt opening morning of firearms season especially, on public land. I would think if you're bowhunting & you hunt a spot in the evening & come right back the next morning, there certainly wouldn't be anything wrong with leaving your stand there over night, just come plenty early.

Sounds to me lile you almost need to leave a note on a tree to say when you plan to hunt there, whether you put up a stand or not, or you risk coming in & finding someone else setup near by. If nobody puts up a stand until they get there you could easily have 3-4... people bump into each other all thinking they were the only ones planning to hunt that spot.

It doesn't sounds to me like there's no easy answer to how to guarantee hunting public land won't be a fiasco. Yuck!!

[echotrail]

We (4 of us) had similar experiences with too many hunter and perm. tree stands on public lands years ago. We switched to hunting the second week (Orr area) and would not consider hunting 1st week again. I know some of you hunt shorter zones that don't afford the option and to you I wish the best. Hunt safe!

[dustin85]

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[This message has been edited by dustin85 (edited 08-29-2004).]

[Ben1022]

A few comments after reading four pages of this topic...I have had stands stolen on both private and public places. Apparently someone rationalized the taking of them one way or another. If I didn't buy it, it's not mine. Period. If someone wants to use my stand, just ask permission to use the stand or show some courtesy. Have some tact. I cannot fathom putting up and taking down a stand every day for the sake of being in the realm of politically correct. I can guarantee that doing that is going to lead to near zero success and any derrived from it would be luck. Deer are a little sharper than to permit constant noise, regardless of how quiet you are to permit a stand going up and down. Geez, think about it for a while. My stomach absolutely turns thinking about crawling up in someone elses stand, be it private, public or what ever the land status is. Yeah, I've put up a stand on public land and left it for the duration of the season, unless I'm done w/the area. If some other loser wants to use it and I show up; that is for him to rationalize and I'll use my head and find some way to make a hunt happen. I'm not going to lower my self to use someone elses, though.
So, I live by the question..."is it my stand or not"? If not, I cinch up my pants and move on.

[kpj5br]

I've been watching this post for days and keeping my mouth shut, but I think a serious point that needs to be made has not been made yet (point 1 is just my opinion, point 2 is the point I haven't seen made yet).

1. When it comes to tree stands, be it ladder or attached, or any other, I personally think it is morally and ethically fine for a hunter to place one and leave it for the season, and everyone else should leave it alone, or at the very least, use it when it is clear the hunter is not using it that day, and leave it be. That is my moral/ethical opinion, however it is not the law, as has been said here many times. See point 2:

2) Why is it that the law says you don't "own" stands/blinds left unattended on public property? I have a response there as well, and I think the spirit of the law is a good one: For many years, use of public land turned very sour when it came to "stands", which turned into "shacks", which turned into mini-houses, permanent structures, and groups of hunters claiming it as "their land". And not the "shack", the surrounding 40 acres of "public" land!

So the legislature along with the DNR has enough of it (and the complaints that go along with it), and they outright say nothing at all.

Deer hunting in Minnesota is a very emotional subject, more so than I have seen anywhere else (except maybe Wisconsin), if we took the emotion out of it, I don't think these topics would turn into such heated debates.

[ricqik]

All this preaching about being ethical and law abiding citizens in other threads and yet some still break the law and boldly admits it on here. While you at it why not bring 2 or maybe 3 extra gun along with your bow and a crossbow too. It's in the regulation, follow it. I don't like the idea of open and closed fishing season, but it's the law and I have to follow it.

[This message has been edited by ricqik (edited 08-30-2004).]

[lakevet]

