Mauer

[Windy City Walleye Hunter]

You guys are MAKING MY POINT!

Walleye guy says, "While Fisk was a great catcher. Mauer will end up being better."

Note the tense, if Fisk was a great catcher and is retired it stands to reason that he still is a great catcher since he does not play. You go on to say Mauer will end up being better. Future tense that is totally unpredictable, just ask the families of Thurmun Munson or Roberto Clemente or even Gayle Sayers.

My point is that I belive that while Mauer "may" someday prove to be better as his career enters into its mid state and end state that as of today he would not be the "greatest catcher the game has ever seen". I think I got you guys on this one, sorry!

[Walleye Guy]

The tense in my sentence was meant to reflect what will be remembered when Mauer is done playing the game. If you compare Mauer to Fisk after they both played 5 years Mauer wins hands down. If Mauer continues at this pace for even 10 more years his stats and place in baseball will be far above Fisk despite Fisk being a Hall of Famer.

Tiger vs. Jack?? I don't even see how that applies to this. Tiger and Jack are the two best golfers to ever play. Very few would dispute that. While Mauer will go down as one of the top two catchers ever (Bench would be the other) he isn't one of the top guys to ever play baseball. Top 100 or maybe top 50 yes. Best or second best? I doubt it.

[zamboni]

"greatest catcher the game has ever seen".

Ok, he will be. I stand corrected.

[Walleye Guy]

Fisk isn't the best catcher in the Hall of Fame or of all time. Johnny Bench was a much better catcher both behind and at the plate. His stats in 17 years are equivalent or better than Fisk's in 24 years:

BA Fisk .269 Bench .267

HR Fisk 376 Bench 389

RBI Fisk 1330 Bench 1376

All-Star Fisk 11 Bench 14

MVP Fisk 0 Bench 2

WS MVP Fisk 0 Bench 1

Gold Gloves Fisk 1 Bench 9

Fielding % Fisk .988 Bench .990

Post Season Appearances Fisk 2 Bench 6

Fisk was certainly good. However he wasn't even the best of his era.

[Windy City Walleye Hunter]

Again you guys are making my POINT! Please stop now, you are just beating a dead horse. Right now Fisk would be a better lifetime catcher than Mauer since his career is already in Cooperstown. End of arguement. The future is just that for Mauer the future but as of today I would not say that Joe Mauer IS the greatest catcher of all time.

[SledNeck]

You guys are MAKING MY POINT!

Walleye guy says, "While Fisk was a great catcher. Mauer will end up being better."

Note the tense, if Fisk was a great catcher and is retired it stands to reason that he still is a great catcher since he does not play. You go on to say Mauer will end up being better. Future tense that is totally unpredictable, just ask the families of Thurmun Munson or Roberto Clemente or even Gayle Sayers.

My point is that I belive that while Mauer "may" someday prove to be better as his career enters into its mid state and end state that as of today he would not be the "greatest catcher the game has ever seen". I think I got you guys on this one, sorry!

Um

didnt clemente play 18 seasons?

[Walleye Guy]

I give up. In 12 years we can compare notes on Mauer vs. Fisk. I feel pretty good about Mauer's chances.

I don't think anybody said Mauer is the greatest catcher ever. Could he be? Maybe. Time will tell. All I know is that Carlton Fisk isn't the greatest catcher ever. Was he good? Yes. Was he great? Yes. Best ever. No. The guy behind the plate for the Big Red Machine was better.

[Mudcutter]

Micky COchrane of the A's who hit .320 for his life,, has to be in the mix. .320 compared to .267 or .269 is a WORLD of differnce over a lifetime. Everyone is forgetting about PUdge. Look at his #'s agst Bench and Fisk.

[zamboni]

Plus Pudge rarely misses a game. One of the main reasons why I wish the Twins would have looked into getting him here as a DH and parttime catcher.

[delta dude]

You guys have forgotten Yogi Berra. Lifetime avg. .285, 2120 games, 2150 hits, 358 hr. 15 time all star, mvp 3 times, and 14 world series. When Boy Joey closes in on these records, if he does then rank him as one of the best.

[SledNeck]

Mike Piazza March 2009

Reportedly Used: Unknown

The Story: Piazza reportedly admitted that he used performance enhancing drugs to at least one unnamed reporter. Long rumored to have used steroids, at least two former players were quoted as saying they were sure that Piazza used. Former New York Times reporter, Murray Chass, said that he had been aware of Piazza's severe back acne (a common side-effect of using steroids) and that it cleared up in 2004 when MLB instituted its first testing program with penalties. Piazza was named most significantly in Jeff Pearlman's book, The Rocket That Fell To Earth.

Ivan Rodriguez February 2005

Reportedly Used: Steroids (Deca-Durabolin and/or Winstrol, Testosterone), Human Growth Hormone

The Story: In Juiced, Jose Canseco claims to have educated Rodriguez, along with Rafael Palmeiro and Juan Gonzalez, about steroids when they were teammates in Texas. He subsequently claims to have acquired steroids on behalf of all three before personally injecting each of them ‘many times.’ Canseco says all three used a combination of HGH and steroids (Deca-Durabolin and/or Winstrol) and ‘a small dose’ of injectable testosterone.