Sorry if this is a bit long. Since the 1880's my family has deer hunted in Minnesota. Alot has changed over that time. Growing up I got in on a taste of the way hunting had been for decades. We had "permanent" stands on the farms and adjacent public lands. Many of these stands had been rebuilt countless times as they had been used by many generations of my family. To this day I can take you to trees that my great grandfathers shot deer out of over 100 years ago. These locations had been found as the result of much experience over the years. When my family would log these areas, these special trees would be left, even though it was lost income to do so.When I first started hunting (1970's), if I saw someone in the woods, even on public land, I knew who they were and usually they were a relative. People from the cities hung close to their cabins and we didn't see them farther back. The very few we did see we knew because they had hunted specific stands for 20 or more years. We respected them because they were hunters who knew the woods and worked for their deer. Permanent stands were actually trees with a branch that was easy to stand on or built with nails and hardwood branches from the area. No apartments in the sky. We felt we "owned" the public land as the family had logged (paying the county money for stumpage) and hunted it since white man settled that area, white man being us. It was a wonderful time and I was blessed to be able to experience it. So when people from urban and suburban areas started showing up in "our stands" rather than scouting and building their own stands we were mad. We felt they were lazy thieves.They ruined our traditional way of hunting which was making drives. They would not talk to you, just give you a blank stare. They would hear us start a drive and walk / 4 wheel into the line of our standers and shoot deer out of our drives. One time that it happened, they shot a buck. My cousin who had tracked the buck through the drive, only to find a guy from the cities had shot it after posting in front of one of our standers, had the guy wave the knife in his face while the knife holder yelled that it was public land ,etc. I was right there when it happened. We walked away and reported it. Another time I was driving deer and heard shooting from one of "our" stand locations. 2 bucks had gone by the stander. However, it was someone who didn't know the area and walked in looking for someone's stand to get into. When I got close he yelled at me to "get the **** out of here as this is my stand". I calmly told him that my cousin and I had just rebuilt that stand 2 weeks ago, and if he would climb down and look under the platform he was standing on he would see our initials. Well that cooled him some but he still said he had every right to be in that stand. Legally he did. He was raised with a different ethic than me but the law is the law. I was going to continue driving and told him so and as such didn't need the stand. Well, we talked alittle more and it turns out I had chased 2 bucks by him. He shot at a little one then a big one came and he shot at that. I wished him good luck after asking him to maybe think more about the other guy when hunting. I started into the woods and after 20 yds found a blood trail. Another 60 yds and I was standing over a 13 pt buck bigger than anything I have shot to this day. It was dead. To be honest if it had twitched I would have shot it and kept it. But it didn't. So I went back to the guy. He was down on the ground looking for the blood trail of the other buck. He couldn't find it. I showed him where that blood trail started. Then I took him to the blood trail of the bigger buck. When I showed him his buck, he finally got off his high horse and said thanks. He also said he had come into the woods with the purpose of finding someone's stand to use. I told him not using other peoples stands would be thanks enough and to be sure and get the other buck. He said he would. I never saw him again and a cousin found the dead second buck (a spike) 40 yds from were the blood trail started. It was 2 days later. The guy never got the other buck. I was 18 at the time and the guy was in his 40's. I should have gotten ID on him and reported him. The rifle season kept getting worse on public land so we removed our permanent stands and went with portables that we put up and take down each drive or sit. We do the same on our farms. That was 15 years ago. Extra work but worth it. For the young and older hunters who can't put up the stands others go with to set them up. We have fewer hunters on the public, less tresspass on our farms, and they get less deer as they have to "do it on their own" as we are no longer "guiding" for them. So guys and gals, I am asking you to do the same. Don't use other peoples stands even if legal, don't use permanent stands on public land, do the extra work to put up and take down your portables, get info and report violations, and above all keep your cool and be polite. Remember, we are all in this together.Thanks for listening to my 2 cents.

Be sure to take a kid hunting!

lakevet

[BLACKJACK]

Interesting post lakevet!

As someone else has said, deer hunting brings out the passion in people, and also the craziness and rudeness and classlessness that we're all trying to escape from during our regular everyday lives. Too many hunters on a limited number of spots doesn't help. And even if you think that you've walked way back in the bush and found a spot that nobody else will find, eventually someone will, or have already. We just have to be courteous and do onto others as we want them to do to us.

[Bogsucker]

Yeah very well written post but, Just because someone lives(owns property) next to Public land and uses the land more than others it gives them NO more right to use any of that PUBLIC land than anyone else. If you don't like hunting where others also hunt and have the exact same rights as you, don't hunt there. If you want to put up a stand with your initials, put it on your own land not OURS.

It still boggles my mind to think that some people believe they have the right to pre-empt the use of PUBLIC property!!! Granted, if someone is parked where I'd like to hunt or if I see someone else in a stand on public property I'll avoid the area, but to not hunt an area of PUBLIC land because of a stand???

[Bad Moon]

Although it is illegal to place perm. stands on some public property, FM does not encourage the destruction of property. You may repost your point if you would like but take it down a notch.

[This message has been edited by jlm (edited 09-02-2004).]

[barebackjack]

So, in retrospect, did it make you feel good to trash something that was not yours, or anyones for that matter?? I guess Ill stop there as I wouldnt want to sound like a jerk

[This message has been edited by barebackjack (edited 09-01-2004).]

[30 inch eyes]

sorry badmoon, but if you didn't put a drop in it's tracks kill shot it's not really YOUR deer yet, even though I would have given you the deer. We had the same thing happen to us a few years ago so I know the feeling(they used the line that they didn't know we were traking it.) As for permenant stands on public property I say NO it is trying to claim a piece of public property for yourself. I also wolud do away with any stands with enclosed sides, I don't feel it's in the name of fair chase, if the deer can't see you move. If you want to hunt deer in MN then be prepared to get cold or hunt in TX

[30 inch eyes]

Hey exterme did you ever get your stand back

[wannafishto]

the point has been made that some hunters are "claiming" a spot as their own if they have a permanent stand in an area of public land. Unfortunately, have observed this to be true. I also feel that this behavior is even being expanded to include vehicles parked on roads by the area being hunted. some hunters feel it is a "first come forst served" kind of thing and that if another hunter(s) drive by and see a vehicle parked there, they should assume the spot is "taken" and keep driving. I just think it is so unfortunate that the experience of hunting has to be so diminshed by people who think this way. My father and I hunt public land and I would rather meet the others hunting there so we can all share the opportunity that we "non land owning" hunters still have available to us. Not too many years ago, my father fell when the steps on an old permanent stand broke and he seriously injured himself. He managed to make his way back to the truck, but was unable to see so was honking the horn. I did not make the connection. If it was not for another hunter nearby that we had introduced ourselves to, my father would have sat there for hours waiting for me. The other hunter came and got me and my father got to the ER much faster thanks to him. That hunter took time out of his hunt to find out what was happening. I did not make the connection to the horn being dad because he had told me he was going to an area North of me, in which case he had to go by me to get back to the truck. Turned out he had gone North, saw another hunter in the area, so left and went East so he would not interfere with the other hunter on "public" land in the permanent stand. there could be so many good times shared by hunters instead of poor ones due to bad manners and pure disrespect.
funny how most hunters wouldn't dream of helping themselves to a portable stand left in the woods, but will use a perm they didn't build. Obviously, neither can be helped, but we don't see people walking up to a bus stop and fighting with someone they don't even know because they want to sit on the end of the bench the other person is on. doesn't matter who built the bench. but if I put up my captains chair to wait for the bus, my butt is gonna be in it! Let's just leave the perms that are left to the b*** heads with the poor manners. Last thing I want is to come up against some angry guy/gal in the woods when they have a gun in their hands.
If dad and I come across another hunter in any type of stand nowadays, we apologize for walking up, introduce ourselves and offer to do a little round-a-bout push/drive for them. Maybe someday we'll end up making a new friend. I hold out hope.

[10 poyntr]

Who in this forum ever "claimed" their area by putting up a stand? I never heard anyone say that!! We all seem to realize that we take a "calculated" chance of putting up stands and finding them empty when we get to them. Your right, nobody has a "right" to reserve public land. And we don't claim to! The astute hunter gets scouting early in the year, finds his "spot", NOT staking a claim, and finds a tree that will likely suit him. Does ANYONE take into consideration that his stand might be found? Of course, so be more diligent in selecting your "area". If I took my kid to a park to play and find the slides and swings full, I'll move on! Find another park! Hunting public land is not rocket science! I'm envious if I come up on a "secret" stand area, only to find it already having a stand there! Somebody beat me to the punch! I'll move on. The guy in this forum that tears down stands? Why? Move on. I don't kick the old man off a public park bench!!

[ricqik]

The point is if you hang your stand the day before you hunt the area then you are reserving the spot regards of what your thoughts are. By placing your stand there you are basically forcing other hunters to hunt a different area. Its also illegal so quit breaking the law. You want htat spot get in there ealry and set up. None of this talk about making too much noise in the moring to set and it ruins the hunt, it 2hrs before shooting light, you can't shoot anything yet till 30 minutes before sunrise anyways. If the deers are already there when you get there 2hrs early, chances are they won't be there when light comes anyways. QUIT BREAKING THE LAW. Simple as that.

[10 poyntr]

RicQik, Nobody is "forcing" anyone to hunt elsewhere-Remember, it is public land! I don't get on a bullhorn when I fish a lake like Big Winnie when there is a herd af boats in an area, and tell them to fish eleswhere! I MOVE ON! So what! If putting a stand up before the season really sticks in your craw, then report it to the DNR! Yeah, it may be illegal, but so is 65 in a 60, or 80 in 60 like most cars. I would love for ALL HUNTERS to put their stands up in the pre-dawn darkness everyday, and then count the number of injuries it would create while climbing and assembling! talk about making noise won't disturb the deer? Pre-dawn noise is the worst time to wreak havoc with the deer!

[Roosterslayer05]

Wannafish- you say you dont like it when people park on the road to "reserve" the spot. Thats nice to talk to the other hunters on the land and tell each other where your going, i do that all the time but when a couple parties are already hunting the same area and they all got there first, there are multiple cars in the parking lot and the area isent that big the next person that comes along should find another spot instead of makeing a spot overcrowded, there is allot of spots out there and people dont need to all hunt the same ones.