[elkrivermn]

Just to set the record straight. I have used steroids in the past and that is the only reason I caught 165 rainbow trout on Carp lake out in BC.

[SledNeck]

why would you waste steroids on rainbow trout fishing?????

[UMC]

Pudge is one of the guys who I look at and say he most certainly had to have been on roids. He's 5'9" 190 lbs now; I believe they said he lost like 20-30 lbs the year they started testing. For that little guy to hit 35 HR's in 1999 and 27 in 2000 (in only 91 games), in the heat that he played Catcher in Texas, something had to have been going on. Plus he played with Juan Gonzalez (obvious user), Ken Caminitti, Canseco, Palmeiro...pretty obvious.

[Windy City Walleye Hunter]

Walleye Guy,

You must have missed a few entries of this thread. Here is a quote from Zamboni from Sept 5th on this thread.

"Mauer is a better catcher however, and overall Mauer is the best catcher the game has ever known, but don't say Piazza was bad- he wasn't."

That is what is keeping this God Awfully boring thread alive. I just threw up Pudge Fisk as ONE of the catchers in baseball who is better than Mauer right now since he only has 5 seasons under his belt. I NEVER said Fisk was the greatest as I know of a handful of others who could be thrown into the mix.

I mearly used him to illustrate my point which is falling on many deaf ears here in Twinky Land. Mauer MAY one day get there but HE AIN'T THERE YET!

[zamboni]

So he has to be retired before he can crowned the king? People called Earnhardt Sr the greatest before he retired (in his case he was killed) so why can't you do that with Mauer?

[SledNeck]

Walleye Guy,

You must have missed a few entries of this thread. Here is a quote from Zamboni from Sept 5th on this thread.

"Mauer is a better catcher however, and overall Mauer is the best catcher the game has ever known, but don't say Piazza was bad- he wasn't."

That is what is keeping this God Awfully boring thread alive. I just threw up Pudge Fisk as ONE of the catchers in baseball who is better than Mauer right now since he only has 5 seasons under his belt. I NEVER said Fisk was the greatest as I know of a handful of others who could be thrown into the mix.

I mearly used him to illustrate my point which is falling on many deaf ears here in Twinky Land. Mauer MAY one day get there but HE AIN'T THERE YET!

Okay then

Emmitt Smith is better than Walter Payton

right?

[Windy City Walleye Hunter]

Zamboni,

I only have four words left for you and they are from a wise man named Ron White....You Can't Fix Stupid!

End of arguement. I would venture to say that in a poll taken in every state other than Minnesota that if you asked people to name the GREATEST CATCHER OF ALL TIME in baseball that the name of Joe Mauer would come up about as often as AJ! You just can't see the forest for the trees can you? All you have to do is change your tense and everything you say MAY be correct. I guess if Tyler Flowers of the Sox who is a rookie call up goes to bat in his first game and goes 4 for 4 at the plate and throws out 3 of 3 runners attempting to steal then we can extrapolate that into the GREATEST CATCHER OF ALL TIME, right?

Get real dude, I know you are not that dense.

[Mudcutter]

Windy-- the point is,, not one catcher in the hisory of MLB has had a start to MLB career like MAUER. Some have had more HR's yes, more RBi's yes--- but not AVG,HITS, OBP. And he's won 2 (maybe 3) silver slugger awards, never done by a catcher, in the first 5-6 years. Best catcher ever?? Not now,, but as each AB goes by with a hit or BB,, you're looking at JOe MAuer. Helps, also that he is so young.

Yogi Berra-- that's like comparing JOhn Buck to Jorge Posada.

Yogi Berra played on some the of the greatest teams sports has ever seen. Yogi was a good hitter, but avg/ catcher at best.

Think of what MAuer, or AJ or PUdge would have hit with the Bronx Bombers??

That's why guys like Micky Cohchrane and Gabby hartnett have to be looked at in the top 5.--- DEF added.

[SledNeck]

Zamboni,

I only have four words left for you and they are from a wise man named Ron White....You Can't Fix Stupid!

End of arguement. I would venture to say that in a poll taken in every state other than Minnesota that if you asked people to name the GREATEST CATCHER OF ALL TIME in baseball that the name of Joe Mauer would come up about as often as AJ! You just can't see the forest for the trees can you? All you have to do is change your tense and everything you say MAY be correct. I guess if Tyler Flowers of the Sox who is a rookie call up goes to bat in his first game and goes 4 for 4 at the plate and throws out 3 of 3 runners attempting to steal then we can extrapolate that into the GREATEST CATCHER OF ALL TIME, right?

Get real dude, I know you are not that dense.

O really?

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&s...mp;oq=&aqi=

[Windy City Walleye Hunter]

Thank you Mud! And I fully agree with you. Best ever? NOT YET! That was my only point that these intellectually challenged people just don't seem to get.

[SledNeck]

Keep up the insults