[wannafishto]

We personally don't mind if we see another vihicle in the area we are goin to hunt, actually, its nice to know someone is in the area - for safety reasons. I just meant that some people seem to feel that if they got there first that others should move on. I think it is too bad that we all just can't get along. No body has any right to remove or damage a stand that isn't theirs, permanent or otherwise, but we all have a right to "be" on public land. I guess it's like enjoying a football game. Alot of people want to participate and be in the stands at the staduim. Others don't like the crowds so they watch from home "privately". I think maybe the so called "sportspersons" who get territorial over any certain area of public land need to enjoy their hunting experience via the couch and a dvd! leaving the "public" land hunting experience more enjoyable for the rest of us. And hey, if dad and I run into any of you during the season, I'd like to invite you to the truck for a cup of coffee and a good deer hunting story! Anybody like cream and sugar? Last year while we were enjoying coffee, a nice 8 pt'r ran across the road and waved at us!

[BLACKJACK]

10 pointer, in your post at 10:49 you say that people aren't 'claiming' the land when they put up a stand, but then later in your post you state that people should 'move on' when they encounter a stand. Isn't that claiming/reserving that spot on PUBLIC land?

[Ben1022]

I think there is a fundamental difference between those that perceive putting a stand up early and those that believe in putting a stand up each and every use...that difference being wanting to hunt w/the opportunity of success and simply sitting in the woods to be outside. Don't try to fool yourselves or anyone else thinking putting your stand up 2 hours before daylight is the least bit wise. I'm not going to go on w/that explanation and if I have to, my point won't ever be made with you.
On to another area...what is w/the big box stands be it private or public? That has to be the ugliest structure I've ever seen any hunter use. Guess they must've got their start in Texas. If so, they ought to "cowboy up" and get used to being outside. If you want to camp in a box, stay home in your garage...or better yet, build one in your own trees and see what others, including yourself, thinks.
Bottom line, early birds get worms. There is a finite number of hunting locations and if you have the tenacity to get out, scout and find a location where the deer are moving and set a stand...do it. And if someone is "too late" to get "your pre-empted spot", then they have the opportunity to get up a little earlier and find another place.
My question is what happens when two or more hunters find the right place and show up the morning at the same time? Since neither of them "pre-emptively" put up their stands, do they each get a spot in the tree to be fair? I'm thinking you should already know where you're going and already plan on the idea that someone else is already hunting nearby and have a 2nd plan instead of sitting in the woods whining about someone "pre-emptively taking "your spot". Yes, it has happened to me and vs. whining about it, I'm on to higher ground.
Obviously those that put up and take stands down every morning and evening (which I HIGHLY doubt) are not going to change other peoples minds, which leaves them to either get off of dead center and get out early or find other locations or call the DNR and spend more time being impractical and doing less hunting.

[EXTREME]

I would like to direct this post to Ricqik. Believe it or not, it is not illegal to leave your portable stand in the woods overnight. It is illegal however to leave it overnight on WMA and State park land. I assume by your replies that you hunt one of these types of land. Please don't misinform everybody else that they are breaking the law! Because they are not. Secondly; someone asked me if I got the stand back...I have not seen my suspect yet to talk to him so no, I have not got it back. Some of these other stories have been pretty cool, and it is great to see other hunters helping out and being nice. Believe it or not, I am one of those people. I have never cussed out someone for sitting in "my" spot. I just move on. If someone moves in, I may be chapped, but I say nothing and move on. That is what being a sportsman is all about.

[sheepheadslayer]

As everyone cries and whines about who is reserving what and someone is breaking the law and what not. How would you all like to be in a different state with a 1/4 of the public land to hunt or even less. We are blessed with all these hunting opportunties and everyone seems to have something bad to say. There are millions of acres to hunt. Fighting over something that the next person has the same right too is totally stupid. When i was 12 years of old we had the best lake to hunt ducks on. A perfect grassy point with great cover. At that time you may have had 1 maybe 2 people hunt the lake. Which was fine with 2 nice bays and a grass island all away from each other. Well as the next few years came it was a competition to hunt the lake. My father hunted it all his life with no problems with other hunters. Well by the time i was 15 in order to hunt the lake you had to get there 3 hours before shooting time. Last time we attempted to hunt it there was truck at the access with the trailer in the water like it was unloading. Well we sat and waited and soon found out that they were in the truck sleeping and were not unloading. They finally woke up and started to get unloaded. It was a good 20 min. before the were out of the way. It was from then on that we had to find a different place to go. Now we have even better hunting and less people. We drive past the access on the way out opening morning and there has been up to 15 truck and trailers at there on a lake that is no more than 400 acres. Sometimes moving on is better than competing. Sorry so long just my opinion. And by the way i do not agree with RESERVING YOUR SPOT by putting your stand up in a area or leaving your trailer in water so no one else can get in.